The Rev. Michael Pfleger: Why is Catholic Church 'white church'?

[Petergee]

Why pick on the Catholic Church? The good Father should check out how few Blacks there are in the Episcopalian and Lutheran churches.

The Blacks in the USA are largely descended from slaves.
In the former French colony of Louisiana there are many Black Catholics. Unlike the English protestant slaveowners who regarded slaves as merely “talking tools” with no rights at all, in fact not even human, and punished them if they sought to be baptised or to go to Church or read the Bible, in general the French at least acknowledged that their slaves were human, arranged for them to be baptised and gave them time off to go to Mass.

 

[Petergee]

My own guess would be that Africans in America was contact with Protestants and they took on the religion of those.

Yes, except that the white protestants wouldn’t let the black protestants into their white church, they made thenm start their own black churches. It wasn’t until the 1960s that they began to intermingle.

Influxes of Catholics of Polish and Italian and others was from a later historical era, and by that time African Americans had already been evangelized into Protestantism.

The African experience of Haiti and other countries of Latin America is correspondingly just the opposite.

Hand-wringers like Pfleger, who see the world in terms of black and white, cannot grasp any explanation that does not have guilt of racism at the core.

And in fact the majority of Catholics in the world are “non-white” as the US term puts it. And probably always have been throughout the history of the Church.

 

[kingal86]

And in fact the majority of Catholics in the world are “non-white” as the US term puts it. And probably always have been throughout the history of the Church.

That’s certainly true now, although in Medieval Christendom (following the Islamic conquest of North Africa, before the European Age of Exploration) it would depend I guess on whether slightly darker Mediterranean European Christians (in Spain, Italy etc.) are considered “white” under the US definition , which seems to contrast between Hispanics/Latinos and white Anglos, and and how the Catholic population was proportionally comparing Northern and Southern Europe.

I also find the term “non-white” as a label is a little confusing since they can be defined so many ways. In Britain it’s unclear if it means black, or includes Asians (which in Britain means of Indian subcontinent origin), and other non-Caucasian races.

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

Perhaps one reason there’s proportionally less African-American Catholics is because there are proportionally more American Protestants as far as the general population goes. So presumably most of the missionary activity and religious instruction of the black minority over the centuries was also Protestant-based.

Actually I disagree. Even if you quantify that there were more Protestant slaveowners who converted their chattel, there still is a disparity among Catholics as to black Americans.

It turns out that the American Catholic church did not try to proselytize blacks, as many Protestant denominations did. Further there surely was discrimination within the church with some priestly orders refusing black applicants well into the sixties. Many folks don’t know that. Protestant denominations were actually more open to black clergy and tried to convert more black laity. With the great immigrant groups in America, Catholicism was more ethnically based than the Protestant churches, making it more tribal and less diverse than other denominations. (There were separate Irish, Italian, Polish and Slovak congregations in my hometown.) Hence, few blacks has historical reasons to join.

And then, it is true that the American Catholic church was at best lukewarm to the civil rights movement. So there is no real mystery why there are so few black Catholics.

 

[Dale_M]

It turns out that the American Catholic church did not try to proselytize blacks, as many Protestant denominations did.

Yes, although the concentration of the African-American population in the South may have had something to do with that. Catholics are somewhat rare down there.

Of course, during and after the Great Migration, the Catholic Church could have down better.

Further there surely was discrimination within the church with some priestly orders refusing black applicants well into the sixties. Many folks don’t know that.

Yes, and I think that is partly what Fr. Pfleger was getting at. We don’t know important history about the Church in the US.

And then, it is true that the American Catholic church was at best lukewarm to the civil rights movement. So there is no real mystery why there are so few black Catholics.

Yes, we were too tentative about a defining moral issue of that time. It looks bad now, and certainly couldn’t have been appealing to African-Americans back then.

 

[RoncalliM]

A lot of religious black folks I know have a strong sense of black community and culture tied in with faith. That is why you see a lot of all black protestant gatherings. Yes, the faith is technically the same as many predominantly white gatherings, but the culture can be quite different. I have seen this with Catholicism.

 

[Jermosh]

Perhaps one reason there’s proportionally less African-American Catholics is because there are proportionally more American Protestants as far as the general population goes. So presumably most of the missionary activity and religious instruction of the black minority over the centuries was also Protestant-based.

I think we also have to point out that there was not a large Catholic presence in the south during the early 1800s and they were even pushed out for their abolishment acceptance.

 

[Musicadmirer]

Fr Pfleger calls the Catholic Church a ‘white church’. I’ve never heard of anyone else refer to the universal church as that. Yes, there should be more of our Black American brothers and sisters in the Catholic Church. People have their reasons for not converting, one of them may be that they don’t feel a sufficient outreach to their communities.

Nevertheless, as Fr. Pfleger is the pastor of a predominantly Black parish, it is my opinion that he deems it necessary to every now and then make it in the papers concerning the infringement of the rights of blacks.

Case in point: the ‘sermon’ he gave on Hilary Clinton’s sense of white entitlement for the presidency.

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

Fr Pfleger calls the Catholic Church a ‘white church’. I’ve never heard of anyone else refer to the universal church as that.

I have.

Nevertheless, as Fr. Pfleger is the pastor of a predominantly Black parish, it is my opinion that he deems it necessary to every now and then make it in the papers concerning the infringement of the rights of blacks.

And that does not make what he says any less true.

