The roles of homosexuals in society and spiritual life

[Lisa_N]

*Experiences, *not just an isolated experience “40 years ago.” It still happens all over the country and just because you don’t know about it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Very little has changed, especially in rural America. And yes, black families are still attacked with guns by whites, and they still suffer crossburnings. Both such things happened in my area just last year. I have a friend who was beaten by a group of heterosexual white men a few months ago just for being a homosexual. So yes–it still happens. So go ahead and have the last word all you want. It doesn’t make you right. God bless you and once again, goodbye.

Bless you as well. I see you are very scarred by these incidents.

I disagree that there is daily and frequent violence toward either homosexuals or African Americans. These kind of incidents tend to make the national news even if they were in isolated rural areas. Look at the brouhaha over the Mathhew Shepherd that turned out to be a drug deal gone bad, rather than a homosexual hate crime. The James Bird case that WAS a racially motivated crime made headlines all over the world. I dare say that were these incidents frequent we would hear about them. Since I have not heard of anything other than the aforementioned I have to conclude there are isolated incidents rather than a pattern of hate crimes.

I realize you have your mind made up and I am again sorry for your sad childhood.

Lisa N

 

[TheGarg]

Lisa N:

Being a homosexual is not obvious like being female.

he he, this isn’t always true

I agree with the general consensus, as long as homosexuals abandon any behaviour that glorifies the homosexual lifestyle, and work hard at remaining chaste…then great…

I use food as a drug, so i so my best to not do that, and I don’t promote that poeple use food to make them happy…it is harmful physically, mentally, and emotionally…

 

[Lisa_N]

TheGarg:

he he, this isn’t always true …

I have very good gaydar, honed in the days when most homosexuals were in the closet. OTOH much of the affectation is a put on that can be turned off or on depending on circumstances. One of my homsexual contacts can be very campy when he’s out on the town but in a business meeting is completely straight in appearance and action. Another very close friend would NOT be obvious to anyone. He is a professional in a small town and prefers to keep his sex life private from the general public. A few very close friends know. That’s it.

OTOH if you have some foo foo mincing and fluttering his hands about it’s pretty obvious that he is TELLING us he is homosexual. I have a real hard time with anyone who claims these mannerisms are hardwired in. They are learned behavior and attention getting manuvers.

TheGarg:

I agree with the general consensus, as long as homosexuals abandon any behaviour that glorifies the homosexual lifestyle, and work hard at remaining chaste…then great…

.

Exactly. I know a number of homosexuals and quite honestly we discuss what we DO have in common. Our sex lives or sexual activity are never on the agenda.

Lisa N

 

[fix]

*Experiences, *not just an isolated experience “40 years ago.” It still happens all over the country and just because you don’t know about it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Very little has changed, especially in rural America. And yes, black families are still attacked with guns by whites, and they still suffer crossburnings. Both such things happened in my area just last year. I have a friend who was beaten by a group of heterosexual white men a few months ago just for being a homosexual. So yes–it still happens. So go ahead and have the last word all you want. It doesn’t make you right. God bless you and once again, goodbye.

I do not believe everything I read or hear. Anyone can make any claim online. The truth is those with SSAD have a tremendous influence in our society today and are using it to attack authentic morality and turn what is wrong into right. It never will happen.

 

[Asking]

well, maybe not you, but If a man, is, lets say, 35 and isnt married, lives alone, and never had a girlfriend, most people start wandering, and to ask this guy questions, and probably the parents of this guy asked him the same things a few years earlier, and he had to tell them he had that problem, you know.

 

[Lisa_N]

Asking:

well, maybe not you, but If a man, is, lets say, 35 and isnt married, lives alone, and never had a girlfriend, most people start wandering, and to ask this guy questions, and probably the parents of this guy asked him the same things a few years earlier, and he had to tell them he had that problem, you know.

But this still begs the question that puzzleannie brought up. As Catholics why on earth would we be engaging in speculation about someone’s sexlife, lack thereof, or sexual proclivities? I don’t understand our society’s purient interest in what should be private matters. Also while one poster suggested that homosexuals are subject to routine persecution, I have a hard time believing someone would be attacked simply because they lived alone, were not married, or didn’t date someone of the opposite sex.

My mom used to say “It’s none of your business” when I asked inappropriate questions. I wish that phrase would come back in style.

Lisa N

 

[Other_Eric]

Hi Guys!

Reading through this thread, I perceive that many believe that the homosexual attractions that a man experiences would be known only to him, God, and perhaps the individual’s spiritual director. I think, however, that this notion is overly simplistic.

The implication involved in requiring such reticence from a homosexual is that “coming out” would be a sin. Obviously this can’t be the case for private disclosure unless one is ready to say that Courage, in encouraging disinterested intimacy between individuals who experience same-sex attractions, is fomenting an evil. Nor can it strictly be the case for public disclosure either unless every book of testimonial written by an “Ex-Gay” should be considered sinful. I think it’s appropriate to ask how much withdrawal from common, intimate, non-sexual association one requires of the homosexual.

