The rise of the Pentecostals

[ltwin]

Sadly, today my mother inlaw is getting rebaptized by her Pentecostal church because even though they believe baptism is a symbolic event that one must be an adult to accept the symbolism of it. They obviously reject her infant baptism in the catholic church. Even though infant baptism has been a mainstream Christian practice since the apostolic age and there are many many proofs of this. Thusly this church’s teacher, their pastor, a student of rod parsley, must believe that all infant baptisms since the year 33AD are null and void. And doing so reject that Gods shepards, the students of the apostles, fell into serious error directly after the last apostle died. Intrinsic with that logic they must accept that contrary to Christs word, the gates of hell prevailed against the early church and still do to this day.

So, Im guessing that Pentecostals that follow rod parsley, see baptism as nessicary for salvation, and in rejecting infant baptism, are saying most Catholics and orthodox that we’re born into the faith, are hell bound.

Pentecostals (according to our beliefs) are not damning anyone to hell because we reject infant baptism. There is great power in baptism, but we don’t believe its salvific. We do believe however that only believers should be baptized. However, why would we go to the trouble of crafting a baptism theology that would damn our own unbaptized children to hell just so we could insult Catholics? Please

 

[ltwin]

They don’t. I was raised in a pentecostal church. It’s all about the altar call to them. An idea that Christianity never even heard about until George Finney came along in the 1800s.

It’s not “all” about the altar call. We believe the prayer of repentance and proclamation of faith in Christ is the first step. We also believe that when we call on God and ask him to become our lord and savior that we are made new creations. But someone who gets up from the altar for the first time is still a babe in Christ. There is still much more of God that he needs in his life. He needs to begin to build a strong prayer life, immerse himself in the Word, be baptized, seek the infilling of the Spirit, then walk in the Spirit. There is discipleship and Christian formation that has to happen. Answering the invitation to prayer at the altar is just the first step. It is a doorway into the Christian life, not the completion.

 

[just_came_back]

It’s not “all” about the altar call. We believe the prayer of repentance and proclamation of faith in Christ is the first step. We also believe that when we call on God and ask him to become our lord and savior that we are made new creations. But someone who gets up from the altar for the first time is still a babe in Christ. There is still much more of God that he needs in his life.** He needs to begin to build a strong prayer life**, immerse himself in the Word, be baptized, seek the infilling of the Spirit, then walk in the Spirit. There is discipleship and Christian formation that has to happen. Answering the invitation to prayer at the altar is just the first step. It is a doorway into the Christian life, not the completion.

All of these are taught, recommended, and take place in the Catholic church, all without George Finney’s altar call. CCD? Our children go through it ages K-12. The Holy Spirit is deposited onto every believer at their baptism thereby indwelling the believer. Parishes have adult Bible studies. I mean, no offense, evangelicals act like these things are foreign to Catholics. To me, pentes always need to see proof, i.e. the gifts, to see who lives up to their standards. It was always that way growing up in that environment.

 

[ltwin]

All of these are taught, recommended, and take place in the Catholic church, all without George Finney’s altar call. CCD? Our children go through it ages K-12. The Holy Spirit is deposited onto every believer at their baptism thereby indwelling the believer. Parishes have adult Bible studies. I mean, no offense, evangelicals act like these things are foreign to Catholics. To me, pentes always need to see proof, i.e. the gifts, to see who lives up to their standards. It was always that way growing up in that environment.

I have no idea how you grew up, and I am sorry that this was your experience. I can only say what I was taught and what I’ve read of Pentecostal theology. Namely,spiritual gifts can never be regarded as “proof” of salvation or a believers relationship with God or the believer’s spiritual maturity. They are expressions of the love God, given for our and the churches benefit. While speaking in tongues is considered one of many evidences for having received the baptism in the Holy Spirit, it cannot be singled out in isolation. Paul said that if he spoke in the tongues of men and of angels but had not love then he was nothing more than a clanging symbol. Ultimately, the only proof that we could possibly look to would be love, which is the fruit of the Spirit. Jesus’ most important command was to love God and each other.

