The Resurrection

[Javl]

We know from scripture that man is to die but once and that the resurrection comes at the end of time.

But what about the death and resurrection of Lazarus, Naim’s son, and the daughter of Jairus? All three had died and were resurrected by Jesus. They were not resuscitated.
They must have had to die again. Are they now subject to a second resurrection…or?

This is something to ponder on. Your thoughts on this would be much appreciated.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Anna_Scott]

We know from scripture that man is to die but once and that the resurrection comes at the end of time.

But what about the death and resurrection of Lazarus, Naim’s son, and the daughter of Jairus? All three had died and were resurrected by Jesus. They were not resuscitated.
They must have had to die again. Are they now subject to a second resurrection…or?

This is something to ponder on. Your thoughts on this would be much appreciated.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Javl,

Great question!

Hebrews 9:27 says man is appointed once to die, and after that comes judgment.

Hebrews Chapter 9 (ESV):
25 Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, 26 for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, 28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

This does not appear to be the case for those Christ raised from the dead during his ministry. They lived, died, were resurrected by Christ, and died again, to await the final resurrection–unless, something else happened, that I am not aware of.

I have had discussions with other forum members about Ezekiel 37, and was told it is not to be interpreted literally, because there is only one resurrection of the dead.

Ezekiel 37 gives an allegorical prophecy of the “valley of dry bones,” followed by an interpretation. Why would the interpretation of an allegorical prophecy, also, be allegorical? That would mean: allegorical prophecy, followed by allegorical interpretation-requiring, yet another, interpretation. That doesn’t make sense to me. God spoke to the whole house of Israel saying, “I will open your graves and raise you from your graves.” That seems very straightforward.

Ezekiel 37: 11Then he said to me, "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. Behold, they say, ‘Our bones are dried up, and our hope is lost; we are indeed cut off.’ 12 Therefore prophesy, and say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will open your graves and raise you from your graves, O my people. And I will bring you into the land of Israel. 13 And you shall know that I am the LORD, when I open your graves, and raise you from your graves, O my people.

There is a similar issue in Matthew 27. Some forum members have said the saints weren’t really resurrected-that this is allegorical. Yet every other part of Matthew 27 is usually interpreted literally.

51 And behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. And the earth shook, and the rocks were split. 52 The tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, 53 and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

Did Elijah literally raise the child from the dead, as told in 1 Kings?
**1 Kings 17: ** 21 Then he stretched himself upon the child three times and cried to the LORD, “O LORD my God, let this child’s life come into him again.” 22And the LORD listened to the voice of Elijah. And the life of the child came into him again, and he revived.

Did Elisha literally raise a child from the dead as told in 2 Kings 4:32-36?

Was the dead man, thrown into the grave of Elisha, literally resurrected from the dead?
2 Kings 13: 20 So Elisha died, and they buried him. Now bands of Moabites used to invade the land in the spring of the year. 21 And as a man was being buried, behold, a marauding band was seen and the man was thrown into the grave of Elisha, and as soon as the man touched the bones of Elisha, he revived and stood on his feet.

I don’t really understand how Christ’s resurrection is literal, and all other resurrection accounts and resurrection prophecies are allegorical. I realize that “tradition” plays a serious role in interpretation of Scripture. (Though Protestant, I do not accept Sola Scriptura.)

Javl, as you can see, I have many questions, but no answers. I hope someone can shed some light on this very important issue.

Anna

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

Lazarus rose from the dead, only to die again. After the resurrection, there is no death.

 

[uxordepp]

I think it is also good to remember that God can do whatever He wants to prove a point.

I am thinking of the ‘Good Thief’ who was told by Christ that he would that day be in Paradise with Christ himself, even though he had not gone through the ‘norm’ of baptism.

Deacon Ed; to clarify what you said, were these people not actually resurrected, or were they not actually dead when they appeared to be resurrected?

 

[Anna_Scott]

Lazarus rose from the dead, only to die again. After the resurrection, there is no death.

Deacon Ed,

Do you see being raised from the dead as different from a resurrection?

Anna

 

[Javl]

Lazarus rose from the dead, only to die again. After the resurrection, there is no death.

Can you please explain? It sounds like an ambiguous statement. Thank you.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Anna_Scott]

I think it is also good to remember that God can do whatever He wants to prove a point.

I agree.

