The roles of homosexuals in society and spiritual life

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They have to remain virgins, but I dont think, like most people in this thread that they have to keep their orientation a secret.
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Why would we have a need to know about someone’s sexual proclivities? This is something I cannot fathom so maybe you can explain why. Other than a spouse, with whom you have a sexual relationship, do you generally ask about others’ or offer to casual acquaintences information about your sexual practices? Do you walk up to someone in mass or on the street or at work and ask about specific sexual activity?

IOW I do not understand, other than in certain specific circumstances, that ANYONE’S sexlife should be a public issue. To me this is private information that does not need to be shared with anyone but a spouse and possibly a doctor if a medical condition requires it. Just not fodder for casual conversation IMO.

But maybe you can explain to me why we need this much sharing.

Lisa N
 
Lisa N:
Why would we have a need to know about someone’s sexual proclivities? This is something I cannot fathom so maybe you can explain why. Other than a spouse, with whom you have a sexual relationship, do you generally ask about others’ or offer to casual acquaintences information about your sexual practices? Do you walk up to someone in mass or on the street or at work and ask about specific sexual activity?

IOW I do not understand, other than in certain specific circumstances, that ANYONE’S sexlife should be a public issue. To me this is private information that does not need to be shared with anyone but a spouse and possibly a doctor if a medical condition requires it. Just not fodder for casual conversation IMO.

But maybe you can explain to me why we need this much sharing.

We need this much sharing because there still is so much hatred that is directed towards homosexuals. Most homosexuals are not perverts, yet much of society treats them like they are. Most homosexuals are not sick individuals, yet much of society treats them like they are. They have been continually vilified in our society, they have been raped, attacked and abused–by *heterosexuals. *Once upon a time in America African-Americans were considered to be less-than whites, more sexually promiscuous, more violent, more abberrant, etc, etc. This is how many heterosexuals think of homosexuals and this is why many homosexuals feel the need to educate others about themselves–to demonstrate that they are just human beings like heterosexuals are. Obviously heterosexuals still think homosexuality is an abberration, otherwise there would be no need to ask why we *still *need more sharing on this issue.

Try walking a mile in their moccasins.

Lisa N
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There is a stigma that seems to be overlooked, yet it is based on the false pretense of rumor.

Doesn’t society seem to have a ‘stigma’ for anyone who is Single. It is as if, either you are married or a religious, then that person is fine. But once someone finds out you are single,t hen an invisible barrier seems to be placed. This ‘barrier’ is the implications that one may think of, ‘Why is this person single?’

There just seems to be this ‘warning light’ that comes one that someone is single. Mothers sometimes wonder if their single child will ever get married…or is there something ‘wrong’ with him/her.

Yes, a chaste life is extrememly important in keeping in line with the Church and Christ, regardless os a sexual ‘attraction’.

Still most of this ‘assumption’ about people is purely gossip.
 
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Asking:
They have to remain virgins, but I dont think, like most people in this thread that they have to keep their orientation a secret.
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my sexual orientation and love life is none of your business
yours is none of my business
that of the people in the pews, people at work, my neighbors is none of my business.
My concern with other peoples’ character traits, proclivities and activities behind closed doors begins only when it poses a threat to me, my children, or society. It is an offense against charity to speculate on the sins or propensities to sin of other people. please change the topic and let us all direct our concern to prayer for the deceased pope and to invocation to the Holy Spirit for guidance for the Church at this time.
 
Night Rider, you need to use the beginning and ending quote to cut your response out of my previous quote. Unfortunately you did not respond to the question: IF a homosexual does not share his/her sexlife with the general public, then how are these homosexuals singled out for the persecution that you claim (but do not prove) occurs with some frequency.

In no way do I condone persecution, unjustified discrimination or cruelty toward homosexuals or any other group. OTOH do you think there is some way of identifying homosexuals on sight? IOW it’s relatively easy in most cases to determine if a person is female, if they are African American, or if they are physically handicapped. I know a number of homosexuals. I could not have identified them on sight and neither should anyone else. There are no gaydar machines on the streets, in schools or in churches.

