The Rich Less Charitable Than Middle Class: Study

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finance.yahoo.com/news/rich-less-charitable-middle-class-183805573.html

Interesting stuff. It appears that BOTH very high income earners AND the most heavily “progressive” populations are monetarily stingy with their personal finances. Who’s making the most sacrificial giving? The middle class.

The article supports a contention I’ve made for a long time now:
The Republican Party leadership is primarily looking out for the new money rich: the small businessmen, the venture capitalists, the entrepenuers.

But, contrary to their propaganda, the Democratic Party is NOT primarily concerned with helping the weak, but in protecting the old money establishment: the trust fund crowd, the corporate board club, those already on the very top of the heap. They do this very sneakily by proposing policies that result in protecting large corporations against new startups (excessive costs of entry), regulations that require vast corporate support staffs to meet compliance with (so small companies can’t expand and enter new markets) and creating regulatory bureacracies that they can stock with their own people to prevent non-insiders from adding competition to the market. This study just demonstrates the TRUE level of personal commitment to the poor exhibited by most “progressives”: not much. It feels good to say “somebody ought to do something, let’s vote for it.” But actually putting your money where your mouth is is where one demonstrates concern for the poor.

It’s an interesting study result and does damage to both sides of the political aisle. The rich really are selfish boors, it turns out. Ironically, so are the ‘bleeding hearts!’ LOL!
 
I’m not too surprised at this. When doing the tootsie roll drive for K of C, I would stand in front of store entrances for donations. While not entirely true, if you saw somebody pull up in a Mercedes with a $100 hairdo, there was a fair chance he/she would try to find another entrance in order to avoid you.

On the other hand, there was a better than even chance that some roughed-over looking guy and his wife with snot-nosed kids in tow would give you paper money, not just change.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Yeah! Thanks for the fiver. Oh, and here’s a kleenex for your kid. :rotfl::rotfl:
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Selling?

We were always told it was a freewill donation. No wonder progressives find it so hard to be charitable when the term “freewill” gets involved
 
Al Gore, Campaign 2000: “I’m for you against the rich and powerful !!!” That from one of the richest, most powerful men in America at the time. :hmmm:
 
hhmmmm…

The rich are stingy and the middle class are more generous…

There is something wrong with this…and I suspect it might have to do with the outlook - the perspective - the “world view” involved…let’s turn it around…

Generous people tend to be middle class because they are more concerned with generosity than with piling up cash. So it is their nature, their generosity that keeps them middle class.
“Stingy” people are more obsessed with piling up cash than with generosity…and these types tend to at least “display” as being wealthier (whether they actually are or not - i.e. the Mercedes and hundred dollar hairdo). So it is their stinginess that allows them to amass more money…

One is middle class here and rich in heaven while one is rich here and poor in heaven…

Of course this is a gross oversimplification but something to consider…

Peace
James
 
JRKH said:
hhmmmm…

The rich are stingy and the middle class are more generous…

There is something wrong with this…and I suspect it might have to do with the outlook - the perspective - the “world view” involved…let’s turn it around…

Generous people tend to be middle class because they are more concerned with generosity than with piling up cash. So it is their nature, their generosity that keeps them middle class.
“Stingy” people are more obsessed with piling up cash than with generosity…and these types tend to at least “display” as being wealthier (whether they actually are or not - i.e. the Mercedes and hundred dollar hairdo). So it is their stinginess that allows them to amass more money…

One is middle class here and rich in heaven while one is rich here and poor in heaven…

Of course this is a gross oversimplification but something to consider…

Peace
James
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I don’t think for a second that generosity keeps the middle class where they are. Evene being generous, you can generally advance “classwise” if the circumstances are right. I’d say most people who stay where they are do so as a results of lack of opportunities, flat wages, and life decisions, not because they are giving away all their money.
 
SamH said:
Selling?

