The Rev. Michael Pfleger: Why is Catholic Church 'white church'?

[tjm190]

Because the majority of Catholic immigrants were Irish or German, who settled primarily in New England and the Great Plains. In these areas African Americans were far less present and thus were more likely to be evangelized to by the sects dominant in the South.

 

[tjm190]

Yes I am. In the link that I initially posted here is a quote from him:

The quote specifically references “African-Americans,” which would imply it is talking about America

 

[Art321]

So have I.

Its easy for us here to dismiss Fr. Pfleger’s article. But he has much experience in a community that most of us here do not have. I don’t always agree with what he says or does, but I think he is worth listening to this time.

I would never classify the Church as a white church. Our church is by far the most diverse in the whole world, and there is not getting around that. Perhasps most catholics in the US are of caucasian decent but worldwide the Church is just so diverse. Right now, I believe that there are most Africans and Hispanics that are catholics than people of caucasian decent.

 

[Art321]

I would never classify the Church as a white church. Our church is by far the most diverse in the whole world, and there is not getting around that. Perhasps most catholics in the US are of caucasian decent but worldwide the Church is just so diverse. Right now, I believe that there are most Africans and Hispanics that are catholics than people of caucasian decent.

The Church is just so colorful!

 

[Musicadmirer]

I agree with the previous post. The Catholic Church is very colorful, despite what others believe. You should see what Fr Pfleger allows during the Holy Mass on Youtube. In my opinion, Pfleger says these things just to keep his black congregation happy.

No one should be allowed to make the Mass a festival. One’s heritage can be celebrated outside of what is reserved for God.

 

[rodomonte]

Suburban Catholic Churches are lilly white because the suburbs themselves are lilly white. The midwest suburb I grew up in had no blacks when I was there. Now it is 2% black, while the core city only 8 miles away is 40% black. How did that suburb remain lilly white? Realtors wouldn’t show homes to blacks and banks would “red line” loans to keep them out. My high school had no blacks when I was there and has only 3 now, some 40 years later. In fact, about 15 years ago, my high school wouldn’t even tell me how many blacks they had until I identified myself as an alumnus. Neither would a number of other Catholic high schools tell me their black enrollment. Now the ethnic demographics of all Catholic hight schools may be found on the internet. It has been said that the midwest is more segregated than the south. I believe it.

Circa 1997, a black family in Sacramento would arrive early each Sunday and go down and sit in the first pew. No one else ever joined them. They eventually got the message and went to another church. This was in Sacramento, not thought of as a racist city. This story was printed in the Saturday religion section of the Sacramento Bee. Kind of scandalous.

Don’t tell me racism doesn’t exist in the Church.

 

[pete_29]

Suburban Catholic Churches are lilly white because the suburbs themselves are lilly white. The midwest suburb I grew up in had no blacks when I was there. Now it is 2% black, while the core city only 8 miles away is 40% black. How did that suburb remain lilly white? Realtors wouldn’t show homes to blacks and banks would “red line” loans to keep them out. My high school had no blacks when I was there and has only 3 now, some 40 years later. In fact, about 15 years ago, my high school wouldn’t even tell me how many blacks they had until I identified myself as an alumnus. Neither would a number of other Catholic high schools tell me their black enrollment. Now the ethnic demographics of all Catholic hight schools may be found on the internet. It has been said that the midwest is more segregated than the south. I believe it.

Circa 1997, a black family in Sacramento would arrive early each Sunday and go down and sit in the first pew. No one else ever joined them. They eventually got the message and went to another church. This was in Sacramento, not thought of as a racist city. This story was printed in the Saturday religion section of the Sacramento Bee. Kind of scandalous.

Don’t tell me racism doesn’t exist in the Church.

How many people sit in the first pew now. I accept that there is racism. I don’t accept that it’s a one way street. Of course I’m sure this makes me a racist. So be it.

 

[Teelynn]

I have.

And that does not make what he says any less true.

Possibly he is right on about certain infractions racially within the Church. Perhaps it is all true. However, I have seen enough of his “antics” in regard to other disagreements he has with the Church, it leads me to believe he likes to be a showman who loves to stir people up and not in a positive way. I think that might be the opposite of what a Catholic Priest is supposed to do.

I especially don’t see much benefit in driving a racial wedge in the Church. If it were to fire up the heirarchy into action, I do believe there are better ways… more contructive ways to do that.

Some of what he says is clearly a dig at the Cardinal…and not at all “unifying”.

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

Because the majority of Catholic immigrants were Irish or German, who settled primarily in New England and the Great Plains. In these areas African Americans were far less present and thus were more likely to be evangelized to by the sects dominant in the South.

Well, many blacks fled NY after Catholic rioters during the Civil War attacked blacks. In one infamous incident, a black orphanage was set on fire, its doors were nailed shut and anyone trying to escape out the windows was shot at. By Irish Catholics.

After that, NYC’s black population grew very slowly for decades. And there was no missionary work by Catholics toward blacks. The Freedmen’s Society which operated in the south after the Civil War was mainly made up of abolitionist Protestants (a lot of them Congregationalists); not Catholics. Even during the century of segregation, there was only one black Catholic college in America (St. Xavier in New Orleans) but dozens of black Protestant schools.