I am thinking of the ‘Good Thief’ who was told by Christ that he would that day be in Paradise with Christ himself, even though he had not gone through the ‘norm’ of baptism.

I’ve never quite understood the promise to the thief. Jesus said, “. . . .today you will be with me in Paradise. . .”

Yet, after the resurrection, Jesus said to Mary, “Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. . .”

If Jesus had not yet ascended to the Father; how was the thief with Jesus, in Paradise, the day of the crucifixion? I must be missing something.

Luke 23 (ESV): 42 And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” 43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”

**John 20: ** 16 Jesus said to her, “Mary.” She turned and said to him in Aramaic, “Rabboni!” (which means Teacher). 17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” 18 Mary Magdalene went and announced to the disciples, “I have seen the Lord”—and that he had said these things to her.

EEK! I’m off topic, already. My apologies, Javl.

Deacon Ed; to clarify what you said, were these people not actually resurrected, or were they not actually dead when they appeared to be resurrected?

Great question. I asked Deacon Ed a similar question regarding whether or not he sees “being raised from the dead” as different from a “resurrection.”

Anna

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

In being raised from the dead, one is restored to earthly life with all its frailties. After the resurrection, one will have a glorified body, and will never die. So, yes, it is different. Lazarus died, and so did the daughter of Jarius die again, after being restored to earthly life by Jesus.

 

[Anna_Scott]

In being raised from the dead, one is restored to earthly life with all its frailties. After the resurrection, one will have a glorified body, and will never die. So, yes, it is different. Lazarus died, and so did the daughter of Jarius die again, after being restored to earthly life by Jesus.

I appreciate your comments.

I looked up Resurrection in the Catholic Encyclopedia. The initial definition of Resurrection is “The rising again from the dead, the resumption of life.” This sounds like it would apply to the Biblical accounts of those raised from the dead.

Resurrection
Link: oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Resurrection
The rising again from the dead, the resumption of life
“Resurrection is the rising again from the dead, the resumption of life. The Fourth Lateran Council teaches that all men whether elect or reprobate, “will rise again with their own bodies which they now bear about with them” (cap. “Firmiter”).”

However, later in the article, under General Resurrection, it says, “All shall rise from the dead in their own, in their entire, and in immortal bodies.” This is basically what you are saying.

**
II. GENERAL RESURRECTION
A. Dogma of the Resurrection
(3) Tradition
B. Characteristics of the Risen Body**

"All shall rise from the dead in their own, in their entire, and in immortal bodies; but the good shall rise to the resurrection of life, the wicked to the resurrection of judgment. It would destroy the very idea of resurrection, if the dead were to rise in bodies not their own.

Again, the resurrection, like the creation, is to be numbered amongst the principal works of God; hence, as at the creation all things came perfect from the hand of God, so at the resurrection all things must be perfectly restored by the same omnipotent hand.

But **there is a difference between the earthly and the risen body; for the risen bodies of both saints and sinners shall be invested with immortality. **This admirable restoration of nature is the result of the glorious triumph of Christ over death as described in several texts of Sacred Scripture: Is., xxv, 8; Osee, xiii, 14; I Cor., xv, 26; Apoc., ii, 4. But while the just shall enjoy an endless felicity in the entirety of their restored members, the wicked “shall seek death, and shall not find it, shall desire to die, and death shall fly from them” (Apoc., ix, 6)."

You said, “Lazarus died, and so did the daughter of Jarius die again, after being restored to earthly life by Jesus.”

How are we to reconcile the statement in Hebrews, that man is appointed once to die, with the Biblical accounts of raising people from the dead----which would mean they died twice?

Hebrews Chapter 9 (ESV): 25 Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, 26 for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, 28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him… . .

Would you shed some light on this?

Thanks,
Anna

 

[peary1]

We know from scripture that man is to die but once and that the resurrection comes at the end of time.

But what about the death and resurrection of Lazarus, Naim’s son, and the daughter of Jairus? All three had died and were resurrected by Jesus. They were not resuscitated.
They must have had to die again. Are they now subject to a second resurrection…or?

This is something to ponder on. Your thoughts on this would be much appreciated.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

It wasn’t a resurrected body. It was a re-constituted body. Lazarus’s body was his normal human body and it was not transformed into a resurrected body. And yes, he would have had to die again. The same with Naim’s son and the daughter of Jairus. A resurrected body is quite different.