We were always told it was a freewill donation. No wonder progressives find it so hard to be charitable when the term “freewill” gets involved
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Not selling, giving. I’m not a hospital selling one kleenex for five bucks. You seemed to identify yourself with the guy with the snot-nosed kids. Thought I’d lending a helping hand.😉
 
He_Man said:
I don’t think for a second that generosity keeps the middle class where they are. Evene being generous, you can generally advance “classwise” if the circumstances are right. I’d say most people who stay where they are do so as a results of lack of opportunities, flat wages, and life decisions, not because they are giving away all their money.
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Yes. And one size does not fit all. I know a number of very wealthy people who are very generous. You wouldn’t know they were either, but this is a sort of rural-minded area.
I have sometimes said the only way you can tell a millionaire from a factory line worker around here is that the line worker’s pickup is newer. Of course, the millionaire’s deer rifle in his gun rack is likely to be more expensive than the line worker’s. But the millionaire’s boots are dirtier and scuffier than the line worker’s, and never have eagles on them. 🙂
 
He_Man said:
I don’t think for a second that generosity keeps the middle class where they are. Evene being generous, you can generally advance “classwise” if the circumstances are right. I’d say most people who stay where they are do so as a results of lack of opportunities, flat wages, and life decisions, not because they are giving away all their money.
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I think that the two points are:
  1. The generous may not be as interested in “advancing classwise” as the stingy are. With all the opportunities and without flat wages, you pretty much do have to want to be rich to become rich. I don’t. I don’t enjoy expensive clothes, and I don’t like the right kinds of food. (I’ll take a cheeseburger over lobster any day. :D)
  2. Some people may be making the same money that I am, and look a lot richer, because it is important to them to look richer. They spend the money that I give to charity on haircuts and cars. So even without actually being rich, they can sort of look rich.
Not everyone that cares about money becomes rich, of course. But I think most people who become rich care about money. (This is not counting people who inherit money, of course.) And we’re not talking about individuals here, but large groups. Of course some wealthy people are generous, and some middle-class people are stingy. It’s just about general trends.

–Jen
 
revert_jen said:
I think that the two points are:
  1. The generous may not be as interested in “advancing classwise” as the stingy are. With all the opportunities and without flat wages, you pretty much do have to want to be rich to become rich. I don’t. I don’t enjoy expensive clothes, and I don’t like the right kinds of food. (I’ll take a cheeseburger over lobster any day. :D)
  2. Some people may be making the same money that I am, and look a lot richer, because it is important to them to look richer. They spend the money that I give to charity on haircuts and cars. So even without actually being rich, they can sort of look rich.
Not everyone that cares about money becomes rich, of course. But I think most people who become rich care about money. (This is not counting people who inherit money, of course.) And we’re not talking about individuals here, but large groups. Of course some wealthy people are generous, and some middle-class people are stingy. It’s just about general trends.

–Jen
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All true, but say hypothetically you’ve decided to be ultra generous by typical scales and give 20% of your income away regardless of said income. Your standard of living may not seem high, but that isn’t what defines middle class anyway. This 20% does not preclude you from getting raises or advancing your career, or starting a successful business. It just means you net spendable income (not a measure of class in this sense) is always at 80% of your take home.
 
Glad to see that my shift in “world-view” caused so much conversation. 👍
It’s just the sort of thing we need to do in order to not let “the world” define us…
He_Man said:
I don’t think for a second that generosity keeps the middle class where they are. Even being generous, you can generally advance “classwise” if the circumstances are right. I’d say most people who stay where they are do so as a results of lack of opportunities, flat wages, and life decisions, not because they are giving away all their money.
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Very good points.
It was not my intention to say that such was always the case…just as I am sure those who did the study allowed for variation within the “norms” as it were.
My main goal was to simply “expose”, as it were, that the study starts from a certain point that may or may not be valid.
The study seems to look at how monetary standing effects generosity when it may well be that generosity is more apt to effect monetary standing.

And - generosity (in my thinking) does not only mean monetary donations, but time and energy as well. For example…the “rich man” misses his sons soccer games to make money…the middle class man is there because his son is more important than money…Things like that…

