The roles of homosexuals in society and spiritual life

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Argh

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I cant help but feel a little weird over the Church’s and some people’s view of homosexuals. I cant help but feel that most Catholics have relegated all homosexuals, including those who **are **leading a life of chastity, to second-class Catholics.

On one hand people seem to think and say that chaste homosexuals are doing the right thing and not persuing their sexual orientation. But they seem completly against homosexuals being able to be active or visible in society or spiritual life.

It seems that no one wants their kids anywhere near a homosexual relative or teacher for fear that that person might teach their kids a homosexual lifestyle (by this I assume homosexual acts and not a nicely decorated house with designer furniture or something) is acceptable. Some people are chasing homosexuals out of mass and treating their biological or adopted children like trash.

Setting aside the debate on what causes homosexuality, what are homosexuals supposed to do?
 
My approach has been the same to them as anyone else: If you are knowingly sinning and publicly proclaiming it, I don’t want you around my kids. If you are striving to live a virtuous life, then I don’t care what your “orientation” is. In striving to be a model Christian, you are OK by my lights.

And these all deserve dignified treatment in and by the Church, so long as they strive for the virtuous life.
 
If they are truly living a chaste life, they no different than heterosexuals we are unmarried and chaste. And I see no reason to treat them any different!

If they are not living a chaste life then treat them like you would any hetero person who was not married and committing the sin of fornication.

Love them, as we are called to do, I’m the first one to stand up and say I’m also a sinner. I dont’ believe because I’m heterosexual that I’m a better person. We all have our sins.

However, heterosexual or homosexual, I don’t want the influence of sex out of marriage around my kids. I want them to have positive role models in this regard.
 
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Argh:
I cant help but feel a little weird over the Church’s and some people’s view of homosexuals. I cant help but feel that most Catholics have relegated all homosexuals, including those who **are **leading a life of chastity, to second-class Catholics.

On one hand people seem to think and say that chaste homosexuals are doing the right thing and not persuing their sexual orientation. But they seem completly against homosexuals being able to be active or visible in society or spiritual life.

It seems that no one wants their kids anywhere near a homosexual relative or teacher for fear that that person might teach their kids a homosexual lifestyle (by this I assume homosexual acts and not a nicely decorated house with designer furniture or something) is acceptable. Some people are chasing homosexuals out of mass and treating their biological or adopted children like trash.

Setting aside the debate on what causes homosexuality, what are homosexuals supposed to do?
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I agree with those that spoke before me. A mortal sin is a mortal sin. If a person knows that they are tempted toward homosexuality and refrains from the temptation then they are living morally and I have no issue with that. The Bible says that even Christ was tempted in the desert. I do not however, want my children around those that act on and even embrace this lifestyle, as it is an offense to God. Additionally, I do not allow my children to hang out with drunks, prostitutes, or drug users for the same reason.

You asked what homosexuals are supposed to do. I’d say the same thing to an adulterer. Stop sinning. Sounds simple and I know that it is harder than it sounds, but that’s the solution. If a drunk asked the say question, I’d give the same answer. If the person needs help not to commit the sin, then he/she should seek out that help.
God bless.
 
Look do you think there is a sign hanging around every homosexual’s neck stating his sexual proclivities? IF a homosexual IS chaste or is at least not making his sex life public then the reality is that no one will KNOW about it and thus a homosexual would not be treated ANY DIFFERENTLY than any other person. For all I know the man standing next to me at Mass is a homosexual. But unless he has some burning desire to share his problems with a complete stranger, I will remain very happily UNAWARE.

Being a homosexual is not obvious like being female. I don’t know why people think homosexuals are ‘ill treated’ by the church. What they do in their bedrooms should be their problem. I do not want to share and have no clue why so many want the world to know about their personal, private business.
Lisa N
 
Lisa N:
Look do you think there is a sign hanging around every homosexual’s neck stating his sexual proclivities? IF a homosexual IS chaste or is at least not making his sex life public then the reality is that no one will KNOW about it and thus a homosexual would not be treated ANY DIFFERENTLY than any other person. For all I know the man standing next to me at Mass is a homosexual. But unless he has some burning desire to share his problems with a complete stranger, I will remain very happily UNAWARE.

Being a homosexual is not obvious like being female. I don’t know why people think homosexuals are ‘ill treated’ by the church. What they do in their bedrooms should be their problem. I do not want to share and have no clue why so many want the world to know about their personal, private business.
Lisa N
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Right.

Chastity means fidelity. It means being FAITHFUL to God’s commandments and His Holy Church.

How silly is it that people feel the need to tell people what they like and who they like to have sex with??

