The Rev. Michael Pfleger: Why is Catholic Church 'white church'?

[russell007]

newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/religion_theseeker/2010/05/the-rev-michael-pfleger-tolton-vs-healy.html

Obviously Michael P has never been to Louisiana!

When Katrina hit Louisiana and the people from there migrated to Houston our parish
almost doubled (African Americans).

It was the African bishops that kept Pope Zosimus from making a grave mistake with Pelagius and his herecies.

Lets not forget the Great Cardinal Arinze! I hope one day he can become pope.

Pope St Victor I (ca186-198), Pope St Miltiades (311-14), and Pope St Gelasius (492-496)-were Africans.

Africans have been influential in our church.

 

[Devout_One]

Your statement is false. Have you ever heard of the Diocese of Charleston (SC)? During the civil war, the diocese covered SC, NC, GA, the Bahamas and Bermuda. The Bishop at the time was Patrick Lynch.

 

[Devout_One]

Quote from Pflegler article:
QUOTE: I say don’t get distracted, rather let’s celebrate them both and more importantly **let’s use their rich legacy to *****remember the horrors many African-Americans have had to bear ***when they were told they couldn’t enter Catholic Churches because there was a “colored church” for them. Or when they were forced to sit in the back of the churches or the balcony. We need to remember what so many ancestors had to go through to be and stay Catholic.

We also need to examine how much work we still need to do. Why is the Catholic Church still referred to as the “white church”? Why are there still so few African-American priests and religious? And why have we seemingly lost so many African-Americans over the years in our churches? END QUOTE

Put aside for a moment what you think Pflegler represents and look objectively at his statements about the state of the Catholic Church in the U.S.

I think it is important to understand the historical experiences of the treatment of African Americans in the Catholic Church in the U.S. I do believe a lack of knowledge and sensitivity (when presented with facts of the historical mistreatment of African Americans in the context of the U.S. Catholic Church) on the part of many posters here underlies the problem in the U.S. Church. We cannot remedy what we do not acknowledge.

With dismay and embarassment for my fellow Catholics on this forum, I see gross generalizations about the style of worship African American Catholics prefer. These are stereotypes and I am sad they are being used as a justification for not even examining on a deeper level the racism (meaning prejudice plus power) that infected the Church and impacted the experience of African Americans vis a vis the U.S. Catholic Church.

What if seminaries and Bishops in our country did purposely reject African American men who wanted to be priests? They did. What if parishes in our country violently rejected an African American priest who came to serve in their parish? They did. Could these and other similar events have had an effect on the presence or lack thereof of African Americans in the Church…in the Clergy? If so, what can we do today to encourage, promote, and embrace the evangelization of non-Catholic AfAms and embrace the existing AfAm who remain or come into the Church, given this knowledge?

Do most of you who are not AfAm expect to be in the minority when you go to a RC Church in a place where you are unfamiliar with the parishes and the Mass is in English or Latin? Do you expect the faces in said parishes to be mostly nonwhite?

Let me add this story as an example. In 2001, my father in law called a RC Church in a southern city to find out Mass times. The priest told him the times and added, “You know mostly blacks attend this parish.” The priest was white. My father in law, who is not Catholic, was surprised the priest felt the need to give a “warning”.

What do you make of this priest’s unsolicited statement about the racial make up of the parish? Does it demonstrate the generally unspoken notion that the U.S. Catholic Church is a white church? We attended Mass there as we had planned. What would you have done? Should we have talked to the priest about how we perceived his comment?

In 2007, I attended parish missions where we go out in the community and invite people to come to the Church. At these missions, I have seen my team turn away when a black person comes to the door. I stay and do what we are supposed to do while everyone else scurries back to the sidewalk. I have seen seminarians withhold pamphlets inviting people to the Church when it is a black person they encounter, all the while giving out pamphlets to white and non-black persons. Mind you, the parish that had these missions was so faithful in outward practices. Beautifully reverential Masses, beautiful Eucharistic adoration, illuminating and faithful homilies yet this repulsive behavior came to the forefront when it came time to reach out and evangelize. Even the pastor of the parish remained silent when a photo invitation, from the co-head of the Prolife ministry, for a “Redneck Mardi Gras Party” depicted a lynching. Also it was terribly sickening to see the abuse the two young AfAm women received from “faithful Catholic white men” when they took issue with the invitation. :crying:

Would you feel welcomed in a parish like that? How do you think an AfAm would feel in that situation? What would you have done in that situation? I and several others, including the AfAm women, left the parish despite its outwardly reverential practices.

