The Responsorial Psalm ruins the flow of the liturgy

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Gotta punch it up, as the “guitar hero” bible church across the street is gaining members! Seriously, there is serious misunderstanding of what is occurring during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. I didn’t know for years after entering, perhaps a decade. Combined with a chronic failure of catechesis is an apparent lack of inquisitiveness on the part of parishioners.

Liturgical abuse is but one of the abuse scandals.They took time to develop and they will take time to eradicate.
Yes, ongoing adult catechesis is almost unknown around these parts. The person in charge of it is almost universally disliked in the parish. Her job is to put on a monthly “gathering.” Maybe a half dozen show. They get upset that so few participate. They won’t acknowledge that in large part it’s because they are in charge and the faithful dislike them.

I really don’t think there is a “lack of inquisitiveness on the part of parishioners.” More like a realization that nothing is going to change.

They will take a long time to eradicate. It threatens turf and that’s always a big problem.
 
I would give the music people and the priest the benefit of the doubt until I talked to them about it.

Our organist, volunteer, wanted to do that because she doesn’t know a lot of the psalms and we don’t have a cantor who can sing them. She is an older lady, the only one in the parish who can play the organ, and she isn’t trained in music or liturgy. She is a wonderful person, she didn’t know that it wasn’t permitted under the rubrics. We explained it and now if she can’t play something a particular week, the reader just reads it.
 
Just use the Gradual from the Roman Gradual. It’s simpler. The responsorial psalm is one of the clunkier innovations of the Novus Ordo.
 
Just use the Gradual from the Roman Gradual. It’s simpler. The responsorial psalm is one of the clunkier innovations of the Ordinary Form.
That would be wrong to do as it’s not allowed, just as a song in place of the responsorial Psalm is not allowed. FWIW, nothing “clunky” about the responsorial Psalm.
 
Wrong. The Gradual is quite permissible, as made very clear in the 2002 Missale Romanum.
 
I did speak to them. The choir director is a professional accompanist so he certainly can play the appropriate music and not just hymns. I hope I can express this without seeming like I am criticizing the priest and people (because I can’t know what is in their hearts, and certainly if they believe what they are doing is fine, which they do even though it is not, again, it’s not like they are deliberately and knowingly doing wrong, so again, I am not criticizing or judging motives), but the thing is, I have been told that I am not supposed to be questioning but ‘participating’, and that THIS is the way that things are done here because, “This is what we do here”. It is said in a very pleasant way, but a very final way, “This is right because this is what we do.” In fact I was told not to even bother looking at 'the front of the song book" (IOW, not to even look the first part of the missalette which gives the liturgy, the readings, etc.), but just to sing where the people sing, as this is ‘active participation’.

Many in the parish make rude remarks but go ‘to fulfill their obligation’. I want to fulfill my obligation but I don’t want to make ‘rude remarks’ (meaning, instead of saying, “There’s Father McLeftwing showing off again”, which remarks were made in my hearing though not to me, I would say, to Father himself, “Father, I really wish we could say the Creed at Mass, I really like the feeling of participation of all us joining in”), but it does get tiresome to hear, “Now, just come to Mass with your heart open for surprises and don’t be rigid and formulaic, we’re all about participation here”. IOW, it’s a nonanswer that puts me in the position of either looking like I’m arguing if I pursue it further, or that I’ve HAD the answer and just need to do what I’m told. So I’m praying. And hoping!
 
I agree with a lot of what you’ve said except for the psalm being sung in the choir. I think as scripture, it does belong at the ambo. I directed my choir for 11 years and never had a problem with it being a “performance.” It should be proclaimed in a reverent way with no theatrics.
 
I agree with a lot of what you’ve said except for the psalm being sung in the choir. I think as scripture, it does belong at the ambo. I directed my choir for 11 years and never had a problem with it being a “performance.” It should be proclaimed in a reverent way with no theatrics.
That’s not what I said. The RS should indeed be chanted/sung/read from the ambo. A substitute song in place of the RS which is the norm at my parish is what I was speaking about. The substitute song should come from the nave, not the ambo.
 
Agree with you Clare. Our Cantor sings the Responsorial Psalm from a Lecturn of to the side by the organ. And yes, it should be sung as written.
 
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It’s supposed to be sung. It’s really awkward to have someone run down from the choir loft to go to the ambo to sing.
 