Again please tell me how all of these homosexual are identified and persecuted IF they do not share their sex lives with the general public? IOW is there anything wrong with ‘the closet’ as far as ANYONE’S sex life? Does it matter to my employees what I do in bed? How about the people I meet at church? Do they know? Should they know? Would they care?

You fall into the trap that I see over and over. Somehow equating a specific sexual practice with something that is as innate and obvious as gender or race. It’s not.

Lisa N
 
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NightRider:
cant seem to quote the answer to why we need so much sharing i.e. to end groundless abuse of homosexuals. Hate crimes are just that, no matter who they are directed against. They arise out of disordered responses to traits, proclivities, actions, or affiliations possessed by other persons which are perceived to be a threat. We do not need to share intimate details of our lives with each other and the general public in order to fight hate crimes. We need to embrace the Gospel to fight hate crimes.

If I base my response, attitude and treatment of an individual on rumor, gossip, innuendo, false assumptions arising out of my own prejudices, that is a sin and precisely what is warned against in the Gospel admonition against judging others. I repeat, this concern with scrutinizing other people is unhealthy.
 
It is when people find out that someone is homosexual that the abuse begins, because anything different than heterosexuality is so widely considered abberrant. The perpetrators of violence of all kinds against homosexuals want to put that homosexual back in the closet, where no one can see her/him. But first they want to attack them and scare them into never speaking out again. How dare they be proud of who they are? That is what the homosexual faces on a day-to-day basis.

If heterosexual people refuse to listen to the stories of homosexuals then the heterosexuals will NEVER believe that homosexuals suffer for their sexual identities. Just like earlier in the last century when most white people had absolutely NO interest in the life experiences of African-Americans, because the whites believed the African-American stories were not pertinent to them, the whites. In fact, African-Americans were not even truly considered *American. *And to this day there is still rampant racism, in spite of education. It is difficult and tireless work, fighting bigotry of all kinds.

Homosexuals are the modern-day lepers. If they were not, why would people feel so inclined to keep them away, to keep them in “the closet”? Why does it bother you so much that they want to be accepted for who they are? Why does it bother you so much that they speak out and want to be heard?

Why does it bother you so much to listen to them? Why does it bother you so much that they are proud of who they are as human beings? After all, most Catholic Christians are pretty darn proud of who we are as human beings. Why can’t homosexuals feel the same?

In my opinion, homosexuals are pretty darn courageous for speaking out against bigotry against them. They are pretty darn courageous to face constant criticism and condemnation from so-called Christians.

A favorite bumpersticker of mine prays,“Lord Jesus, please protect me from your followers.” So many Christians are sooooo self-righteous and unloving. It just blows my mind.

Whatever happened to “He who is without sin cast the first stone”??
 
if you have been around a while and read my comments on similar sites you will see that a considerable part of my professional and personal life has been devoted to listening to the stories of self-identified gays, and to those of homosexuals (not the same thing, some overlap). What I am reacting to in the original post and the ensuing discussion is first the assumption that sinful actions of individual Christians directed at homosexual persons somehow represent and arise from official Church teaching, and second, the assumption that anyone, homosexual or otherwise, is obliged to explain any aspect of his life to others in order to deserve civility and respect.
 
Thank you for your last post, puzzleannie, I completely concur with you. I just see so many so-called Christians backing up their hatred of homosexuals with what they consider “Christian teaching.” That irks me to no end, because it is soooooo unloving! I know this is not what you are doing, my friend. Thanks again for writing. Many blessings!
 
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NightRider:
A favorite bumpersticker of mine prays,“Lord Jesus, please protect me from your followers.” So many Christians are sooooo self-righteous and unloving. It just blows my mind.

Whatever happened to “He who is without sin cast the first stone”??
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You jab at many people in your post. I refuse to duplicate your qoute filled with your homosexual agenda. Seeing it once in this thread was more than enough.