When I go to Catholic young adult social events, I see the AfAms basically ignored even when they try to insert themselves in conversations. I see these people being treated as if they are invisible. I try to engage them in conversation and invite them to other events but frankly the entire atmosphere is NOT welcoming to them. What can I do? What can you do? What are you/we doing?

I think the Pflegler article is a good place to start asking ourselves what we can do to be followers of Christ in regard to evangelizing non-Catholic AfAms and in embracing Catholic AfAms. Certainly being sensitive to their experiences, historical and otherwise, cannot hurt and should only aid us in being humble in this regard.

Let’s not use the excuse that we don’t like the messenger as a reason for not considering the message and the opportunity Christ has placed in our path in this regard.

Attende Domini, et miserere quia peccavimus tibi

 

[catharina]

Let me add this story as an example. In 2001, my father in law called a RC Church in a southern city to find out Mass times. The priest told him the times and added, “You know mostly blacks attend this parish.” The priest was white. My father in law, who is not Catholic, was surprised the priest felt the need to give a “warning”.

What do you make of this priest’s unsolicited statement about the racial make up of the parish? Does it demonstrate the generally unspoken notion that the U.S. Catholic Church is a white church? We attended Mass there as we had planned. What would you have done? Should we have talked to the priest about how we perceived his comment?

In 2007, I attended parish missions where we go out in the community and invite people to come to the Church. At these missions, I have seen my team turn away when a black person comes to the door. I stay and do what we are supposed to do while everyone else scurries back to the sidewalk. I have seen seminarians withhold pamphlets inviting people to the Church when it is a black person they encounter, all the while giving out pamphlets to white and non-black persons. Mind you, the parish that had these missions was so faithful in outward practices. Beautifully reverential Masses, beautiful Eucharistic adoration, illuminating and faithful homilies yet this repulsive behavior came to the forefront when it came time to reach out and evangelize. Even the pastor of the parish remained silent when a photo invitation, from the co-head of the Prolife ministry, for a “Redneck Mardi Gras Party” depicted a lynching. Also it was terribly sickening to see the abuse the two young AfAm women received from “faithful Catholic white men” when they took issue with the invitation. :crying:

Would you feel welcomed in a parish like that? How do you think an AfAm would feel in that situation? What would you have done in that situation? I and several others, including the AfAm women, left the parish despite its outwardly reverential practices.

When I go to Catholic young adult social events, I see the AfAms basically ignored even when they try to insert themselves in conversations. I see these people being treated as if they are invisible. I try to engage them in conversation and invite them to other events but frankly the entire atmosphere is NOT welcoming to them. What can I do? What can you do? What are you/we doing?

I think the Pflegler article is a good place to start asking ourselves what we can do to be followers of Christ in regard to evangelizing non-Catholic AfAms and in embracing Catholic AfAms. Certainly being sensitive to their experiences, historical and otherwise, cannot hurt and should only aid us in being humble in this regard.

Let’s not use the excuse that we don’t like the messenger as a reason for not considering the message and the opportunity Christ has placed in our path in this regard.

Attende Domini, et miserere quia peccavimus tibi

Then guess what? You have found a calling.
I cannot protest what YOU have seen. Too many variables: who/what/when/where.
Yet YOU must protest it. I embraced “the message” before Fr. P even recognized it.
I’m only some yrs older than he and I’m a Chicagoan too,
but his way of “inviting/instructing” is more of insulting/condeming.

What you see, YOU address - because you MUST do so.
Take it up the line, pastors, bishops as far as you need to go.
Don’t ignore ht university presidents or the “counselors” who approve “get back.”
YOU work YOUR field and if it ends up being your life’s work, so be it.
For the love of God, SPEAK UP - to “team members” to newcomers, to all.

Many of us have been speaking up for decades.
Give up the illusion that only you knows what’s up.

Have you addressed the scandals you noted above?
If not, you should do so ASAP.

 

[rodomonte]

What if seminaries and Bishops in our country did purposely reject African American men who wanted to be priests? They did. What if parishes in our country violently rejected an African American priest who came to serve in their parish? They did. Could these and other similar events have had an effect on the presence or lack thereof of African Americans in the Church…in the Clergy? If so, what can we do today to encourage, promote, and embrace the evangelization of non-Catholic AfAms and embrace the existing AfAm who remain or come into the Church, given this knowledge?

Let me add this story as an example. In 2001, my father in law called a RC Church in a southern city to find out Mass times. The priest told him the times and added, “You know mostly blacks attend this parish.” The priest was white. My father in law, who is not Catholic, was surprised the priest felt the need to give a “warning”.