It also ignores the very real threat of the sin of scandal. The example given on here was of an individual in his mid-thirties, who is not married and does not date. Let me add and even more potent example. Assume two of these individuals are living together. Now there exists a probable reason to assume that these individuals might be engaging in sexually illicit behavior and if they do nothing to correct this misperception (by making a public declaration, for example) then they are “conveying a public image of sinfulness that weakens society’s moral fabric and encourages others to actually engage in sinful behavior by making it seem socially acceptable.”

 

[Lisa_N]

Other Eric:

Hi Guys!

Reading through this thread, I perceive that many believe that the homosexual attractions that a man experiences would be known only to him, God, and perhaps the individual’s spiritual director. I think, however, that this notion is overly simplistic.

Why? How many HETEROSEXUALS discuss their sex lives with the general public? How many of us insist on “Heterosexual Pride Day” or “Heterosexual Questioners Club” or having specific heterosexual practices taught in schools?

I mean do we really want or need to know? My point has been that we relate to many people in different ways. Most people we relate to in a completely non-sexual way. I do not relate sexually to my co-workers, my boss, my female friends, people in line at the grocery store, my hairdresser, my priest or people in my parish or on the various committees that I am involved with. Being married I have a sexual relationship with one person. I just don’t think anyone else has either the desire or need to know what I do in bed.

However for some unfathomable reason homosexuals think they must interject their sexuality into completely non-sexual interactions and relationships. Frankly I do not care if the man selling flowers is a homosexual. We are discussing flowers not sex. I don’t care if my horse trainer likes boys.I just want him to train my horse. Make sense?

Why MUST homosexuals insist on putting a sexual ‘face’ on non-sexual relationships?

Lisa N

 

[Kevin_Walker]

Excuse me, but a ‘chaste’ homosexual is still a homosexual, i.e. irrational. Homosexuality is a mental health disorder and not a preference. All homosexuals in society must be kept away from positions of authority requiring emotional stability and clarity of thought.

It there were no homosexuals in the Catholic Priesthood, the sexual abuse scandal would never had occured.

 

[Asking]

Lisa N:

Why? How many HETEROSEXUALS discuss their sex lives with the general public? How many of us insist on “Heterosexual Pride Day” or “Heterosexual Questioners Club” or having specific heterosexual practices taught in schools?

I mean do we really want or need to know? My point has been that we relate to many people in different ways. Most people we relate to in a completely non-sexual way. I do not relate sexually to my co-workers, my boss, my female friends, people in line at the grocery store, my hairdresser, my priest or people in my parish or on the various committees that I am involved with. Being married I have a sexual relationship with one person. I just don’t think anyone else has either the desire or need to know what I do in bed.

However for some unfathomable reason homosexuals think they must interject their sexuality into completely non-sexual interactions and relationships. Frankly I do not care if the man selling flowers is a homosexual. We are discussing flowers not sex. I don’t care if my horse trainer likes boys.I just want him to train my horse. Make sense?

Why MUST homosexuals insist on putting a sexual ‘face’ on non-sexual relationships?

Lisa N

most heterosexual men brag about their sexual conquests, normal men say, hey, looks at that ***, most men talk a lot about women.

 

[eptatorata]

Kevin Walker:

All homosexuals in society must be kept away from positions of authority requiring emotional stability and clarity of thought.

You should have told that to Alan Turing before he broke the German Enigma cypher.
Lisa N:

Why MUST homosexuals insist on putting a sexual ‘face’ on non-sexual relationships?

Ever worn gender-specific clothing, like a skirt? Why MUST women insist on putting a sexual ‘face’ on non-sexual relationships?

 

[Lisa_N]

eptatorata:

Ever worn gender-specific clothing, like a skirt? Why MUST women insist on putting a sexual ‘face’ on non-sexual relationships?

Uh, what ARE you talking about? I’m afraid your arguments are way too obtuse.

Gender roles and sexual roles are two different things.

Lisa N

 

[Lisa_N]

Asking:

most heterosexual men brag about their sexual conquests, normal men say, hey, looks at that ***, most men talk a lot about women.

Red herring. Frankly do you really think that mature adult males spend a lot of time discussing their private lives with people on the street? Do you? If so I certainly pity your wife.

Further do heterosexuals make their sex lives a PUBLIC issue? Do they discuss their sex lives with people on the street? Do they march in parades carrying signs about their sex practices?

Lisa N

 

[Kevin_Walker]

eptatorata:

You should have told that to Alan Turing before he broke the German Enigma cypher.

Psychopaths and/or sociopaths do very well in society, look at Stalin, Lenin, Trotsky, Mao Tse Tung, Castro, Martin Luther King, etc.

Dr. Alan Turing was not in a strategic decision making position as a high level technician.

