The rise of the religious left

[Catherine_D]

Who said voted for a pro-choice candidate is a “mortal sin”?

It would appear you need to research a little bit more if you are going to understand Catholics.

The Church has been pretty unequivocal about this subject. Catholics cannot support a pro-abortion politician unless there is no other choice. If there are two “pro-life” candidates, then they can make their choice on other issues, with their conscience as their guide, a conscience that should properly be educated by Catholic values. Similarly, if there are only pro-death candidates, then obviously the choice must be made on other issues.

Unfortunately, many Catholics rationalize their choices in various ways, but the fact of the matter is that the very situation of Obama being elected President indicates that there are many Catholics in this country who were, at least at the time of the election, in mortal sin, since they had a pro-life alternative and made a different choice.

For a faithful Catholic, Life issues trump all else, for the simple reason that without life, everything else is irrelevant.

I’m not sure what you mean by

Maybe, but the trend is moving opposite to what you claim here. So I am not sure, other than “hope,” what would make you think that something else will happen. No one doubts that a zygote is the beginning of a human’s life. This has not been in debate.

I disagree with your statement, but I think you misunderstood what I was saying. Regardless, I will answer what you wrote. Radical anti-Life factions have gone out of their way to diminish life, calling a zygote a variety of things, even including a parasite, in an effort to de-humanize babies in the womb. This sort of perfidy, in turn, makes it easier for some people to kill these babies, even up to the moment of birth, as long as the baby has not yet exited the birth canal. Late-term abortion is infanticide, pure and simple, and it has been made possible by the ridiculous assertion that, until they are born, these babies don’t have the right to life. But it’s murder (maybe not LEGALLY but definitely morally) and anyone who doesn’t understand this needs their head examined.

However, my previous point was that, with increasing information and understanding, people, particularly young women, will realize that, if they choose an abortion, they are not merely getting rid of a temporary inconvenience, not merely sloughing off some inconvenient cells, but they are killing a baby. That knowledge may make a difference. We have to make that information available in spite of the noise of the very strident (and very profit driven) abortion lobby, but I have faith that TRUTH will succeed.

People are finding out that the truth is not how the pro-abortion faction makes it out to be. And when they find out that Roe v. Wade was targeted to reduce the sort of people “we don’t want” they wake up even faster. This is a murder syndicate, no different than organized crime, apart from the fact that it is both sanctioned and funded by the government, with the express purpose of limiting the population of undesireables. In other words, eugenics in action. I can’t imagine why anyone would support it, but they do.

 

[larkin31]

It would appear you need to research a little bit more if you are going to understand Catholics.

It is a large part of why I am here. It is why I asked the question. So thanks for answering it, I think.

The Church has been pretty unequivocal about this subject. Catholics cannot support a pro-abortion politician unless there is no other choice. If there are two “pro-life” candidates, then they can make their choice on other issues, with their conscience as their guide, a conscience that should properly be educated by Catholic values. Similarly, if there are only pro-death candidates, then obviously the choice must be made on other issues.

I was specifically asking about the “mortal sin” claim you made. Has the RCC called it this?

Unfortunately, many Catholics rationalize their choices in various ways, but the fact of the matter is that the very situation of Obama being elected President indicates that there are many Catholics in this country who were, at least at the time of the election, in mortal sin, since they had a pro-life alternative and made a different choice.

It’s the bolded part I am asking about.

I disagree with your statement, but I think you misunderstood what I was saying. Regardless, I will answer what you wrote. Radical anti-Life factions have gone out of their way to diminish life, calling a zygote a variety of things, even including a parasite, in an effort to de-humanize babies in the womb. This sort of perfidy, in turn, makes it easier for some people to kill these babies, even up to the moment of birth, as long as the baby has not yet exited the birth canal.

No one here is doing this.

Late-term abortion is infanticide, pure and simple, and it has been made possible by the ridiculous assertion that, until they are born, these babies don’t have the right to life. But it’s murder (maybe not LEGALLY but definitely morally) and anyone who doesn’t understand this needs their head examined.

You begin rationally, but then resort to ad hominem argument. I will decline to reply in this low coin.

 

[Catherine_D]

It is a large part of why I am here. It is why I asked the question. So thanks for answering it, I think.

I was specifically asking about the “mortal sin” claim you made. Has the RCC called it this?

YES, the support of abortion is a mortal sin.

It’s the bolded part I am asking about.

Again, YES, the support of abortion is a mortal sin.

No one here is doing this.

Perhaps not, but this in the environment of this issue in the world at large.

You begin rationally, but then resort to ad hominem argument. I will decline to reply in this low coin.