“Hi, my name is jlw, and I am a financial advisior and a heterosexual…”

“Hi, my name is jlw, and I am a *heterosexual *Catholic…”

“Hi, my name is jlw, and really like to think of women in a *sexual *way”

"Hi, my name is jlw, and I approved this message…:

That’s what homosexuals sound like when they MUST call attention to themselves. Rediculous.
 
Lisa N:
Look do you think there is a sign hanging around every homosexual’s neck stating his sexual proclivities? IF a homosexual IS chaste or is at least not making his sex life public then the reality is that no one will KNOW about it and thus a homosexual would not be treated ANY DIFFERENTLY than any other person.
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How about those guys that others might have strong suspicions of being homosexual? Maybe they might seem too effeminate. Or maybe someone, who’s closer to them, might’ve divulged their sexual proclivities. If we don’t actually know those guys, should we dismiss the information as gossip?

Or what if we learned about them from reliable sources, but still don’t know where they stand as far as living the Church’s teachings, what then?
 
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Argh:
I cant help but feel a little weird over the Church’s and some people’s view of homosexuals. I cant help but feel that most Catholics have relegated all homosexuals, including those who **are **leading a life of chastity, to second-class Catholics.

On one hand people seem to think and say that chaste homosexuals are doing the right thing and not persuing their sexual orientation. But they seem completly against homosexuals being able to be active or visible in society or spiritual life.

It seems that no one wants their kids anywhere near a homosexual relative or teacher for fear that that person might teach their kids a homosexual lifestyle (by this I assume homosexual acts and not a nicely decorated house with designer furniture or something) is acceptable. Some people are chasing homosexuals out of mass and treating their biological or adopted children like trash.

Setting aside the debate on what causes homosexuality, what are homosexuals supposed to do?
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Your post is full of false assertions. The real question to ponder is why does our culture increasingly accept perversion as normal. Why does the Church, especially in the West, have so many homosexual priests and so many dissidents that “bend” the teaching about authentic sexual expression.

BTW, “gay” men or women should not have children as if it were an authentic family. This is what we know from Church teaching and common sense.
 
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Viajero:
How about those guys that others might have strong suspicions of being homosexual? Maybe they might seem too effeminate. Or maybe someone, who’s closer to them, might’ve divulged their sexual proclivities. If we don’t actually know those guys, should we dismiss the information as gossip?

Or what if we learned about them from reliable sources, but still don’t know where they stand as far as living the Church’s teachings, what then?
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Obviously it depends on the context. However with respect to someone attending mass, I am not going to take it upon myself to point out real or suspected homosexuals. IOW is it any of our business? This issue is between them and God unless it’s made public. I think we are called to love one another and if we are ignorant of someone’s private sins we can’t assume anything.

Public sin (wearing rainbow sash or participation in homosexual organizations) is a different story. We are not asked to accept and embrace others’ sins. I do not want the Church to encourage or affirm this behavior under the guise of 'charity.

Lisa N
 
I’m not sure if this is what argh was getting at or not, but I think at times there’s the tendency to say “I disagree with homosexuals” or “being around homosexuals is wrong” etc. without making the distinction between those who are actively living a sinful lifestyle and those who are seeking a chaste lifestyle. The majority of us on this forum know that, but I think we can mislead others with our words sometimes by not making that distinction. Christian’s views on homosexuality often come up with my non-Christian friends and their perception is often that we, as Chrisitans/Catholics, think that people who are gay are bad, an abomination, etc. etc. So I think we could do a lot of good by fully explaining church teaching on this issue, that no matter what a person’s sexual “orientation” might be they are called to a life of chastity given their state of life. Just my initial thoughts.
 
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goravens:
I’m not sure if this is what argh was getting at or not, but
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Actually it seems that argh is trying to get at a few thoughts and is asking the readers to clarify some confusion for him.
I hope the following example will help clarify Argh’s confusion.
  1. I have a Catholic brother with a homosexual partner.
  2. I have another Catholic brother who has been married to his wife 25+ years.
  3. My husband has a Catholic brother who has had a string of female partners none of which he has married - do you get my drift.
  4. My husband has another Catholic brother who lives a single, and celibate life.
Which two brothers do you think my children spend the most time with?
If you picked brother number 2 and 4 you are CORRECT!

Explanation: BROTHERS 2 & 4 ARE LIVING EXAMPLARY CHRISTIAN LIFESTYLES. BROTHERS #2&4 MAKE THE MOST TANGLIBLE AND OBVIOUS EFFORT TO BE OBEDIENT TO GOD’S WILL… BROTHERS #1&2 ARE NOT. NO LOVING KNOWLEDGABLE PARENT WILLFULLY EXPOSES THEIR OFFSPRING TO ANY IMMORAL SITUATION THAT COULD NEGATIVELY IMPRESS THEM FOR A LIFE TIME.
 