Yes it is. Speaking as somebody who has been a cantor, choir member, organist, etc., I found it was easiest for everybody to have a strong singer sing FROM the choir loft, just before Mass started, the refrain, a couple of times to get everybody used to how it sounded, then to have them announce the page in the missal that the Psalm was on (because we would use the antiphons that were printed for that Sunday), and then go on with Mass (unless there was something else people needed to practice, such as a new setting for the Holy Holy, which we would usually do for 4 weeks before we even started to sing it at Mass). When it was time, the singer (we got to where we preferred not to say cantor. It would be one of the regular choir members, not always the same one as sometimes the setting would be better for alto and sometimes for soprano) would sing the line, and the people would repeat. Did everybody come in dead on time all the time, no. Does everybody come in dead on time when somebody is standing up in the front of the church swinging his or her arms madly? No. But you know, over time, people start getting used to how things sound, even if they don’t read music. And enough people read music or learn fast so that there are people throughout the church who are coming in ‘on time’ and bring others next to them ‘along with them’. It’s so much less visually distracting, and it moves along better as well.
 
I really appreciate Catholic churches that have a lectern for the first two readings, the RS and the announcements and a separate pulpit for proclaiming the Gospel and the homily.

The Church now prefers the all-in-one ambo, but I think the older style really emphasized Gospels which I appreciated.

Years ago my parish’s “liturgy committee” talked the pastor into allowing the OT reading and the NT epistle to be read from the pews – “just like the do in synagogues.” That fight actually involved the bishop and metaphorically, it was bloody.
 
Just use the Gradual from the Roman Gradual. It’s simpler. The responsorial psalm is one of the clunkier innovations of the Novus Ordo.
That would be wrong to do as it’s not allowed, just as a song in place of the responsorial Psalm is not allowed. FWIW, nothing “clunky” about the responsorial Psalm.
Wrong. The Gradual is quite permissible, as made very clear in the 2002 Missale Romanum.
Yeah, but it’s very clunky.
LOL!! That’s like an overhead smash in tennis. One can only stand by and watch. No possible return.
 
Wrong. The Gradual is quite permissible, as made very clear in the 2002 Missale Romanum
You are quite correct. I go to Mass at a Benedictine abbey, of which I am in fact an oblate. The Mass is always in Gregorian chant with Latin propers and Latin/Greek ordinary. The responsorial psalm is never used, the Gradual is used. Today’s gradual specified by the Graduale Romanum was in fact Christus Factus Est from Palm Sunday, which is very, very beautiful.
 
The ambo is the proper item and term.
A lectern may be used for announcements.
Singing from the loft eliminates all the arm waving which is never necessary. If people in Mass have not learned by now that you are supposed to sing the refrain…then, …well…that’s sad.
 
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Yeah, but it’s very clunky.
Hardly.

But it is not for the faint of heart. Normally the choir sings the first part, and only the schola the more difficult verse.

The reason it is not often used as it is almost impossible, in a parish setting, for the assembly to participate in its singing, It is also very difficult for anything but the most experienced choirs. The Graduale Simplex retains the responsorial psalm with a Gregorian antiphon and psalm sung on one of the Gregorian modes, it is easier, but still probably beyond the grasp of most parish assemblies.

In a monastic setting it’s different. The conventual Mass is for the community, not the faithful in the pew. The latter are welcome to attend but one must keep in mind that it is the Mass of the monastic community. They are trained in the finer points of liturgy and chant, most laity aren’t (I sing in a schola myself so the Gradual is not a handicap for me, most of the time, though there are some tongue-twister Graduals; the Mode V Graduals are the most common and IMHO the easiest, in spite of a change of key between the antiphon and verse in most cases).

One is not likely to encounter the Gradual in a parish setting, simply because it is too difficult for the average parish choir; the Gradual and Offertories tend to be the most difficult chants. Our own schola does the Gradual from time to time, but usually we do the responsorial psalm on a Gregorian tone with antiphon in French on a Gregorian mode.

There is nothing wrong with the latter, and it certainly does not disrupt the flow of the liturgy.

Much as I love Gregorian chant, I find some folks here have unrealistic expectations of an average parish assembly and choir.
 
The ambo is the proper item and term.
That’s axiomatic.
A lectern may be used for announcements.
It may also be used for the OT reading, the RP and the NT epistle in older churches set-up with both a lectern and a pulpit. I’m well aware of the GIRM language on this matter. Employing a separate lectern and pulpit would not invalidate or Mass, nor make it any less licit.
 
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…Much as I love Gregorian chant, I find some folks here have unrealistic expectations of an average parish assembly and choir.
That may be so, but I am continually amazed at how teeny-tiny Eastern Catholic parishes (20ish-70ish members) always seem to have a ready supply of able chanters to chant the reading in plainchant. I have absolutely no question that if their tradition was specifically Gregorian chant, that they would have a number of Gregorian chanters ready as well.

I think it’s about desire, expectations simply making the effort.
 
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