And yes you are right that generosity does not prevent one from moving forward…“life decisions” (of which generosity is one) is the far bigger component.
Ridgerunner said:
Yes. And one size does not fit all. I know a number of very wealthy people who are very generous. You wouldn’t know they were either, but this is a sort of rural-minded area.
I have sometimes said the only way you can tell a millionaire from a factory line worker around here is that the line worker’s pickup is newer. Of course, the millionaire’s deer rifle in his gun rack is likely to be more expensive than the line worker’s. But the millionaire’s boots are dirtier and scuffier than the line worker’s, and never have eagles on them. 🙂
Click to expand...
😃
revert_jen said:
I think that the two points are:
  1. The generous may not be as interested in “advancing classwise” as the stingy are. With all the opportunities and without flat wages, you pretty much do have to want to be rich to become rich. I don’t. I don’t enjoy expensive clothes, and I don’t like the right kinds of food. (I’ll take a cheeseburger over lobster any day. :D)
  2. Some people may be making the same money that I am, and look a lot richer, because it is important to them to look richer. They spend the money that I give to charity on haircuts and cars. So even without actually being rich, they can sort of look rich.
Not everyone that cares about money becomes rich, of course. But I think most people who become rich care about money. (This is not counting people who inherit money, of course.) And we’re not talking about individuals here, but large groups. Of course some wealthy people are generous, and some middle-class people are stingy. It’s just about general trends.

–Jen
Click to expand...
Right on Jen…There is no way that any blanket statement will cover everyone…
But like I said, my original post and thought was intended to stir up some thinking and comments - and it has done that
He_Man said:
All true, but say hypothetically you’ve decided to be ultra generous by typical scales and give 20% of your income away regardless of said income. Your standard of living may not seem high, but that isn’t what defines middle class anyway. This 20% does not preclude you from getting raises or advancing your career, or starting a successful business. It just means you net spendable income (not a measure of class in this sense) is always at 80% of your take home.
Click to expand...
This is true…But it could put a damper on things like going back to school (to advance your career) or starting a business (with lower savings/net worth for collateral)…and raises are usually little more than “cost of living” adjustments…
Like I say - you are right that being generous does not prevent…but it can impact ones ability…

Peace
James
 
Ridgerunner said:
Yes. And one size does not fit all. I know a number of very wealthy people who are very generous. You wouldn’t know they were either, but this is a sort of rural-minded area.
**I have sometimes said the only way you can tell a millionaire from a factory line worker around here is that the line worker’s pickup is newer. ** Of course, the millionaire’s deer rifle in his gun rack is likely to be more expensive than the line worker’s. But the millionaire’s boots are dirtier and scuffier than the line worker’s, and never have eagles on them. 🙂
Click to expand...
I can relate. I’m a lawyer, but I grew up on a farm near the Lake Erie shore in Ohio. My wife has consistently driven Jaguars but, for myself, I like to buy a new Ford F-150 every third vehicle. Being in the Washington, DC metropolitan area, it is easy to get caught up in the luxury vehicle habit. I felt self-conscious driving a BMW, Jaguar, or Cadillac during Ohio visits, but very much at home with the F-150 in my particular area.
 
Ridgerunner said:
I have sometimes said the only way you can tell a millionaire from a factory line worker around here is that the line worker’s pickup is newer. Of course, the millionaire’s deer rifle in his gun rack is likely to be more expensive than the line worker’s. But the millionaire’s boots are dirtier and scuffier than the line worker’s, and never have eagles on them. 🙂
Click to expand...
Our company has about 14 employees at our head office - 4 of them are owners. Our truck driver and our mechanic always have the newest and nicest cars in the parking lot. Once in the while a college intern might best them. I remember a college student (months away from graduation) showed up for an interview in a new H2 Hummer, we didn’t think he’d fit in.
 
Tampa_Dave said:
I can relate. I’m a lawyer, but I grew up on a farm near the Lake Erie shore in Ohio. My wife has consistently driven Jaguars but, for myself, I like to buy a new Ford F-150 every third vehicle. Being in the Washington, DC metropolitan area, it is easy to get caught up in the luxury vehicle habit. I felt self-conscious driving a BMW, Jaguar, or Cadillac during Ohio visits, but very much at home with the F-150 in my particular area.
Click to expand...
A good F150 will run about $40,000 - not exactly chump change.
 
A study was done years ago on this and from what I remember,

The most generous in giving to charities went as follows;

Most generous - 1 Conservative people with religious beliefs.
Code: 
                     2 Liberal people with religious beliefs.

                     3 Liberal people with no religious beliefs

                     4 Conservatives with no religious beliefs.
Jim
 
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