Sorry that you think that having moral clarity somehow equates to a personal attack. You own that one, not me. I attacked no one, I merely questioned the very idea that murder was “OK”. In stating the opposite, are you saying you approve of murder? Or that you just approve of murder of innocent babies? Who is it that you believe it is OK to kill? That is the position that you have carved for yourself.

The Church has been unequivocal in its support of life, from conception until natural death. Not everyone else is as clear and consistent on the subject of life. The Church has been entirely consistent.

For a Catholic, it doesn’t always matter what some civil law says. Indeed, Catholics are required by faith to resist an unjust law. Abortion rights is one of those unjust “laws” that we are required to resist (although I’m not so sure it’s a “law”, more like merely a [questionable] interpretation.)

Regards,

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Unfortunately, many Catholics rationalize their choices in various ways, but the fact of the matter is that the very situation of Obama being elected President indicates that there are many Catholics in this country who were, at least at the time of the election, in mortal sin, since they had a pro-life alternative and made a different choice.

You are in error. The fact of Obama’s election says nothing about the state of sin of Catholics. A Catholic in the state of mortal sin might have voted for McCain.

The choice wasn’t only Obama or McCain. There were other candidates available, and there was also the alternative I chose - not to vote for President, not for Obama (because of his inexperience) and not for McCain (because of his running mate).

 

[Catherine_D]

You are in error. The fact of Obama’s election says nothing about the state of sin of Catholics. A Catholic in the state of mortal sin might have voted for McCain.

The choice wasn’t between Obama and McCain. There were other candidates available, and there was also the alternative I chose - not to vote for President, not for Obama (because of his inexperience) and not for McCain (because of his running mate).

I disagree with your assessment. I reject your conclusion.

There are actually intellectually valid conclusions that do not comport with the conclusions of the American left. I know that it is a facility of the Left to discard every other thought but theirs, but that doesn’t make their conclusions right, nor does it make alternative conclusions wrong.

And now sir, I will say goodbye. Have a nice life.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

I disagree with your assessment. I reject your conclusion.

There are actually intellectually valid conclusions that do not comport with the conclusions of the American left. I know that it is a facility of the Left to discard every other thought but theirs, but that doesn’t make their conclusions right, nor does it make alternative conclusions wrong.

And rightwingers don’t have their own fixed and rigid views, discarding every other thought but theirs, huh?

And now sir, I will say goodbye. Have a nice life.

Your choice to walk away.

 

[larkin31]

Sorry that you think that having moral clarity somehow equates to a personal attack. You own that one, not me. I attacked no one, I merely questioned the very idea that murder was “OK”. In stating the opposite, are you saying you approve of murder? Or that you just approve of murder of innocent babies? Who is it that you believe it is OK to kill? That is the position that you have carved for yourself.

I have “carved” nothing for myself here. You made the “head examined” statment all by yourself, which you know does nothing but suggest a “crazy” smear. I am not here to debate abortion (please notice that I am not doing so). You seem to want to both pick a fight and label your opponents as crazy. No one here is trying to defend abortion, nor is the thread title about it.

The Church has been unequivocal in its support of life, from conception until natural death. Not everyone else is as clear and consistent on the subject of life. The Church has been entirely consistent.

No one said they weren’t.

For a Catholic, it doesn’t always matter what some civil law says. Indeed, Catholics are required by faith to resist an unjust law.

Then get out and “resist” already! It’s your right (protected by law, whether you value the law or not).

Again, back on the topic, there is a religious left rising, in part, as a reaction to the economic hardships of the times and of the polarization that is occurring on some social issues. This development should be no surprise. This religious left also tends to gain traction in times of war. This, too, should be no surprise.

 

[Catherine_D]

I have “carved” nothing for myself here. You made the “head examined” statment all by yourself, which you know does nothing but suggest a “crazy” smear. I am not here to debate abortion (please notice that I am not doing so). You seem to want to both pick a fight and label your opponents as crazy. No one here is trying to defend abortion, nor is the thread title about it.

You seem confused. Too bad.

Again, back on the topic, there is a religious left rising, in part, as a reaction to the economic hardships of the times and of the polarization that is occurring on some social issues. This development should be no surprise. This religious left also tends to gain traction in times of war. This, too, should be no surprise.

You know what, without labeling you, so that you can go and cry foul, I am done with you. I do not IN ANY WAY concede anything. But I am tired of the silliness, and EVIL, including those of the positions of the PRO DEATH lobby, which you seem to support. This evil is anethema to me. I recoil at it. It’s disgusting. It’s a mystery to me why other people do not understand how evil MURDER is. But somehow, they actually support it. Not me.

I have never seen anything but DEATH from the PRO-DEATH faction of this world, so I reject even your characterization that there is anything else. They want to kill babies that are inconvenient to their lives. That’s their choice. I also have the choice to believe that’s wrong. End of story.

