The rise of the Pentecostals

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Well in the context of the discussion whether you like it or not i gave an honest opinion of what i believe to be one factor. If somehow this offended you i wont appologize and i find you have a rash attitude for no reason . I have a right to express my opinion as you do and nothing i said was ugly to anyone on this thread. There aremany factors that have lead to therise of the pentecostals but i just named one that in my opinion i thought to be releavant.
 
I once asked a Pentecostal: If Pentecostalism is apostolic Christianity, where are the Pentecostals of the 13th, 7th, and 4th centuries? In other words, where’s the continuity? The community (not church) I grew up in was sorta charismatic, evangelical, non-denom style. Emotionalism turned me off, and I remember wanting to be Lutheran. Pentecostalism is just modern Montanism, which was ruled a heresy.
 
Well in the context of the discussion whether you like it or not i gave an honest opinion of what i believe to be one factor. If somehow this offended you i wont appologize and i find you have a rash attitude for no reason . I have a right to express my opinion as you do and nothing i said was ugly to anyone on this thread. There aremany factors that have lead to therise of the pentecostals but i just named one that in my opinion i thought to be releavant.
I’m not offended. I agree you are entitled to your opinion. And I am entitled to disagree with that opinion.
 
Well daizes you have a blessed day i will find more enjoyable company!
 
We have been in Pentecostal churches in the past that had very solid, Bible believing Christians in them. What we’re seeing now though is that the majority are more interested in the gift of tongues, the music service, the altar calls and so on. I know for fact that one branch of Pentecostal church here in Illinois is following hard after a money trail rather than God. My brother is a pastor in that denomination and for years they have had to send their tithe into the district and not allowed to put it into their own church. Also, they are now loaning money out, have their own banking system.
The Pentecostal/Charismatic is a whole different movement and it is to the core manipulative.
 
The pentacostal churches are on a steady rise in the US. They are the fastest growing denomination in the US.
  1. What makes them so popular?
  2. Are they phsycologicly and/or emotionally manipulative?
  3. Is God blessing these church’s and if so, why?
  1. The ones that do extremely well focus more on small groups and discipleship than others. The pentecostal churches that don’t do as well are the ones that don’t do this very well. The ones that do quite well are the ones that are well organized, good at getting people trained to lead stuff and mentor people, and good at getting people invested and involved in various ways with a heavy emphasis on evangelism.
  2. Emotionally manipulative? Sometimes. Doesn’t have to be, though. But there is a higher than average incidence of it happening in some form or fashion.
  3. Is God blessing these churches? Depends. Sometimes, sure, I guess. I don’t think I can be super definitive there. I’m pretty solid on “sometimes maybe,” though.
 
I once asked a Pentecostal: If Pentecostalism is apostolic Christianity, where are the Pentecostals of the 13th, 7th, and 4th centuries? In other words, where’s the continuity? The community (not church) I grew up in was sorta charismatic, evangelical, non-denom style. Emotionalism turned me off, and I remember wanting to be Lutheran. Pentecostalism is just modern Montanism, which was ruled a heresy.
Where did you find a Pentecostal that claimed that Pentecostalism is apostolic Christianity?

My whole existence in the faith, I never even heard words like " apostolic" or “heresy” and certainly not “montanism”. (though I do now)

Remember we’re talking about sola scriptura. No need to brand them with any other “ism” other than just “Protestantism”. That’s getting away from the OP’s question and more or less “scoring one for the Catholics”

The Pentecostal faith appeals to most because of the charismatic, vocal and emotional style of worship that they do at their services. Also assuming the church goer is comfortable with the pastors sermons. You’re not going to find that at your typical Mass in a Catholic, Episcopalian, Anglican, etc. church that I know of.

That again probably sums up why anyone would have an interst in the Pentecostal church other than feeling guided there by the Holy Spirit. As I was guided to the Catholic church.
 
Swaggert has a channel on dish net, I don’t watch it because I don’t care for his honky tonk piano playying.

Many years ago the parish I was in had a “Life in the Spirit” seminar done by benedictine monks. I got the Holy “ghost”, spoke in toungues etc.

But after a year or so the monastery closed, and we lost our fervor, also moving to another parish did not help.
 