 

[Anna_Scott]

Is Ezekiel 37 a literal prophesy of the resurrection of the whole house of Israel?

Ezekiel 37: 11Then he said to me, "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. Behold, they say, ‘Our bones are dried up, and our hope is lost; we are indeed cut off.’ 12 Therefore prophesy, and say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will open your graves and raise you from your graves, O my people. And I will bring you into the land of Israel. 13 And you shall know that I am the LORD, when I open your graves, and raise you from your graves, O my people.

Anna

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

I appreciate your comments.

Would you shed some light on this?

Thanks,
Anna

As much as I hate to say it, I would call this an exception to the rule. Don’t forget. Jesus (GOD) is the author of life. As such he can do as he wishes in performing miracles for us his creatures. All I can say to that is Praise God.

Deacon Ed B

 

[NHInsider]

Javl - I wonder why you began by asserting that Lazarus and Jairus’ daughter

had died and were resurrected by Jesus. They were not resuscitated.

It seems that resuscitatation is in fact the better term for those miracles?

As Deacon Ed has observed, resurrection is generally used to mean “in the glorified/immortal body.” Jesus tells Mary of Bethany “I am the Resurrection and the Life.” John says"what we shall be has not yet been revealed. We do know that when it is revealed we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is." This is the resurrection of the body which to which we profess.

The issue in Hebrews, however, is not about individual people but about mankind in general (it’s anthropos/homo, not aner/vir). So we do not believe in reincarnation, nor do we believe that this life is all there is - we believe that we have one earthly life, and that we will be judged for the way we live it. That’s pretty clear from the context, just as it is clear from the stories of those restored to life by Jesus or the Apostles (or Elijah, for that matter) were in fact still subject to human frailties and eventual death). We don’t need to set up false contradictions between/among the texts of Scripture (again, we are not literalists . . .)

The other question in this thread, about the possibility of being “with Jesus in Paradise” when Jesus had not yet ascended, speaks to both the mystery of the Incarnation and the fact that Heaven is not a “place” as we think of spaces but a state of being - because when we die we pass out of space/time as we know it and into eternity where everything is “now.”

 

[Javl]

Javl - I wonder why you began by asserting that Lazarus and Jairus’ daughter It seems that resuscitatation is in fact the better term for those miracles?

As Deacon Ed has observed, resurrection is generally used to mean “in the glorified/immortal body.” Jesus tells Mary of Bethany “I am the Resurrection and the Life.” John says"what we shall be has not yet been revealed. We do know that when it is revealed we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is." This is the resurrection of the body which to which we profess.

The issue in Hebrews, however, is not about individual people but about mankind in general (it’s anthropos/homo, not aner/vir). So we do not believe in reincarnation, nor do we believe that this life is all there is - we believe that we have one earthly life, and that we will be judged for the way we live it. That’s pretty clear from the context, just as it is clear from the stories of those restored to life by Jesus or the Apostles (or Elijah, for that matter) were in fact still subject to human frailties and eventual death). We don’t need to set up false contradictions between/among the texts of Scripture (again, we are not literalists . . .)

The other question in this thread, about the possibility of being “with Jesus in Paradise” when Jesus had not yet ascended, speaks to both the mystery of the Incarnation and the fact that Heaven is not a “place” as we think of spaces but a state of being - because when we die we pass out of space/time as we know it and into eternity where everything is “now.”

If these three person had been dead for a while how could they have been resucitated? I am under the impression that resucitation is an immediate action for revival after the cessation of the beating heart. Or am I wrong?

In my opinion they were resurrected, but not with glorified bodies. Since Jesus is the life and the resurrection, His actions with these three was for the greater Glory of God to prove that not only that He is the Son of God, but that He IS the life and the resurrection and has power over death.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[peary1]

If these three person had been dead for a while how could they have been resucitated? I am under the impression that resucitation is an immediate action for revival after the cessation of the beating heart. Or am I wrong?

In my opinion they were resurrected, but not with glorified bodies. Since Jesus is the life and the resurrection, His actions with these three was for the greater Glory of God to prove that not only that He is the Son of God, but that He IS the life and the resurrection and has power over death.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

Why is this so difficult to understand? The three people who are written in the Gospels that Christ “rose from the dead” were, for all intents and purposes, reconstituted in their physical bodies to live on earth again, particularly Lazarus, who was in the tomb for several days. His body would have begun major decomposition.