Most Catholics and Christians know about homosexuality. Most homosexual express themselves today. Don’t talk to me about suppression. Most Catholics know and hear and most don’t like it. Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo hear me and the many others who use this forum.
A favorite bumper sticker of mine reads
“everytime I am open minded my brain falls out”
I am not losing any brains over you.
 
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NightRider:
It is when people find out that someone is homosexual
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How would they find out? Why?
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NightRider:
that the abuse begins,
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What abuse? Do you think this is commonplace? Please provide some examples. Stories like Mathew Shepherd have been proved to have little or nothing to do with homosexual persecution
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NightRider:
because anything different than heterosexuality is so widely considered abberrant.
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Why would anyone know about someone’s sex life? Why would I or anyone else KNOW enough about someone else’s sex life to judge whether or not it’s abnormal.
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NightRider:
The perpetrators of violence of all kinds against homosexuals want to put that homosexual back in the closet,
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Again what is wrong with ‘the closet’ with respect to anyone’s sex life? How does our sexual practice impact your school, your employment, or your housing situation?
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NightRider:
How dare they be proud of who they are? That is what the homosexual faces on a day-to-day basis
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Yes be proud of who you are. Be proud of what you have accomplished. But what is there about sex practices that is a source of pride?
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NightRider:
If heterosexual people refuse to listen to the stories of homosexuals then the heterosexuals will NEVER believe that homosexuals suffer for their sexual identities…
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What stories? About your sex life? Why do you think anyone wants or needs to know?
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NightRider:
It is difficult and tireless work, fighting bigotry of all kinds…
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Again I think you are living in the past. I agree there WAS rampant racism, particularly in certain parts of the country. I don’t believe it’s the case today. Again if you wish to actually provide facts instead of theories and impressions I would be interested to hear it.
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NightRider:
Homosexuals are the modern-day lepers. Why does it bother you so much that they speak out and want to be heard?.
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I’m sorry but that is HILARIOUS. Lepers? Let’s see we have homosexuals at all levels of government, entertainment, athletics, fashion and art. Somehow I just do not see people avoiding Versace’s clothing line because it was started by a homosexual.

Again, how do we bigots identify all of you homosexuals so that we may have the apparent daily opportunities to persecute you? Again I have consistently said, I don’t look at a person and decide they are a homosexual. I see a person at mass I don’t agonize about their sex life. Why is this such an issue with you? Why does anyone need to KNOW about your sex practices if they are not either your therapist or a very very intimate friend.
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NightRider:
Why does it bother you so much to listen to them? Why does it bother you so much that they are proud of who they are as human beings? After all, most Catholic Christians are pretty darn proud of who we are as human beings. Why can’t homosexuals feel the same? "??
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Listen to what? THeir bedroom hijinks? No you are right I’m not interested in listening to that. Again, pride in yourself as a child of God as a human being has almost NOTHING to do with your genitalia. Why must homosexuals insist they be identified by a sexual practice instead of their wholeness?

Well this is getting way long but I’d really like to see some evidence of all this persecution. I have been friends with homosexuals LONG before it was in fashion and I really have seen little if any bigotry and certainly none in recent years.

Lisa N
 
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Binney:
You jab at many people in your post. I refuse to duplicate your qoute filled with your homosexual agenda. Seeing it once in this thread was more than enough.

Most Catholics and Christians know about homosexuality. Most homosexual express themselves today. Don’t talk to me about suppression. Most Catholics know and hear and most don’t like it. Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo hear me and the many others who use this forum.
A favorite bumper sticker of mine reads
“everytime I am open minded my brain falls out”
I am not losing any brains over you.
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Thank you so much for showing yourself, especially since you obviously have NO Christian love and compassion for those who disagree with you. Congratulations.
 
Nope, I am not a homosexual, contrary to what Binney and Lisa N claim.

Buh-bye. I’m done. Congratulations!
 
Lisa N has hit the nail smack dab on the head

please read it KNIGHTRIDER
 
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NightRider:
Nope, I am not a homosexual, contrary to what Binney and Lisa N claim.