What do you make of this priest’s unsolicited statement about the racial make up of the parish? Does it demonstrate the generally unspoken notion that the U.S. Catholic Church is a white church? We attended Mass there as we had planned. What would you have done? Should we have talked to the priest about how we perceived his comment?

In 2007, I attended parish missions where we go out in the community and invite people to come to the Church. At these missions, I have seen my team turn away when a black person comes to the door. I stay and do what we are supposed to do while everyone else scurries back to the sidewalk. I have seen seminarians withhold pamphlets inviting people to the Church when it is a black person they encounter, all the while giving out pamphlets to white and non-black persons. Mind you, the parish that had these missions was so faithful in outward practices. Beautifully reverential Masses, beautiful Eucharistic adoration, illuminating and faithful homilies yet this repulsive behavior came to the forefront when it came time to reach out and evangelize. Even the pastor of the parish remained silent when a photo invitation, from the co-head of the Prolife ministry, for a “Redneck Mardi Gras Party” depicted a lynching. Also it was terribly sickening to see the abuse the two young AfAm women received from “faithful Catholic white men” when they took issue with the invitation. :crying:

Would you feel welcomed in a parish like that? How do you think an AfAm would feel in that situation? What would you have done in that situation? I and several others, including the AfAm women, left the parish despite its outwardly reverential practices.

When I go to Catholic young adult social events, I see the AfAms basically ignored even when they try to insert themselves in conversations. I see these people being treated as if they are invisible. I try to engage them in conversation and invite them to other events but frankly the entire atmosphere is NOT welcoming to them. What can I do? What can you do? What are you/we doing?

I think the Pflegler article is a good place to start asking ourselves what we can do to be followers of Christ in regard to evangelizing non-Catholic AfAms and in embracing Catholic AfAms. Certainly being sensitive to their experiences, historical and otherwise, cannot hurt and should only aid us in being humble in this regard.

Let’s not use the excuse that we don’t like the messenger as a reason for not considering the message and the opportunity Christ has placed in our path in this regard.

Attende Domini, et miserere quia peccavimus tibi

Based on my own experiences, your experiences don’t surpirse me. Thanks for sharing them.

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

Whistling in the wind … that’s the only reason to pretend that Fr. P is not single-issue.

My, my. Google the NRA protests about him. You are simply ill-informed.

He inspires hostility and distrust and he must know that.

Because he mentions topics which make people uncomfortable? Maybe their discomfort is a good thing.

I lost most of my respect for him when he chose Obama over the Catholic bishops.
Will I prove that to you? No. It’s solidly in the realm of common knowledge.

I know for a fact that the cardinal did not endorse anyone in the presidential race so it would have been impossible for the pastor to go against his bishop.

But you go ahead and rely on ‘common knowledge’.

 

[catharina]

My, my. Google the NRA protests about him. You are simply ill-informed.

Because he mentions topics which make people uncomfortable? Maybe their discomfort is a good thing.

I know for a fact that the cardinal did not endorse anyone in the presidential race so it would have been impossible for the pastor to go against his bishop.

But you go ahead and rely on ‘common knowledge’.

Guess you’ve forgotten the “fact” of Fr. P’s ridiculous mockery of H Clinton.
She’d never get my vote - but then neither will Obama.
Is you memory firmly tied to “convenience” maybe?

 

[rodomonte]

I find the phrase"lily white" to be quite offensive and racist in tone and in intent–as if there is something wrong with being white. Typical racist dribble.

“Lilly white” means excluding or seeking to exclude blacks, and that is exactly what I was referring to. Nothing wrong with being white. You must have missed my posts in other threads where I suggest that clubs for Europeans be started in our Catholic high schools and colleges, since there are clubs for other ethnic groups. You must have missed my posts on illegal immigration where I disagree with the Bishop’s lobbying for amnesty and citizenship for illegals. In fact, I will be travelling over 200 miles next Saturday to attend a pro-SB1070 rally in Phoenix. I could die of heat stroke, since I already have had strokes.

It’s just that I find an enormous difference between how the Church has historically treated blacks and how it now treats Hispanics.

Apology for calling me a racist expected. Mostly it is Hispanics who call me racist. Never expected it from a fellow Irishman.

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

Guess you’ve forgotten the “fact” of Fr. P’s ridiculous mockery of H Clinton.
She’d never get my vote - but then neither will Obama.
Is you memory firmly tied to “convenience” maybe?

The cardinal disciplined the priest for meddling in politics – not for who he endorsed or did not endorse.