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Argh:
Setting aside the debate on what causes homosexuality, what are homosexuals supposed to do?
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As has been so eloquently stated above, homosexuals are supposed to do their best to live the Gospel in their state of life.
The problem is that many homosexuals are trying very hard to be awarded minority status and full acceptance, based solely on their sexual attraction. In order to do that, they have to tell us what they do in the bedroom by wearing rainbow sashes or just merely stating their “sexual orientation.”
They are children of God and are therefore to be loved, but the Church teaches that they have a disorder and that if they act out their proclivities, they are living in sin, almost like the unmarried heterosexual couple cohabiting.
I add the qualifier because the heterosexual couple can repent, confess, marry in the Church and have children.
A homesexual couple can never do that.
 
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Argh:
I cant help but feel a little weird over the Church’s and some people’s view of homosexuals. I cant help but feel that most Catholics have relegated all homosexuals, including those who **are **leading a life of chastity, to second-class Catholics.
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Homosexual Catholics are first-class Catholics because they are loved by a first-class Father, the same Father of all Catholics. And this Fathers calls homosexuals to shun and shed their homosexuality with the help of His grace. If they follow Christ’s call, their homosexuality will be eradicated, one day or another, by God’s love and they will be healthy saints in God’s kingdom.
 
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Argh:
I cant help but feel that most Catholics have relegated all homosexuals, including those who **are **leading a life of chastity, to second-class Catholics.

On one hand people seem to think and say that chaste homosexuals are doing the right thing and not persuing their sexual orientation. But they seem completly against homosexuals being able to be active or visible in society or spiritual life.

It seems that no one wants their kids anywhere near a homosexual relative or teacher for fear that that person might teach their kids a homosexual lifestyle ?
Click to expand...
If a person happens to have a homosexual orientation and yet is living chastely, then there is no way anyone can know of their homosexuality, therefore no way someone can discriminate against them because of it. The coming out, the overt declaration of that condition is part of the gay lifestyle, and that is what many people object to, because it is based on the need to act on, in some cases publicly, flagrantly and offensively, that disordered sexual impulse. Homosexuals are called to practice the same virtue as all other Christians for their state in life: chastity. We don’t change the rules for some people, there are 10 commandments and they apply to everyone. They have the same place in the Church all other Catholics do: to follow their vocation, to obey the commandments and the precepts of the Church, to be disciples of Jesus, to serve, to love, to evangelize.
 
Well stated puzzleannie. I simply cannot figure out why homosexual activists do not understand that they cannot simultaneously deliberately draw fire and then complain when ‘shot’ at. Flagrant displays, rainbow sashes, gay clubs in schools, gay pride parades and activities demand public recognition and it’s not always going to be positive. You can’t have it both ways.

Lisa N
 
I have no problem being around gay people who are living a chaste lifestyle. Although actively being gay is a sin, fornication and adultery are also mortal sins. I believe any sex outside of marriage is a sin, regardless of whether it is sex between homosexuals or heterosexuals. Therefore, I don’t feel like I am discriminating against gay people.

Karen
 
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Viajero:
How about those guys that others might have strong suspicions of being homosexual? Maybe they might seem too effeminate. Or maybe someone, who’s closer to them, might’ve divulged their sexual proclivities. If we don’t actually know those guys, should we dismiss the information as gossip?

Or what if we learned about them from reliable sources, but still don’t know where they stand as far as living the Church’s teachings, what then?
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none of your business, what on earth would you be doing discussing a person’s sex life with a third party? that is a sin right off the bat. Do we routinely go around asking friends, neighbors, teachers, fellow parishioners:
are you gay?
are you cheating on your wife?
are you divorced, remarried without annulment?
are you contracepting?
do you cheat on your taxes?
do you exploit your workers?

no Christian worthy of the name spends time and energy contemplating, guessing, speculating on the sins of others, his time will be entirely occupied by dealing with his owns sins, evil proclivities and need for contintuing conversion.
 
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puzzleannie:
none of your business, what on earth would you be doing discussing a person’s sex life with a third party? that is a sin right off the bat. Do we routinely go around asking friends, neighbors, teachers, fellow parishioners:
are you gay?
are you cheating on your wife?
are you divorced, remarried without annulment?
are you contracepting?
do you cheat on your taxes?
do you exploit your workers?

no Christian worthy of the name spends time and energy contemplating, guessing, speculating on the sins of others, his time will be entirely occupied by dealing with his owns sins, evil proclivities and need for contintuing conversion.
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:amen: puzzleannie. My sentiments exactly.

Lisa N
 
They have to remain virgins, but I dont think, like most people in this thread that they have to keep their orientation a secret.
 
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