 

[eptatorata]

Lisa N:

Further do heterosexuals make their sex lives a PUBLIC issue?

I am not aware of homosexuals making their sex lives a public issue. Does your mind fill in the blanks or do they announce the specific acts they perform?

 

[eptatorata]

Kevin Walker:

Psychopaths and/or sociopaths do very well in society, look at Stalin, Lenin, Trotsky, Mao Tse Tung, Castro, Martin Luther King, etc.

Does anybody else share the opinion that Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was a psychopath and/or sociopath?

 

[tuopaolo]

I am open to that possibility. I don’t know enough about him to agree or disagree with Kevin.

 

[puzzleannie]

Asking:

well, maybe not you, but If a man, is, lets say, 35 and isnt married, lives alone, and never had a girlfriend, most people start wandering, and to ask this guy questions, and probably the parents of this guy asked him the same things a few years earlier, and he had to tell them he had that problem, you know.

I don’t think this way, no one in my family thinks this way, no one I have ever worked with thinks this way. maybe I just don’t hang out with people who make unwarranted uncharitable assumptions about other people based on aspects of their personal life. maybe you need new friends if “most people” you know think this way.

 

[Other_Eric]

Lisa N:

Why? How many HETEROSEXUALS discuss their sex lives with the general public? How many of us insist on “Heterosexual Pride Day” or “Heterosexual Questioners Club” or having specific heterosexual practices taught in schools?

I mean do we really want or need to know? My point has been that we relate to many people in different ways. Most people we relate to in a completely non-sexual way. I do not relate sexually to my co-workers, my boss, my female friends, people in line at the grocery store, my hairdresser, my priest or people in my parish or on the various committees that I am involved with. Being married I have a sexual relationship with one person. I just don’t think anyone else has either the desire or need to know what I do in bed.

However for some unfathomable reason homosexuals think they must interject their sexuality into completely non-sexual interactions and relationships. Frankly I do not care if the man selling flowers is a homosexual. We are discussing flowers not sex. I don’t care if my horse trainer likes boys.I just want him to train my horse. Make sense?

Why MUST homosexuals insist on putting a sexual ‘face’ on non-sexual relationships?

Lisa N

Hi Lisa!

I gave examples in my first post that would require even a chaste homosexual to disclose his sexuality publicly, or risk living in a different kind of sin. Moreover, I think you fail to acknowledge that the homosexual must be allowed some type of friendship where he could be free to at least disclose the struggles that he has as a result of his condition. If he does not, then Courage is a fraud. It’s all well and good to focus on oneself first by saying things like “do we really want or need to know” but sooner or later maturity and compassion about the subject must set in and realize that the homosexual cannot remain in a self-imposed bubble separate from the rest of society.

 I suppose your first instinct would be to again refer to the parades, the clubs in school or the rainbow sashes, point to lurid and sexually explicit entertainment or perhaps set up a radical queer activist as a paragon of the things in the culture you decry. You would be right, they are all excessive but it would be both foolish and ignorant not to acknowledge that each of these has a strong counterpart on the other side of the aisle. The entire culture is awash is sexuality, not just the homos. Further, it completely ignores the possibility of a chaste existence and reduces the homosexual from a man to a string of sexual encounters.

It also seems that your prohibition would extend to even the benign ways in which people relate to each other. A fourteen-year-old girl giggling with her friends over how “cute” she finds a male classmate is just one example of the sort of casual way in which heterosexuals make their own sexual preference explicit in way that you would find beyond the pale if the same situation involved a homosexual attraction. Moreover, you have to take it further and the homosexual would have to make himself a pariah in order not to give offense to such tender sensibilities such as yours.

This is not to say that I am condoning sexually illicit behavior or excusing fragrant sexuality put on display. What I am saying is that you’re going to need to draw a line between the disclosures of Andrew Sullivan and David Morrison and explain why one is appropriate and the other is not.

 

[Lisa_N]

OtherEric, I certainly have not indicated anyone would never begrudge anyone a friend or confidante with whom they might share certain aspects of their private lives. I have consistently said, I simply do not think there is anything to be ‘proud’ of or public with respect to one’s sexuality. I don’t think it needs to be announced with parades or designated with a rainbow sash or public declaration like that nutty New Jersey governor.

For example our largest city has a council consisting of four or five individuals. One is “openly homosexual” which is announced everytime the man’s name is mentioned in a newspaper or radio. I am not sure what being “openly homosexual” has to do with running a city. Nor do I see the other council members being described as ‘openly heterosexual’ or hear anything else about their sex lives. IOW what does someone’s sexual practice have to do with being able to read a budget, vote on tax measures or determing personnel needs? I frankly do not spend much time thinking about other people’s sex lives nor do I want to hear or read gratuitous information regarding other people’s sex practices or preferences.

Again maybe you can explain why anyone would be proud of a particular sexual desire. I just don’t find it very impressive or interesting.

Lisa N