 

[MarkSinner]

I think that Rev. Michael Pfleger is wrong. Probably the most devout Catholics are living in the central Africa and Church has bright future there, number of Catholics is growing and many animists and Muslims are converting to Catholicism. According to current demographic trends, black people are going to be majority of Catholics in the future.

 

[Dale_M]

Musicadmirer;6689272:

Fr Pfleger calls the Catholic Church a ‘white church’. I’ve never heard of anyone else refer to the universal church as that.

I have.

So have I.

Its easy for us here to dismiss Fr. Pfleger’s article. But he has much experience in a community that most of us here do not have. I don’t always agree with what he says or does, but I think he is worth listening to this time.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Blacks are Protestant because more of where their slave ancestors are from were protestant. If you go outside the state of Louisiana in the cenfederate south there was no Catholic church. Keep in mind that even in this day and age most people as adults are still the religion they were raised as children. With that said there are cultural differences. As someone with an Irish, German background I like things lowkey like my ancestors did. If there a bunch of unneccesary loud music making it like a hodown, I’m gone, no matter the race of everyone else there. I go to Mass for the sole pourpose of worshipping God and not the hoopla. Does that make me racist? NO! The furtherest thing from my mind in church is race and culture. Leave racism out of the church.

 

[Moscati]

I grew up in the South, and vividly remember the first time a black family came to visit our Protestant church. (I was born in the 80’s). It was quite an event–not that anyone wasn’t nice or welcoming, but it just hardly ever happened. There was a predominantly black church down the street. Our churches were on good terms, but just didn’t “mix”.

Fast forward to my entry into Catholicism–the priest who confirmed me was a black African, and there was only one other ‘white’ person in my class (of 5). We had a Cambodian, an African American, and Puerto Rican.

I know different parts of the country are different, but the Catholic Church seems really, really colorful to me.

 

[Soutane]

Someone might ask him where in the world the Church is growing the fastest.
Africa is on fire with Catholocism. They’ve been sending us missionary priests for years…and Cardinal Arinze still wields power in Rome, and I think that’s a good thing.

I thought he retired.Is he still eligible for the Papacy should(God Forbid)the vacancy be opened by the death of our Holy Father?

 

[pnewton]

Blacks are Protestant because more of where their slave ancestors are from were protestant.

This is probably the best answer. The larger number of black Catholics in Louisiana seems to support this. Catholic theology never allowed the kind of proof-texting that Protestants used to support slavery in the 19th century. The religion of the post civil war blacks was primarily protestant.

I hate to see anyone, white or black, trot out this racism garbage and blamatory language.

 

[Dale_M]

This is probably the best answer. The larger number of black Catholics in Louisiana seems to support this. Catholic theology never allowed the kind of proof-texting that Protestants used to support slavery in the 19th century. The religion of the post civil war blacks was primarily protestant.

But the reason that the religion of post civil war blacks was Protestant is it that it was the predominant version of Christianity in the formerly slave holding areas. I’m not sure that the proof-texting of Protestant slave holders and their supporters is so much important. Certainly freed slaves wouldn’t agree that the Bible supported their enslavement. The lack of a Catholic presence may have more to do with with the lack of Catholic ex-slaves.

When African-Americans began to emigrate to to Catholic areas in the US North, during the first part of the 20th century, the Catholic Church did not actively try to evangelize them. In part, as Beau Ouiville mentioned, it was due to the ethnic nature of the the US Church. The Catholic Church, pre-1950 or 1960, was very much riven by ethnic identity e.g Irish-Catholic, not Italian-Catholic, or German-Catholic. Since Catholic identity was very much wrapped up in ethnic identity, it made it hard to reach out to persons of other ethnicities. This also fits with the well known reluctance of past (and perhaps current) Catholic generations to engage in evangelization.

 

[canadianguy1143]

I can’t speak about the history of black representation in the clergy in the USA but Pfleger wasn’t just talking about America but the world. Also he is talking today. Today the Catholic church is hardly the white church. But I can’t say I’m surprised by him. Since race relations are an important issue, I would dare say he is contributing to racial disharmony than trying to eradicate it.

 

[Dale_M]

I can’t speak about the history of black representation in the clergy in the USA but Pfleger wasn’t just talking about America but the world.

Are you sure about that?

Could you cite his statement were he is talking about he world-wide Church, and not just the US Church?

 

[canadianguy1143]

Are you sure about that?

Could you cite his statement were he is talking about he world-wide Church, and not just the US Church?

Yes I am. In the link that I initially posted here is a quote from him:

I say don’t get distracted, rather let’s celebrate them both and more importantly let’s use their rich legacy to remember the horrors many African-Americans have had to bear when they were told they couldn’t enter Catholic Churches because there was a “colored church” for them. Or when they were forced to sit in the back of the churches or the balcony. We need to remember what so many ancestors had to go through to be and stay Catholic.

We also need to examine how much work we still need to do. Why is the Catholic Church still referred to as the “white church”? Why are there still so few African-American priests and religious? And why have we seemingly lost so many African-Americans over the years in our churches?

 

[Dale_M]

Yes I am. In the link that I initially posted here is a quote from him:

From the quote you provided, it seems he is clearly talking about the African-American experience of the US Catholic Church, rather than of the Catholic Church around the world.

Unless such persons traveled to other parts of the world, how would these African-Americans be able to comment on anything but the US Church?