That’s an inconvenient fact for you. Did you research Father Pfleger and the NRA yet?

 

[catharina]

The cardinal disciplined the priest for meddling in politics – not for who he endorsed or did not endorse.

**Beau, so you DO remember!
Then why did you say this?
“I know for a fact that the cardinal did not endorse anyone in the presidential race
so it would have been impossible for the pastor to go against his bishop.” **

FATHER P HAS A HABIT OF EMBARASSING HIS BISHOP.
HE MAKES IT A HABIT TO REQUIRE SPECIAL DISCIPLINE.
I will not be doing “research” on this priest for any reason.
He habitually antagonizes Cardinal George.
Father’s attempts at good works will be for naught if he mocks the Church.
He seems to think he’s an entertainer with clout - not a simple priest.

That’s an inconvenient fact for you. Did you research Father Pfleger and the NRA yet?

 

[RACJ]

So now the Catholic Church is racist? Oy…

Don't worry. This guy is just a nutty socialist Obot, one who hasn't yet figured out that Obama loathes Christians. Or if he has, doesn't care a whit. :nope: Rob

 

[canadianguy1143]

I know for a fact that the cardinal did not endorse anyone in the presidential race so it would have been impossible for the pastor to go against his bishop.

But you go ahead and rely on ‘common knowledge’.

Either you are a liar or you are totally incompetent and under either circumstance no one should listen to you.

 

[Thunderbird]

As I’ve mentioned a few times elsewhere on the CA Forums, I crossed over into the Catholic Church back in 2007.

At the time, not a single member of my family could really understand the switch. Was it because of the dogma? Sure. Was it because of the usual misconceptions and stigmas associated with the Catholic Church? Of course. But, I’ll tell you what - the question has come up more than once: Why would you go join a church with so few of your own kind? I hear it in the uncomfortable silence after a fellow AfAm asks me what Church I attend, when I fail to name First/Second/Twelfth Baptist/AME/etc Church of Christ.

A church without my own kind? It seemed that they were right about that, too…at least from where I was standing at the time. At my converting parish, I was one of maybe ten blacks in attendance. The rest were split between Asian and Caucasian, with a few Hispanic/Latinos thrown in to taste. I loved them to death but yeah, nothing catering to the Black diaspora. Heaven forbid when I started attending Tridentine, where I received some pretty strange looks when I would ease into a pew somewhere in the middle of the church. It certainly hasn’t eased the perception among people that know me that believe I’m the “Whitest” black person they know!

Personally, I don’t know who this Fr. Michael is… and if he is doing something scandalous or contrary to church doctrine then all I can do is pray that God will change his heart or otherwise work through the Bishops to keep him from doing damage. However, I can’t say he’s wrong about the perception among mainline protestant blacks that this, my beloved, holy, apostolic and CATHOLIC church is not only white, but racist towards my people. It’s yet another thing I’ve had to play apologist for over the years and one that I’d like to see stop once and for all… but it exists. Yes, it exists.

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

Beau, so you DO remember!
Then why did you say this?
“I know for a fact that the cardinal did not endorse anyone in the presidential race
so it would have been impossible for the pastor to go against his bishop.”

Because it is accurate. The cardinal did not endorse anyone in the presidential race and disciplined Father Pfleger for his political commentary, not for any endorsement. You said that Father Pfleger went against Catholics bishops with his endorsement. I don’t know if he endorsed anyone or not, but he did not go against his bishop with any endorsement.

FATHER P HAS A HABIT OF EMBARASSING HIS BISHOP.
HE MAKES IT A HABIT TO REQUIRE SPECIAL DISCIPLINE.
I will not be doing “research” on this priest for any reason.
He habitually antagonizes Cardinal George.
Father’s attempts at good works will be for naught if he mocks the Church.
He seems to think he’s an entertainer with clout - not a simple priest.

I think we’re going to have to let the cardinal deal with this pastor. Your statement that Father Pfleger is always talking about race or just talks about race is simply inaccurate. You seem comfortable in your lack of knowledge about the priest but still feel free to make blanket statements about him.

I don’t know if he ‘mocked’ the Church. Many Catholics are just more comfortable with things swept under the rug.

 

[Spencerian]

As I’ve mentioned a few times elsewhere on the CA Forums, I crossed over into the Catholic Church back in 2007.

At the time, not a single member of my family could really understand the switch. Was it because of the dogma? Sure. Was it because of the usual misconceptions and stigmas associated with the Catholic Church? Of course. But, I’ll tell you what - the question has come up more than once: Why would you go join a church with so few of your own kind? I hear it in the uncomfortable silence after a fellow AfAm asks me what Church I attend, when I fail to name First/Second/Twelfth Baptist/AME/etc Church of Christ.