For me (and I know many Pentecostals feel the same way as I do and others would disagree with me), it is not about thinking that Catholics have it all wrong and Pentecostals have it all right. That’s not how I look at it. However, I’m sure you believe that the Catholic Church has the fullness of the truth. Well, likewise I believe that the Pentecostal faith comes closest to authentic Christianity. There are very many differences between the two traditions, and many Pentecostals don’t understand a lot about Catholicism like many Catholics don’t understand a lot about Pentecostalism. It is easy in such an environment to form wrong opinions based off of past prejudices or because they have seen a ritual or practice that leads them to the wrong conclusions. Sometimes the conclusions might be right, but many times the conclusions we reach through observation of other traditions are framed in ignorance. Before we make judgments about things, we need to have the fullest possible perspective possible. That is one of the main reasons why I come to Catholic Answers. I learn more about Catholicism every time I read a post, and I have a better understanding what Catholics believe and how they express and live out those beliefs. Many times in the light of this new understanding old stereotypes and suspicions are transformed into aspects that truly are positive and make a lot of sense from an historical and theological and biblical perspective.

 

[just_came_back]

I have no idea how you grew up. I can only say what I was taught and what I’ve read of Pentecostal theology. Namely,spiritual gifts can never be regarded as “proof” of salvation or a believers relationship with God or the believer’s spiritual maturity. They are expressions of the love God, given for our and the churches benefit. While speaking in tongues is considered one of many evidences for having received the baptism in the Holy Spirit, it cannot be singled out in isolation. Paul said that if he spoke in the tongues of men and of angels but had not love then he was nothing more than a clanging symbol. Ultimately, the only proof that we could possibly look to would be love, which is the fruit of the Spirit. Jesus’ most important command was to love God and each other.

I wholly agree and again, I won’t apologize for my fervor, however, if I seem less than lovely I truly don’t mean that. From my pentecostal experience, I do harbor a lot of resentment and it’s something that I am working on. I do know oneness pentes state that if one does not speak in tongues, they do not have God within them. A friend of mine works with a guy who is oneness and pretty much lives by that creed. That’s sad. Again, if I’m rough, I apologize and I sincerely mean that. Peace.

 

[just_came_back]

Ooops. Just saw where you added more to your post. Again, agreed. What is so funny is that when our town sponsored church league softball back in the day, the team from our pentecostal church and the Catholic church, of which I am a member now, same RCC I was confirmed in back in 1999, always seem to get along on the ball field more than any of the other teams.

The baptist teams were out for blood when they played and were always arrogant. A lot of folks didn’t exactly show humility. Ah, dang this original sin that has poisoned us since Adam’s fall.

 

[cath4alltime]

But this is what has always IRKED me about pentecostals and I grew up in a pente church. There has always been this arrogance that just because they manifested certains gifts of the spirit and other churches didn’t practice them that “those people” weren’t christians and trust me, I heard it NUMEROUS times from pastors in the pulpit growing up.

I’d say pentecostals attitude is what led me out of that movement more than anything.

You get that in any circle your in. Baptists, Catholics, Schools, etc all have this problem

 

[bri89]

I can’t speak for all pentecostal churches, but I seriously regret being raised in this denomination. In my church, hysterical emotionalism was supposed to be the manifestation of the holy spirit. Music was employed in order to get the congregation to swoon and weep, and this hysteria was called “revival”. I don’t recall reading about how Paul started convulsing on the floor when God spoke to him. I find this “revivalism” mediumistic and shockingly primitive, like a shaman dancing and invoking the spirits to the sound of drums. They also seem to believe that God directly speaks to everyone audibly, not figuratively. It is this alleged direct dialogue with God that I find so disturbing; there were only a handful of people who God reportedly spoke to in the bible, and yet in this denomination you would think Gods speaks to everyone several times a day in an audible voice if you simply invoke him.

 

[ltwin]

I can’t speak for all pentecostal churches, but I seriously regret being raised in this denomination. In my church, hysterical emotionalism was supposed to be the manifestation of the holy spirit. Music was employed in order to get the congregation to swoon and weep, and this hysteria was called “revival”. I don’t recall reading about how Paul started convulsing on the floor when God spoke to him. I find this “revivalism” mediumistic and shockingly primitive, like a shaman dancing and invoking the spirits to the sound of drums. They also seem to believe that God directly speaks to everyone audibly, not figuratively. It is this alleged direct dialogue with God that I find so disturbing; there were only a handful of people who God reportedly spoke to in the bible, and yet in this denomination you would think Gods speaks to everyone several times a day in an audible voice if you simply invoke him.

I’ve never heard a Pentecostal claim to hear God speak in an “audible” voice. However, God does speak to us. Whether it be through his written word or through other Christians who are sensitive to his leading, or through impressions or burdens that the Holy Spirit lays on our hearts. Our God is a God of relationships–he exists as a Trinity. God is our heavenly father. Father’s talk to their children.