They were not given a ‘resurrected’ body. Their own bodies were restored. Maybe we could call it a ‘restored’ body. In the Church there is a phenomenon called ‘incorruptibles’. These are the bodies of saints that, through no outward physical intervention, have resisted the corruption of death. Some are pristine; others are not.

The reason I think the events were included in the gospels was to show us that Christ was God and that He had the power of life and death.

 

[Anna_Scott]

javl - i wonder why you began by asserting that lazarus and jairus’ daughter it seems that resuscitatation is in fact the better term for those miracles?

Wouldn’t your assumption deny the miracles of Christ, since “resuscitation” is not a miracle? I have resuscitated people during my career in heath care. I do not claim to have raised the dead.

The miracles of Christ, which included raising the dead, were part of the visible evidence of His identity as the Messiah and Son of God.

Matthew 11:2-5 (ESV): 2 Now when John heard in prison about the deeds of the Christ, he sent word by his disciples 3 and said to him, “Are you the one who is to come, or shall we look for another?” 4 And Jesus answered them, "Go and tell John what you hear and see: 5 the blind receive their sight and the lame walk, lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them.

What about those who walked out of their tombs after the resurrection of Christ? There is no way to claim they were “resuscitated.”

Matthew 27: 51 and behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. And the earth shook, and the rocks were split. 52 the tombs also were opened. And many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, 53 and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

In 1Kings, the child is brought back to life by a prayer:
**1 Kings 17: ** 21 then he stretched himself upon the child three times and cried to the lord, “o lord my god, let this child’s life come into him again.” 22and the lord listened to the voice of elijah. And the life of the child came into him again, and he revived.

Elisha raise a child from the dead as told in 2 kings 4:32-36.

What about the dead man, thrown into the grave of elisha? There is no sign of resuscitation here.
2 kings 13: 20 so elisha died, and they buried him. Now bands of moabites used to invade the land in the spring of the year. 21 and as a man was being buried, behold, a marauding band was seen and the man was thrown into the grave of elisha, and as soon as the man touched the bones of elisha, he revived and stood on his feet.

as deacon ed has observed, resurrection is generally used to mean “in the glorified/immortal body.” jesus tells mary of bethany “i am the resurrection and the life.” john says"what we shall be has not yet been revealed. We do know that when it is revealed we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is." this is the resurrection of the body which to which we profess.

I do understand that we will be resurrected to glorified/immortal bodies. Deacon Ed did address this. However, he did not deny that Jesus raised the dead.

the issue in hebrews, however, is not about individual people but about mankind in general (it’s anthropos/homo, not aner/vir). So we do not believe in reincarnation, nor do we believe that this life is all there is - we believe that we have one earthly life, and that we will be judged for the way we live it. That’s pretty clear from the context, just as it is clear from the stories of those restored to life by jesus or the apostles (or elijah, for that matter) were in fact still subject to human frailties and eventual death). We don’t need to set up false contradictions between/among the texts of scripture (again, we are not literalists . . .)

It is not my intention to set up false contradictions among texts of Scripture. I am asking in a sincere desire to understand these passages.

I agree that those Jesus raised from the dead were still subject to human frailties and eventual death, again. However, I don’t agree that they were merely resuscitated.

I do see that there is a difference in the resurrections of the dead performed by Christ, and the “general resurrection,” where Christians will receive a glorified/immortal body.

the other question in this thread, about the possibility of being “with jesus in paradise” when jesus had not yet ascended, speaks to both the mystery of the incarnation and the fact that heaven is not a “place” as we think of spaces but a state of being - because when we die we pass out of space/time as we know it and into eternity where everything is “now.”

This does help answer my question. I come here with many questions that have not been answered in Protestant churches. So, I really appreciate this explanation.

In Christ,
Anna

 

[Anna_Scott]

if these three person had been dead for a while how could they have been resucitated? I am under the impression that resucitation is an immediate action for revival after the cessation of the beating heart. Or am i wrong?

Well, the goal is to start CPR immediately for a better survival rate. The science of resuscitation is changing. On another Thread I wrote about a woman who spontaneously regained a heartbeat, after she was pronounced dead in an ICU unit.