What no one has mentioned is that the white Protestant congregations which fled to the suburbs took all their programs with them. To their credit, the dioceses have kept the parish schools open, many mainly minority and with few Catholics, because the Church has an education ministry. This is not true of the Protestant or Jewish religious schools which have lost students.

These Catholic schools should be used more to try to convert families to Catholicism.

I especially don’t see much benefit in driving a racial wedge in the Church. If it were to fire up the heirarchy into action, I do believe there are better ways… more contructive ways to do that.

I think the good father is trying to prevent more defections from his parish then drive a wedge or fire up the hierarchy. Some aspects of American Catholic history were just swept under the rug.

 

[catharina]

In fairness to Fr. Pfleger (and it’s a stretch to be fair about him) it’s probable he has been in his locale for way too long. The Church is the Church. It encompasses Africa, Asia, the three Americas, Australia, etc… If Fr. P. lived in Africa, in Nigeria, for example, he might think of the Catholic Church as the ‘black Church.’ In either circumstance, he’s wrong. It’s all too sad for words when anyone is stuck in seeing racial context first.

 

[canadianguy1143]

In fairness to Fr. Pfleger (and it’s a stretch to be fair about him) it’s probable he has been in his locale for way too long. The Church is the Church. It encompasses Africa, Asia, the three Americas, Australia, etc… If Fr. P. lived in Africa, in Nigeria, for example, he might think of the Catholic Church as the ‘black Church.’ In either circumstance, he’s wrong. It’s all too sad for words when anyone is stuck in seeing racial context first.

Perfectly said Catharina

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

In fairness to Fr. Pfleger (and it’s a stretch to be fair about him) it’s probable he has been in his locale for way too long.

That’s not saying he’s wrong in his opinions. He was talking about the Catholic Church in America.

In either circumstance, he’s wrong.

Easily said. Explain how so.

It’s all too sad for words when anyone is stuck in seeing racial context first.

How do you get that? This is one talks he gave. He has a habit of speaking on various topics so there’s no accuracy in stating that he is stuck on seeing any context first.

Wishing does not make it so.

 

[catharina]

That’s not saying he’s wrong in his opinions. He was talking about the Catholic Church in America.

Easily said. Explain how so.

How do you get that? This is one talks he gave. He has a habit of speaking on various topics so there’s no accuracy in stating that he is stuck on seeing any context first.

Wishing does not make it so.

Yes - he was talking about the Catholic Church in the States. Too bad that.
I wonder if Father has ever given thought to the universal Church.
It would be nice if he did so and if he said so.

Father P gives off a certain attitude that is not “welcoming” of all.
Father P seems to be welcoming of all sinners other than racists.
That doesn’t fly with me. All of us are to condemn all sin.
Father’s single-focus priesthood leads a lot to be desired, IMO.
IMO, his single-focus is too sad for words.

I believe in his convictions re racism. It’s a profound evil -
yet I don’t think such convictions can stand as a single focus for a Catholic priest.

 

[Teelynn]

Well, many blacks fled NY after Catholic rioters during the Civil War attacked blacks. In one infamous incident, a black orphanage was set on fire, its doors were nailed shut and anyone trying to escape out the windows was shot at. By Irish Catholics.

After that, NYC’s black population grew very slowly for decades. And there was no missionary work by Catholics toward blacks. The Freedmen’s Society which operated in the south after the Civil War was mainly made up of abolitionist Protestants (a lot of them Congregationalists); not Catholics. Even during the century of segregation, there was only one black Catholic college in America (St. Xavier in New Orleans) but dozens of black Protestant schools.

What no one has mentioned is that the white Protestant congregations which fled to the suburbs took all their programs with them. To their credit, the dioceses have kept the parish schools open, many mainly minority and with few Catholics, because the Church has an education ministry. This is not true of the Protestant or Jewish religious schools which have lost students.

These Catholic schools should be used more to try to convert families to Catholicism.

I think the good father is trying to prevent more defections from his parish then drive a wedge or fire up the hierarchy. Some aspects of American Catholic history were just swept under the rug.

IMHO a very negative and divisive way to do that. Even if what he says has truth to it, with some black Catholics it will do the opposite of what it is he might be wanting to accomplish. “So the Catholic Church is racist? Well then, we’ll find one that’s not.” I don’t see any positives. Why harp on all the negative history of the Catholic Church? (and yes indeed, there are negatives in our history) I don’t thing that should be the focus of any proclamations from the pulpit. I am just wondering why Cardinal George has given him (practically) free reign on his rantings.

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

Yes - he was talking about the Catholic Church in the States. Too bad that.
I wonder if Father has ever given thought to the universal Church.
It would be nice if he did so and if he said so.

Let’s deal with the issue in front of us.

Father P gives off a certain attitude that is not “welcoming” of all.
Father P seems to be welcoming of all sinners other than racists.

Seems? What do you base that on? The pastor is publicly and stridently down on cigarettes, liquor, guns and the lottery, too. People don’t mention that much – its his talks on race which strike a nerve.