I once asked a Pentecostal: If Pentecostalism is apostolic Christianity, where are the Pentecostals of the 13th, 7th, and 4th centuries? In other words, where’s the continuity? The community (not church) I grew up in was sorta charismatic, evangelical, non-denom style. Emotionalism turned me off, and I remember wanting to be Lutheran. Pentecostalism is just modern Montanism, which was ruled a heresy.
An educated Pentecostal will not tell you that there were Pentecostals as we know them today before the 1900s. What they will tell you is that the miraculous charismatic gifts never ceased. God is always perfecting his church. The Protestant Reformation was one such move of God. Pentecostals believe that Pentecostalism and the charismatic movement are vehicles that God is using to provide a witness to the charismatic dimension of the Spirit’s work in the church today.

There are Oneness Pentecostals who appropriate the “Apostolic” label for themselves. That’s because they believe that their teachings on Oneness and Jesus Name baptism are “apostolic” teaching contained in the New Testament.

I’m sort of confused by your saying that Pentecostalism is basically modern day Montanism. Montanism was a 2nd/3rd century prophetic movement (Montanists called themselves the New Prophecy). It taught that the New Prophets (Montanus, Prisca, and Maximilla) had been granted new revelation by the Holy Spirit that superseded the teachings of the Apostles.

Anyone who knows anything about Pentecostalism will know that Pentecostals are very committed to the final authority of Holy Scripture to determine doctrine. We believe in prophecy because the Bible says we should. We seek for the gift of prophecy to be manifested in our services because Paul tells us to. However, any Pentecostal will tell you that prophecy never trumps Scripture and if someone claims something contrary to the Bible than he is a false prophet.
 
My husband and I are converts (8 years now) from evangelical Protestantism to Catholicism.

My husband grew up in the Assemblies of God, and several of his family members are still involved with this church.

I can’t speak for the other denominations of Pentecostalism, but the Assembles of God, along with many other evangelical non-Pentecostal denominations, encompasses a person’s entire life.

A person who attends the large AG church in our city can literally spend every waking moment, and even the sleeping moments, from birth to death, immersed in their church!

There is a huge thriving daycare which is very affordable because many of the employees consider this part of their ministry and service to God. There is a school that begins at age three and goes all the way through high school, and it is a darn good school with high achievers in academics, athletics, and arts. There is a college on the church campus. Children can attend Sunday school and various clubs from a very young age all the way to middle school. At middle school, the child begins attending the huge and very exciting youth group, which has something going on almost every night. Once the child grows up, they can get married, have children, and remain incredibly active in many different ministries in the church. Or they can seek and find employment at this church–there are a lot of jobs available with such a huge campus, including working in the very nice coffee shop! And of course, this continues all the way through old age, when they can move into the beautiful retirement center and eventually the nursing home on the church campus.

The only thing the church DOESN’T have on their campus is a cemetery!

For the people at the AG church, many of them have all of their friends through the church, and almost all their social activities take place with these friends, and often these social activities are done at the church campus.

Sound fun? It is fun. I have to admit that just yesterday, I was driving by my Catholic parish and thinking, “Wow, I never do anything with anyone in my parish, and other than going to Mass and practicing the organ, I really am not that involved with the parish at all.”

Yes, the ministries and social activities are available in our parish, but it seems to me that Catholics don’t feel any kind of obligation or desire to get involved on a constant basis, and they certainly don’t live their entire lives in and around their church and with church friends. This is a very different mindset than the typical Pentecostal or Evangelical Protestant, who is thrilled to be part of the fellowship in their church.

In fact, “fellowship” is one of the main reasons people are Protestant, and “lack of fellowship” is one of the main reasons people leave Catholic churches.

Now I’m not just talking about socials and banquets–I’m talking about an “immersing” of your entire life in the life of the church and being involved with a large number of the church members and attendees on a regular, often daily basis. THAT’s life in the Pentecostal and Evangelical churches.

I hope I am explaining this adequately. Unless you have lived it, it’s kind of hard to understand the appeal. It’s really very nice.

I play the piano for various church events, especially Masses, and my husband is an usher. That’s pretty much it–we do our little part and that’s all. No “Super Catholic” or hyper-involvement like we had in the evangelical Protestant church–back then, we were involved in our church 5-6 days/evenings a week, and did very little outside of the church (until we started getting involved with figure skating).