Buh-bye. I’m done. Congratulations!
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I am sorry you were unwilling to engage in a discussion and respond to the very issues you raised. Maybe you will have the opportunity to do some research and return so we can engage in a dialogue.

Lisa N
 
Lisa N:
I am sorry you were unwilling to engage in a discussion and respond to the very issues you raised. Maybe you will have the opportunity to do some research and return so we can engage in a dialogue.

Lisa N
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I lost ALL desire to engage in any “discussion” or “dialogue” with you whatsoever. I do not need to do any research. I grew up around homosexuals in my family since the 1950s. I am a heterosexual Catholic nearing fifty years of age. So-called Christians burned our house down because one of my parents was gay. I was continually ostracized from school because one of my parents was gay. Our car was continually egged and damaged because one of my parents was gay. I was forbidden to be friends with certain youths because one of my parents was gay. No persecution?? You have NO IDEA.

So–I am not interested in continuing any further correspondence with anyone about any of this anymore until they’ve walked a mile in my mocassins. Goodbye.
 
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NightRider:
I lost ALL desire to engage in any “discussion” or “dialogue” with you whatsoever. I do not need to do any research. I grew up around homosexuals in my family since the 1950s. I am a heterosexual Catholic nearing fifty years of age. So-called Christians burned our house down because one of my parents was gay. I was continually ostracized from school because one of my parents was gay. Our car was continually egged and damaged because one of my parents was gay. I was forbidden to be friends with certain youths because one of my parents was gay. No persecution?? You have NO IDEA.

So–I am not interested in continuing any further correspondence with anyone about any of this anymore until they’ve walked a mile in my mocassins. Goodbye.
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Well thank you. For refusing to engage in discussion you actually made my point.

HOW LONG AGO WAS THIS? You are my age. Things were different when we were kids. My point is that homosexuals may have been persecuted as were African Americans in the past. This is no longer a major issue in my experience. I am sorry you suffered from persecution as a child just as I am sorry that black children didn’t get to eat at the same lunch counter as white children.

OTOH what on earth does an experience 40 years ago prove about today? There is a bestseller about a black family that moved to a white suburb and was attacked with guns. Do you think that happens now?

Lisa N
 
Lisa N:
Well thank you. For refusing to engage in discussion you actually made my point.

HOW LONG AGO WAS THIS? You are my age. Things were different when we were kids. My point is that homosexuals may have been persecuted as were African Americans in the past. This is no longer a major issue in my experience. I am sorry you suffered from persecution as a child just as I am sorry that black children didn’t get to eat at the same lunch counter as white children.

OTOH what on earth does an experience 40 years ago prove about today? There is a bestseller about a black family that moved to a white suburb and was attacked with guns. Do you think that happens now?

Lisa N
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*Experiences, *not just an isolated experience “40 years ago.” It still happens all over the country and just because you don’t know about it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Very little has changed, especially in rural America. And yes, black families are still attacked with guns by whites, and they still suffer crossburnings. Both such things happened in my area just last year. I have a friend who was beaten by a group of heterosexual white men a few months ago just for being a homosexual. So yes–it still happens. So go ahead and have the last word all you want. It doesn’t make you right. God bless you and once again, goodbye.
 
What is new here?
Two wrongs don’t make a right?
Making a wrong (homosexuality) right doesn’t solve anything either.
Simple.
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NightRider:
I lost ALL desire to engage in any “discussion” or “dialogue” with you whatsoever. I do not need to do any research. I grew up around homosexuals in my family since the 1950s. I am a heterosexual Catholic nearing fifty years of age. So-called Christians burned our house down because one of my parents was gay. I was continually ostracized from school because one of my parents was gay. Our car was continually egged and damaged because one of my parents was gay. I was forbidden to be friends with certain youths because one of my parents was gay. No persecution?? You have NO IDEA.

So–I am not interested in continuing any further correspondence with anyone about any of this anymore until they’ve walked a mile in my mocassins. Goodbye.
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