There are some amazing survival rates after cardiac arrest, especially when hypothermia is involved. The following article discusses survival after 6 hours and 30 minutes of cardiopulmonary resuscitation. Years ago, this would have been material for science fiction.

medscape.com/medline/abstract/1811563
Severe accidental hypothermia: survival after 6 hours 30 minutes of cardiopulmonary resuscitation

As we discussed on another Thread, there are many claims of near death experiences, and people claiming to have returned from the dead for a second chance. I’m inclined to believe they were not biologically dead, if they were revived. Death can be a process. It is not always instantaneous.

However, I do believe that nothing is impossible with God. I do believe Jesus did raise people from the dead. They many not have been raised to the glorified body of the “general resurrection,” but I do believe they were miraculously raised from the dead. I think to deny this, is to deny the miracles of Christ.

In my opinion they were resurrected, but not with glorified bodies. Since jesus is the life and the resurrection, his actions with these three was for the greater glory of god to prove that not only that he is the son of god, but that he is the life and the resurrection and has power over death.

I absolutely agree.

 

[Anna_Scott]

If these three person had been dead for a while how could they have been resuscitated? I am under the impression that resuscitation is an immediate action for revival after the cessation of the beating heart. Or am I wrong?

In my opinion they were resurrected, but not with glorified bodies. Since Jesus is the life and the resurrection, His actions with these three was for the greater Glory of God to prove that not only that He is the Son of God, but that He IS the life and the resurrection and has power over death.

Why is this so difficult to understand? The three people who are written in the Gospels that Christ “rose from the dead” were, for all intents and purposes, reconstituted in their physical bodies to live on earth again, particularly Lazarus, who was in the tomb for several days. His body would have begun major decomposition.

They were not given a ‘resurrected’ body. Their own bodies were restored. Maybe we could call it a ‘restored’ body. In the Church there is a phenomenon called ‘incorruptibles’. These are the bodies of saints that, through no outward physical intervention, have resisted the corruption of death. Some are pristine; others are not.

The reason I think the events were included in the gospels was to show us that Christ was God and that He had the power of life and death.

It sounds like you and Javl are basically saying the same thing. Your differences appear to lie in semantics: resurrect the dead vs. raise the dead.

As previously posted, the Catholic Encyclopedia defines “resurrection” as “the rising again from the dead, the resumption of life”; while the “general resurrection” speaks of “immortal bodies.”

Resurrection
Link: oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Resurrection
The rising again from the dead, the resumption of life
“Resurrection is the rising again from the dead, the resumption of life. The Fourth Lateran Council teaches that all men whether elect or reprobate, “will rise again with their own bodies which they now bear about with them” (cap. “Firmiter”).”

II. GENERAL RESURRECTION
A. Dogma of the Resurrection
(3) Tradition
B. Characteristics of the Risen Body

"All shall rise from the dead in their own, in their entire, and in immortal bodies; but the good shall rise to the resurrection of life, the wicked to the resurrection of judgment. It would destroy the very idea of resurrection, if the dead were to rise in bodies not their own.

Again, the resurrection, like the creation, is to be numbered amongst the principal works of God; hence, as at the creation all things came perfect from the hand of God, so at the resurrection all things must be perfectly restored by the same omnipotent hand.

But **there is a difference between the earthly and the risen body; for the risen bodies of both saints and sinners shall be invested with immortality. **This admirable restoration of nature is the result of the glorious triumph of Christ over death as described in several texts of Sacred Scripture: Is., xxv, 8; Osee, xiii, 14; I Cor., xv, 26; Apoc., ii, 4. But while the just shall enjoy an endless felicity in the entirety of their restored members, the wicked “shall seek death, and shall not find it, shall desire to die, and death shall fly from them” (Apoc., ix, 6)."

In the Church there is a phenomenon called ‘incorruptibles’. These are the bodies of saints that, through no outward physical intervention, have resisted the corruption of death. Some are pristine; others are not.

Would you tell me more about the incorruptibles?

Anna

 

[peary1]

Would you tell me more about the incorruptibles?

Anna

Article here:
associatedcontent.com/article/476979/who_are_the_incorruptibles_and_what.html?cat=37

A very good book to read here:
catholicfreeshipping.stores.yahoo.net/gensym-238.html

 

[Anna_Scott]

Article here:
associatedcontent.com/article/476979/who_are_the_incorruptibles_and_what.html?cat=37

A very good book to read here:
catholicfreeshipping.stores.yahoo.net/gensym-238.html

Peary1,

Thank you so much!
Anna