I think a lot of people are looking for a true “community” to be part of. I know that conservative and traditional Catholics often scoff at the idea of the “community” model of parish life. But it really is very very nice and satisfying and fulfilling to have a whole ton of friends that you see several times a week, and several very enjoyable ministries in the church that keep you busy and active. I really miss that, and I think it’s one of the big reasons why so many people are drawn to the Pentecostal churches and the various Evangelical churches, especially the non-denoms. It’s a great big life that feels good and lifts up your soul.
This is a good post and it definitely mirrors some of my experiences growing up.

When I first started exploring Catholicism., I was not particular fond of the lack of community. However, I found an awesome TLM with people who enjoy community. Aside from weekly coffee hours, everyone is always going out to eat or for drinks or meeting up for special masses/processions and I have been invited to some get-togethers at people’s homes.

This is probably not typical. I feel blessed.
 
Sad to learn today from CNN, that Evangelicals (mostly AOG) inow comprise 44% already of Brazil’S population and is Mexico will be the next.Few people know that Pentecostals are now the majority in Guatemala and majority of Hispanic youth, over 60% in the USA, now considered themselves ex Catholics!
 
Sad to learn today from CNN, that Evangelicals (mostly AOG) inow comprise 44% already of Brazil’S population and is Mexico will be the next.Few people know that Pentecostals are now the majority in Guatemala and majority of Hispanic youth, over 60% in the USA, now considered themselves ex Catholics!
Sad compared to what?

Secondly, I would question where CNN obtains these numbers…
 
. I know for fact that one branch of Pentecostal church here in Illinois is following hard after a money trail rather than God. My brother is a pastor in that denomination and for years they have had to send their tithe into the district and not allowed to put it into their own church. Also, they are now loaning money out, have their own banking system.
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Sounds like a denomination level of control to prevent abuses by a local church board/administrative pastor. Most in the Pentecostal movement have a congregational based model and the higher denomination do not assert that much authority. In my particular fellowship the church tithes to the international just as the church members are asked to tithe to the local church. Only as a watchdog does the supervisor see the books and can he can discipline the local church council and pastor while the local church has no such power over its members.
 
Where did you find a Pentecostal that claimed that Pentecostalism is apostolic Christianity?
At work. They said I was all debate. I guess I did sorta get away from the OP’s question. I don’t believe Pentecostalism’s growth is from God’s blessing or action. That answers question #3.

False religion blinds people, and having come from there, it (false religion’s blinding power) makes me angry. There is only one true Church.
 
I do believe in the Holy Spirit and know that the Holy Spirit can do many things, but I am unsure if the Pentecostals truly receive those gifts. Of course, that could lead to lengthy thrological arguments over whose religious denomination is correct, so I digress.

As Catholics, I understand that we do not have a high-energy, “filled with the Holy Spirit” service, but I think all the jumping around, hollering, clapping, etc. is a bit irreverent, but that is just my own opinion. I’m still trying to get over seeing “Jesus Camp”. That was some strange (to me, at least) Pentecostalism. I’ll stay with the Catholic Church, thank you.
 
Sad compared to what?

Secondly, I would question where CNN obtains these numbers…
Brazil used to be the largest catholic country in th world,with over 90% catholics,but this was abouit 15 yrs ago.few people know that one of the revered Penteocostal Leader in that country was incarcerated for smashing an statue of Patroness? of Brazil in fornt of millions of people.This enraged the Catholics and even the President,then.Unknowm,if he is still in prison.Few yrs from now,the politics in Brazil will be dictated by Pentecostals.Its not just there,but other Catholic countries that will become Evangelicals eventually.This is occuring in the Philippines,wherin a very powerful sect and is very anti Catholic ,who vote as a block ,has been dictating the govt on how to run it and has been successful in demanding that certain members of their sect be appointed in the upper echelon of the govt e.g. Ambassadors,Cabinet Menbers et al.

I have trust in CNN ,as they have local affiliates e.g. CNN en Espanol,en China,Arab etc.
 
That’s a 2-way street brother. We can’t judge the more from the few. We, more than anyone else, should now that.
You’re right 😊 Sometimes my tone gets overly judgemental.
Set a guard over my mouth, LORD!
 
At work. They said I was all debate. I guess I did sorta get away from the OP’s question. I don’t believe Pentecostalism’s growth is from God’s blessing or action. That answers question #3.

False religion blinds people, and having come from there, it (false religion’s blinding power) makes me angry. There is only one true Church.
[bibledrb]Luke 9:49-50[/bibledrb]

😃
 
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