My father was (before his diagnoses with alzhiemer’s) an active minister in our church. He had regular times when he would drive out into a field in the country and he would pray and seek God there. As a member of the deacon board God gave him wisdom to handle an incredibly trying time and spiritual battle our church went through. The actions he took angered a lot of people at the time, but when it was all said and done my father’s actions were proved correct. There were times when we would come home from church so discouraged, and my Dad would walk in and say the Lord had showed him things about the situation. No, it was not a detailed report on what actions to take. But it was God reassuring my Dad that God was with him and sustaining him and leading him in the right direction.

I’ve always envied the clarity my Dad possessed for hearing the voice of God. But then I’ve never had the kind of prayer life and drive to seek after God that my father has. My father never told the future or said esoteric or weird stuff. He never said “Thus saith the Lord, give me $500.” He simply testified to times when a situation arose that he did not have the wisdom or knowledge to respond, but God would speak to him and reveal insights into the situation that he did not see before. It was nothing flashy or showy. It was just the gentle voice of God.

My mother is active as an altar worker in our church. Sometimes (and I mean that it is rare that this kind of stuff happens to her) when she is praying for someone God will begin to reveal things about the person she is praying for and will give words of love and healing to her. One time this happened to my mother and the woman she was praying for came up to her after church and asked her to repeat what she had said again and how did she know all of that stuff about her. My mother could only tell her that the Lord showed it to her and that she didnt remember much of what she said because the Lord meant it for the woman and when God speaks to her like that it really doesnt stay with her long. My mother doesn’t have any control over this. She can’t turn it on and turn it off. It happens when God wants it to.

The Bible says if we seek we shall find. If we seek to draw closer to God and become more open to hearing his voice when he is speaking to us, we will find what we seek. God is able to speak to us about the most mundane trials we may face. He loves us. He cares about us. He knows the number of hairs on our heads. Why is it so difficult to imagine that our father wants to speak to his children and cares about their lives, however ordinary or trivial they may seem.

(It goes without saying that we should always use wisdom and discernment whenever someone claims to receive any kind of detailed, specific, or suspect “communications” with God).

 

[PeterJohn]

Of course Gos speaks to us. I agree with you although I am skeptical when it comes to God giving personal revelations to people. I agree with Pentecostals in that people speak in toungues and are moved by the power of the spirit, but speaking in toungues in almost all pentecostal church’s frequently makes me skeptical. The fact Pentecostals can just ignore what the church has been for the majority of years since Christs death and resurrection, and simple hold a revival on their own accord, makes me very skeptical. I don’t believe in once saved always saved or that baptism is only a symbol or that each Pentecostal community teaches different things. Unity in kind and spirit. One body, of faith, one baptism. How can Pentecostalism differ within itself. Is the holy spirit guiding these churches in teaching things that oppose? The holy spirit is not the author of confusion.

 

[ltwin]

Of course Gos speaks to us. I agree with you although I am skeptical when it comes to God giving personal revelations to people.

You may be skeptical. I’m skeptical sometimes. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

I agree with Pentecostals in that people speak in toungues and are moved by the power of the spirit, but speaking in toungues in almost all pentecostal church’s frequently makes me skeptical. The fact Pentecostals can just ignore what the church has been for the majority of years since Christs death and resurrection, and simple hold a revival on their own accord, makes me very skeptical. I don’t believe in once saved always saved or that baptism is only a symbol or that each Pentecostal community teaches different things. Unity in kind and spirit. One body, of faith, one baptism. How can Pentecostalism differ within itself. Is the holy spirit guiding these churches in teaching things that oppose? The holy spirit is not the author of confusion.

Pentecostals don’t believe in once saved always saved. We believe it is possible to backslide.

 

[AbideWithMe]

I’ve never heard a Pentecostal claim to hear God speak in an “audible” voice. However, God does speak to us. Whether it be through his written word or through other Christians who are sensitive to his leading, or through impressions or burdens that the Holy Spirit lays on our hearts. Our God is a God of relationships–he exists as a Trinity. God is our heavenly father. Father’s talk to their children.