A church without my own kind? It seemed that they were right about that, too…at least from where I was standing at the time. At my converting parish, I was one of maybe ten blacks in attendance. The rest were split between Asian and Caucasian, with a few Hispanic/Latinos thrown in to taste. I loved them to death but yeah, nothing catering to the Black diaspora. Heaven forbid when I started attending Tridentine, where I received some pretty strange looks when I would ease into a pew somewhere in the middle of the church. It certainly hasn’t eased the perception among people that know me that believe I’m the “Whitest” black person they know!

Personally, I don’t know who this Fr. Michael is… and if he is doing something scandalous or contrary to church doctrine then all I can do is pray that God will change his heart or otherwise work through the Bishops to keep him from doing damage. However, I can’t say he’s wrong about the perception among mainline protestant blacks that this, my beloved, holy, apostolic and CATHOLIC church is not only white, but racist towards my people. It’s yet another thing I’ve had to play apologist for over the years and one that I’d like to see stop once and for all… but it exists. Yes, it exists.

As a fellow AfAm myself, you hit the nail right on the head.

As for being the “whitest Black person,” I’ll have to challenge you over a game of basketball or something (lowest score wins).

I get the same (affectionate) comments from many of my friends. In this social climate where Blacks may conform too much, I take this as a compliment without thinking in the least that I’ve “sold out” or something.

 

[JaMc]

From the article, Fr. Pfleger seems to argue that more “incultration” is the solution to bringing more black Americans into the Church. If. Fr. Pfleger really wants to provide an African Catholic cultural experience, how about offering, or bringing in a Priest to offer, a Coptic Catholic or Ethiopian Catholic Divine Liturgy? There, actually, is an article out there someplace (I’ll post a link if I find it), saying the black Americans are joining Eastern Orthodox Churches in significant numbers. Perhaps more African Eastern Rite Churches may be the solution?

The reason why black Americans are primarily Protestant I think is rather obvious - they were brought over by Protestant British slave traders, purchased by Protestant British plantation owners in Protestant British colonies, and lived in the predominantly Protestant South. In Catholic former colonies, like Louisiana or Maryland, you do have many black Catholics, plus a good number who practice a “hybrid” religion of Catholicism and traditional African religion, i.e. Voodoo.

 

[zz912]

Suburban Catholic Churches are lilly white because the suburbs themselves are lilly white. The midwest suburb I grew up in had no blacks when I was there. Now it is 2% black, while the core city only 8 miles away is 40% black. How did that suburb remain lilly white? Realtors wouldn’t show homes to blacks and banks would “red line” loans to keep them out.

That’s not what redlining is. Redlining is refusing to lend in certain neighborhoods or geographical areas.

 

[irishpatrick]

“Lilly white” means excluding or seeking to exclude blacks, and that is exactly what I was referring to. Nothing wrong with being white. You must have missed my posts in other threads where I suggest that clubs for Europeans be started in our Catholic high schools and colleges, since there are clubs for other ethnic groups. You must have missed my posts on illegal immigration where I disagree with the Bishop’s lobbying for amnesty and citizenship for illegals. In fact, I will be travelling over 200 miles next Saturday to attend a pro-SB1070 rally in Phoenix. I could die of heat stroke, since I already have had strokes.

It’s just that I find an enormous difference between how the Church has historically treated blacks and how it now treats Hispanics.

Apology for calling me a racist expected. Mostly it is Hispanics who call me racist. Never expected it from a fellow Irishman.

No apology given since my view stands the same that the phrase “Lilly white” is a terrible and racist phrase…of course, imo.

 

[Lepanto]

newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/religion_theseeker/2010/05/the-rev-michael-pfleger-tolton-vs-healy.html

Pfleger has worked in a Black parish (more like his fiefdom) for years.

How many young Black men in his parish has he inspired to enter seminary?

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

Pfleger has worked in a Black parish (more like his fiefdom) for years.

How many young Black men in his parish has he inspired to enter seminary?

How irrelevant! Are pastors of white, suburban parishes held to the same standard?

Father Pfleger has erected housing for the elderly, has worked to stop gun violence, to stop predatory advertising practices and has preached against the evils of alcohol addiction and dependence on the lottery, all in his parish. And I know a deacon who came out of his parish.

But outside folks think he has only one note to play. Maybe we could deal with the accuracy of what the pastor said and not delve into personal aspersions concerning him?