Father’s single-focus priesthood leads a lot to be desired, IMO.
IMO, his single-focus is too sad for words.

Let’s just say that you are not familiar with his other programs. He is not hardly single-focus. Why do you presume so?

I believe in his convictions re racism. It’s a profound evil -
yet I don’t think such convictions can stand as a single focus for a Catholic priest.

See above. How much can a priest talk about racism in a congregation which is 99% minority? He’d be preaching to the choir. Its just that folks seem to want to highlight his views as to race.

When he wanted to paint over liquor billboards I didn’t see it make the national media.

 

[catharina]

Let’s deal with the issue in front of us.

Seems? What do you base that on? The pastor is publicly and stridently down on cigarettes, liquor, guns and the lottery, too. People don’t mention that much – its his talks on race which strike a nerve.

Let’s just say that you are not familiar with his other programs. He is not hardly single-focus. Why do you presume so?

See above. How much can a priest talk about racism in a congregation which is 99% minority? He’d be preaching to the choir. Its just that folks seem to want to highlight his views as to race.

When he wanted to paint over liquor billboards I didn’t see it make the national media.

Whistling in the wind … that’s the only reason to pretend that Fr. P is not single-issue.
Frankly, I’m just tired to death of him. Yes, I know of his many good works.
I even know some of his parishoners. Yet whenever he pulls the race card, he loses.
That will remain the case since he works to highlight hostility, esp his own.
It would be a blessing if he would sit down and be quiet when the issue is race.
He inspires hostility and distrust and he must know that.

I lost most of my respect for him when he chose Obama over the Catholic bishops.
Will I prove that to you? No. It’s solidly in the realm of common knowledge.

 

[irishpatrick]

Suburban Catholic Churches are lilly white because the suburbs themselves are lilly white. The midwest suburb I grew up in had no blacks when I was there. Now it is 2% black, while the core city only 8 miles away is 40% black. How did that suburb remain lilly white? Realtors wouldn’t show homes to blacks and banks would “red line” loans to keep them out. My high school had no blacks when I was there and has only 3 now, some 40 years later. In fact, about 15 years ago, my high school wouldn’t even tell me how many blacks they had until I identified myself as an alumnus. Neither would a number of other Catholic high schools tell me their black enrollment. Now the ethnic demographics of all Catholic hight schools may be found on the internet. It has been said that the midwest is more segregated than the south. I believe it.

Circa 1997, a black family in Sacramento would arrive early each Sunday and go down and sit in the first pew. No one else ever joined them. They eventually got the message and went to another church. This was in Sacramento, not thought of as a racist city. This story was printed in the Saturday religion section of the Sacramento Bee. Kind of scandalous.

Don’t tell me racism doesn’t exist in the Church.

I find the phrase"lily white" to be quite offensive and racist in tone and in intent–as if there is something wrong with being white. Typical racist dribble.

 

[irishpatrick]

Come on folks, we need to use some simple reasoning here.

The USA has a white population of just a touch over 75%. Obviously that means 3 out of every 4 people are white! That fact alone would make many Christians Churches have a surface appearance of being “white” because at a bare minimum most of those Churches are populated by 75% (or more) white people. Yet, we know as an absolute fact that the Catholic Church is not a white Church; for example hispanics are heavily Catholic, and the USA has a large hispanic population.

Worldwide the non-white Catholic population soars. For example, there are 17-20,000,000 Catholics in India alone. Mexico is over 90% Catholic, African nations are becoming more Catholic all the time, etc.

Father’s complaint is clearly that he does not see, on the south side of Chicago, large populations of black Catholics, which of course is true, yet that does not mean the RCC is a white Church–that is where Father’s logic falls apart completely.

 

[catharina]

Come on folks, we need to use some simple reasoning here.

The USA has a white population of just a touch over 75%. Obviously that means 3 out of every 4 people are white! That fact alone would make many Christians Churches have a surface appearance of being “white” because at a bare minimu most of those Churches are populated by white people. Yet, we know as an absolute fact that the Catholic Church is not a white Church, hispanics are heavily Catholics, and the USA has a large hispanic population.

Worldwide the non-white Catholic population soars. For example, there are 17-20,000,000 Catholics in India alone.

That was my point as well.

If Fr. P were missioned to Nigeria or Uganda, his complaint
could easily be that the Catholic Church is very much black, no whites.

The nations reflect their populations in their Churches.
Lack of certain people means lack of certain presence.
It’s numbers, pure and simple.

 

[irishpatrick]

That was my point as well.

If Fr. P were missioned to Nigeria or Uganda, his complaint
could easily be that the Catholic Church is very much black, no whites.

The nations reflect their populations in their Churches.
Lack of certain people means lack of certain presence.
It’s numbers, pure and simple.

Exactly. In a nation that still has a 75% white population, it should be no shock that many churches appear white on the surface. It is the same with places like the south side of Chicago. There are many Protestant and non-Catholic churches there, and they are likely 90% or more black, yet it would be unfair to call them “black” churches. Yet, even if a church does contain more “whites” or more “blacks,” why is that a problem? Like it or not people of all races and colors and backgrounds tend to collapse together, it does not make them bad people.