My father was (before his diagnoses with alzhiemer’s) an active minister in our church. He had regular times when he would drive out into a field in the country and he would pray and seek God there. As a member of the deacon board God gave him wisdom to handle an incredibly trying time and spiritual battle our church went through. The actions he took angered a lot of people at the time, but when it was all said and done my father’s actions were proved correct. There were times when we would come home from church so discouraged, and my Dad would walk in and say the Lord had showed him things about the situation. No, it was not a detailed report on what actions to take. But it was God reassuring my Dad that God was with him and sustaining him and leading him in the right direction.ki

I’ve always envied the clarity my Dad possessed for hearing the voice of God. But then I’ve never had the kind of prayer life and drive to seek after God that my father has. My father never told the future or said esoteric or weird stuff. He never said “Thus saith the Lord, give me $500.” He simply testified to times when a situation arose that he did not have the wisdom or knowledge to respond, but God would speak to him and reveal insights into the situation that he did not see before. It was nothing flashy or showy. It was just the gentle voice of God.

My mother is active as an altar worker in our church. Sometimes (and I mean that it is rare that this kind of stuff happens to her) when she is praying for someone God will begin to reveal things about the person she is praying for and will give words of love and healing to her. One time this happened to my mother and the woman she was praying for came up to her after church and asked her to repeat what she had said again and how did she know all of that stuff about her. My mother could only tell her that the Lord showed it to her and that she didnt remember much of what she said because the Lord meant it for the woman and when God speaks to her like that it really doesnt stay with her long. My mother doesn’t have any control over this. She can’t turn it on and turn it off. It happens when God wants it to.

The Bible says if we seek we shall find. If we seek to draw closer to God and become more open to hearing his voice when he is speaking to us, we will find what we seek. God is able to speak to us about the most mundane trials we may face. He loves us. He cares about us. He knows the number of hairs on our heads. Why is it so difficult to imagine that our father wants to speak to his children and cares about their lives, however ordinary or trivial they may seem.

(It goes without saying that we should always use wisdom and discernment whenever someone claims to receive any kind of detailed, specific, or suspect “communications” with God).

It sounds like you’ve been blessed by your parents, Itwin.

May your family continue to know God is with your father through his illness.

 

[ltwin]

It sounds like you’ve been blessed by your parents, Itwin.

May your family continue to know God is with your father through his illness.

Thank you. He was diagnosed relatively recently. We’re still praying for healing, but right now we all just feel an amazing sense of God’s peace in our lives. He has everything under control.

 

[Taestron]

I have this half-baked theory that Pentecostals are the low church counterpart to mystics. While there are certainly differences between St. Teresa and my Pentecostal friends, they seem to be differences of method and not aim. Sometimes to discover God, we must do rather strange things. And sometimes the discovery itself is very strange.

 

[ltwin]

I have this half-baked theory that Pentecostals are the low church counterpart to mystics. While there are certainly differences between St. Teresa and my Pentecostal friends, they seem to be differences of method and not aim. Sometimes to discover God, we must do rather strange things. And sometimes the discovery itself is very strange.

The scholar Margaret Poloma wrote a book on the Toronto Blessing (which by the way I do not support) titled *Main Street Mystics; The Toronto Blessing and Reviving Pentecostalism *

 

[Taestron]

The scholar Margaret Poloma wrote a book on the Toronto Blessing (which by the way I do not support) titled *Main Street Mystics; The Toronto Blessing and Reviving Pentecostalism *

Interesting, maybe my theory isn’t so half-baked after all. I’ll have to read it sometime. Thanks for the recomendation.

 

[RileyG]

Some things Pentecostals do I don’t understand at all.
Are Assemblies of God, Oneness Pentecostal, Church of Nazerne, Apostolic Church of Christ, Church of God etc all considered one? How do you explain speaking in tongues, etc? Unfortunately, I’ve had bad experiences, so forgive me for my ignorance

Thank You.

God Bless!! +

 

[RileyG]

My aunty is an evangelical pentacostal. The way she speaks about the pope and Our Lady makes me cry. I personally cannot stand being around her when she starts talking about the Bible and how the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon. I don’t know if God really has blessed this church, because some of them say some really horrifying and mean things about the Bride of Christ.

I 100% agree. If anyone, regardless of religion they practice, calls the RCC the Harlot of Babylon, it makes me want to rip my hair out.

 

[Cat]

It is my belief that of all the Protestant denominations, Pentecostals are the most likely to convert to Catholicism.

They believe in miracles and accept them as the norm for Christians.

In my husband’s Assemblies of God church, missionaries testified of seeing people raised from the dead after several days of death!

Pentecostals regularly pray for and experience miraculous healings and other wonders.