Have a nice life. Peace be with you. I will never read anything else you post, so don’t bother.

 

[larkin31]

Have a nice life. Peace be with you. I will never read anything else you post, so don’t bother.

The first two sentences in this closing seem quite insincere. I don’t know why people write this kind of thing when they do not mean it.

So, anyway, back to the topic with the rest of you?

 

[donsnow]

Catholics on both the left and the right do that. There aren’t Catholic values, but that someone will have trouble with them. The Pope is against abortion? He’s a reactionary. The Pope opposes the death penalty? He’s a knee-jerk liberal.

I see consistency in the Pope’s stand on abortion and capital punishment. I used to be for the death penalty and against abortion, euthanasia and assisted suicide, until a priest mentioned to me how that wasn’t consistent. Now, I’m against the death penalty, too.

Yeah, I’m inconsistent again, to tout Catholic values, when I disagree with the reallocation of wealth. No excuse. I’ll give it some more thought and try to understand the Church’s position.

Thanks for reminding how self-contradictory people can be.

 

[ManOnFire]

Since when do Democrat blacks and hispanics have anything to do with changing the secular leftist platform of the party? Recent history shows as long as they get their handouts (welfare, amnesty, etc.) they’re happy and seem to have no desire to change the Democrats historic secular leftist pro-abortion, gay rights, “everyone’s a victim” platform and mentality. Those who rob Peter to pay Paul can always count on the political support of Paul.

Ishii

this is a classic example of people who are selling out for the sake of a buck. Once the volume of people has grown enough to vote largesse for themselves, the country will go bankrupt.

Leftist Media entertainment has surpassed God in the public eye. People are addicted to it. If you don’t believe it, just ask a random sample of people if they’d rather give up Church or give up their TV. People pray to it despite it’s ruinous lust, promotion of drugs and violence, and it’s destruction of innocence. This article is propaganda. If people want the preservation of True Love, they’ll stop selling out to this leftist soft porn society. Money can’t buy True Love.

 

[larkin31]

this is a classic example of people who are selling out for the sake of a buck. Once the volume of people has grown enough to vote largesse for themselves, the country will go bankrupt.

Leftist Media entertainment has surpassed God in the public eye. People are addicted to it. If you don’t believe it, just ask a random sample of people if they’d rather give up Church or give up their TV. People pray to it despite it’s ruinous lust, promotion of drugs and violence, and it’s destruction of innocence. This article is propaganda. If people want the preservation of True Love, they’ll stop selling out to this leftist soft porn society. Money can’t buy True Love.

How do you feel about internet chatrooms and blogging? Is this where all the righteous people hang out?

 

[ManOnFire]

How do you feel about internet chatrooms and blogging? Is this where all the righteous people hang out?

Why don’t you tell me. I joined 4 days after you, yet you have made 3000 posts and I have 400.

The opposite of right is wrong. I’m just tired of watching the Regressives enslave people into acting on the basic instincts for brain pleasurism via leftist godless sex, drugs, and violence. . Kids grow up in it. Media Entertainment creates the culture, not God any longer. Then we pretend to wonder why it’s getting worse. Then we pretend that money can replace values. Then we continue to fund our own enslavement. It doesn’t need to be this way. We can free willingly choose to reduce our exposure to it.

I feel like writing a letter to them, begging them to put a 5 year moratorium on their profitable oppression of us so that we can catch our breaths. THAT would be all the charity we would need. I bet they won’t do it. It’s too much fun for entertainment media to turn itself into god, while praising the close-minded people as being open-minded, enlightened, and in style.

The poor in the U.S. should go as far to the RIGHT as possible. We have enough money for survival. Now, let’s save souls, relationships, and True Love. True Catholicism doesn’t care what you look like or how old you are. The true beauty is in helping people to avoid casual sex, drugs, and violence in favor of truly “getting it.” Let’s remove people from the temptations or remove the temptations from the people!

 

[larkin31]

Why don’t you tell me. I joined 4 days after you, yet you have made 3000 posts and I have 400.

I don’t have anything against internet chatrooms, nor would I assail the values of media while on an internet chatroom that includes advertizing. Obviously, the answer is to turn off the tv, be more selective in the movie theaters, and be careful on the internet. Straighten one’s own personal habits, then one’s own house, then one’s neighborhood, then one’s town, etc.

I feel like writing a letter to them, begging them to put a 5 year moratorium on their profitable oppression of us so that we can catch our breaths.

Fine. Just ask CAF to do the same thing. Get the ads and the banners off these posting pages.

Let’s remove people from the temptations or remove the temptations from the people!

God put that delicious fruit right in the middle of the Garden. Jesus went purposely for 40 days to the wilderness. I, for one, don’t mind temptation. It’s a pass/fail test. Seems reasonable, and to be expected.