So when they are confronted with the teaching of the True Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, it’s easy for them to accept it. They’ve seen the Lord do other miracles, so they don’t doubt that if He said “This is My Body,” and “This is My Blood”–it really IS His Body and Blood!

Another reason why Pentecostals are more likely to convert to Catholicism is that they worship with their senses, just like Catholics. Pentecostals like to sing, dance, sway, raise their hands, kneel, and prostrate themselves during the worship service (Catholics use many different physical postures and positions during Mass, especially in the EF Mass). Pentecostal churches often feature various physical displays such as special lighting (Catholic church buildings feature physical displays such as artwork, scultures, windows, etc.). And of course there’s the music–Pentecostals enjoy singing “in the Spirit” and are used to hearing and singing hymns that are not in their own language (Catholics like to sing in Latin). And they are extremely emotional, often crying over their own sins and guilt.

This is so different than many other evangelical denominations, which teach that the senses are to be suppressed and that we should worship with our minds, not with our bodies.

 

[ltwin]

Some things Pentecostals do I don’t understand at all.

That’s OK. We feel the same way about Catholics.

Are Assemblies of God, Oneness Pentecostal, Church of Nazerne, Apostolic Church of Christ, Church of God etc all considered one?

If we are talking about classical Pentecostals, there are two groups: Trinitarian Pentecostals (the majority) and Oneness Pentecostals (which are unitarian). There are 740 recognized Pentecostal denominations throughout the world.

Let me be clear: Trinitarian Pentecostals believe that all born again Christians are saved (we also believe it is possible to BACKSLIDE). Trinitarian Pentecostals do NOT believe that speaking in tongues is a requirement to be saved. We don’t even believe that being Pentecostal is a requirement to be saved.

Around 80 out of the 740 denominations are Oneness Pentecostals or “Jesus’ Name” or “Apostolic” (as they refer to themselves). These deny the doctrine of the Trinity. They believe in water baptism using the formula “In the Name of Jesus Christ” or similar. They also believe that water baptism and Spirit baptism with the evidence of speaking in tongues are experiences essential to being saved. Therefore, if one has not spoken in tongues they are not really saved.

Now that we have that out of the way lets talk about the others. The Church of the Nazarene is a Wesleyan-holiness church. It is NOT a Pentecostal church. The first Pentecostals were Wesleyan-holiness Christians. However, the established holiness churches, the Nazarene Church being one of them, rejected speaking in tongues as the initial physical evidence of the Spirit baptism.

The Assemblies of God and Church of God are the two largest Pentecostal churches in the world. The AG has 60 million worldwide; the Church of God has a smaller number. They are very similar, but their theologies have slightly different flavors. The Church of God (Cleveland, TN) and its offshoots have a Wesleyan-holiness or Methodist background and influence. The Assemblies of God has a Baptistic or Reformed flavor. In America, the Church of God has its strength in the Southern USA. The American AG’s strength is in other places.

Overall, the differences are more cultural, historical, or methodological than theological. A member of the AG will be very comfortable in a Church of God most likely and vice versa.

In North America, the trinitarian Pentecostal and Charismatic churches fellowship together as part of the Pentecostal/Charismatic Churches of North America. Worldwide, trinitarian Pentecostal churches fellowship together in the Pentecostal World Conference. There is cooperation and understanding between the different denominations.

How do you explain speaking in tongues, etc?

You want the traditional answer?

Based on the pattern we observe in the Book of Acts, speaking in unknown tongues is believed to be the initial physical evidence of the baptism in the Holy Spirit. It is not the only evidence, just a physical one.

The Holy Spirit dwells inside of all Christians.

The baptism in the Holy Spirit is not conversion or salvation. It occurs after the conversion experience or new birth. It is when the Spirit comes upon a believer to give him or her more strength and more power to live the Christian life. The baptism in the Holy Spirit is a filling with the Spirit. It is a “clothing with power from on high.”

Those filled with the Spirit can continue to make use of this unknown language in prayer. Our minds are unfruitful but our spirits pray (1 Corinthian 14: 13-15). This is useful when we do not know how to pray.

The other form of speaking unknown tongues is the gift of tongues. This is a spiritual gift that allows a believer to speak in unknown tongues under the direction of the Holy Spirit to give a word or message to the assembled congregation. This message must be interpreted by the gift of interpretation. This is laid out in 1 Corinthians 14.

Unfortunately, I’ve had bad experiences, so forgive me for my ignorance

Thank You.

God Bless!! +

God bless you too.