The Roman Catholic Church IS a denomination

[With_Questions]

Ditto…
I did not say ‘perfectly Christlike’, I said what you said.

Actually I said:

Maybe he will look at all of the different flavours in his community and choose that which seems the most Christlike to him.

To which you responded

In that case you’re screwed as the Apostles did not always act in a Christlike fashion - you would reject the Church the Apostles believed in because you think you’re too good for them, or because you have no faith in Christs promise that He would Remain with His One Church for all time and guard and guide it to all truth…

To which I responded

Umm you are distorting what I am saying.

The words were “most Christlike” not “perfectly Christlike”

Now I will leave this to the reader to judge whether looking for the most Christlike flavour of Christianity in his community means the same as rejecting the Church the apostles believed in because you think you’re too good for them.

But if I were reading this, I would not think that quote 2 logically follows from quote 1.

 

[With_Questions]

The Church is not a denomination. Keep in mind, that the Church did not break from itself. The Church has kept a constant stream throughout history, and at various times heretical groups broke away from the Church. Those groups that broke away are denominations. The Roman Catholic Church is the foundation, thus it is not just another denomination, It is the fullness of Christianity.

Regardless of what the history of the Roman Catholic Church is or is not, it is still

a religious organization whose congregations are united in their adherence to its beliefs and practices

 

[With_Questions]

The Truth is not a something it is a Somebody and His name is Jesus.

Amen

In Matthew 16:18-19 “And I tell you, you are Peter and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the Kingdom of heaven and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and whatever you loose on eart will be loosed in heaven”.

In this passage St Peter is promised primacy over the whole Church, a primacy which Jesus will confer on him after His resurrecttion, as we learn in the Gospel of St.John Jn 21:15-18. This supreme authority is given to Peter for the benefit of the Church. Because the Church has to last until the end of time, the authority will be passed on to Peter’s successors, down through Salvation history. The Bishop of Rome, the Pope, is the successor of Peter.

Of course the interpretation of this passage is another topic that I am really not interested in debating.

Needless to say I don’t see this passage quite the same as you do. But anyway…

Even if you are right in your interpretation and I am wrong, the Roman Catholic church is still

a religious organization whose congregations are united in their adherence to its beliefs and practices

 

[alanjeddy]

Amen

Of course the interpretation of this passage is another topic that I am really not interested in debating.

Needless to say I don’t see this passage quite the same as you do. But anyway…

Even if you are right in your interpretation and I am wrong, the Roman Catholic church is still

As Shakespeare said " A rose by any other name would smell the same.

 

[alanjeddy]

Amen

Of course the interpretation of this passage is another topic that I am really not interested in debating.

Needless to say I don’t see this passage quite the same as you do. But anyway…

Even if you are right in your interpretation and I am wrong, the Roman Catholic church is still

If you were going to debate me what would be your main points?

 

[Hisalone]

Go on the internet and do some research. It is there.

The Church is really the mystical body of Christ. where each person dies to self and surrenders to the will of God In this manner we are able to see the face of Jesus in every person who is in need of our Christian charity. Justification through Sola Fide alone is not enough and if you don’t believe this then read Matthew 25:31-46. Faith with works done for the Glory of God.
It is our final test and last judgement. It will determine if we will be at Jesus’ right or left hand. With the sheep or the goats. we will be in Heaven or hell for all eternity.

You are unable to prove it?

 

[Hisalone]

alanjeddy in 100% right I look it up in the last tread about denomination its right on the internet and dont mahe up # to say you are right

So then provide a link.

 

[Hisalone]

Yup. You are absolutely right. Google can be your friend.

The source is David A. Barrett’s World Christian Encyclopedia: A Comparative Survey of Churches and Religions in the Modern World A.D. 1900—2000

I don’t want to get into debating this, but the upshot is that the same source says there are 242 Catholic denominations. There is an issue with jurisdictions in this source.

And the source does not specifically break his denominations down as to Protestant or Restorationalist.

And if you want to use the traditions the source cites, as closer to denominations, the source lists 16 Catholic traditions.

The lesson here boys and girls is that you should not use a source for purposes for which the source is not intended.

But this is off topic.

Provide a link

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

I believe the Op’s definition of denomination is confused with the definition of “Religion”.

The Catholic faith is the Christian religion, not a denomination from it.

Denomination taken from the first meaning not the (4)th meaning as the op has done, means 1-the act of denominating 2- the name of a class of things (meaning all other christians churches denominated from Protestantism, and Protestantism denominated from Catholicism check your church history and founders where they denominated from?

Their is only one Church Jesus built on Peter, and Peter present day Pope is still here today in the Roman Catholic church).

.3rd meaning refers to a class or kind (Christian denominations fit this profile for they fall into a class or kind of Christianity that differs from the Original Christian religion in the Catholic church founded by Jesus Christ himself).

4th meaning a particular religious body, with a specific name, organization etc? This meaning does not reference the Body of Jesus Christ in the Catholic church. For this meaning “attaches a particular religious body” “specifically named organization”. The Catholic church is not a particular religious body, she is the “body of Jesus Christ”. Neither denomination meanings qualify the Catholic church.

Have you looked up the Word Catholic? here is a meaning for you from the dictionary. “often of the CHRISTIAN CHURCH AS A WHOLE, specific of the ANCIENT UNDIVIDED CHRISTIAN CHURCH.”

The dictionary is clear about what the Catholic church is. Not a denomination or the same dictionary would have referenced her as a denomination.

Is your church denomination named in the dictionary?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Yup. You are absolutely right. Google can be your friend.

The source is David A. Barrett’s World Christian Encyclopedia: A Comparative Survey of Churches and Religions in the Modern World A.D. 1900—2000

I don’t want to get into debating this, but the upshot is that the same source says there are 242 Catholic denominations. There is an issue with jurisdictions in this source.

And the source does not specifically break his denominations down as to Protestant or Restorationalist.

And if you want to use the traditions the source cites, as closer to denominations, the source lists 16 Catholic traditions.

The lesson here boys and girls is that you should not use a source for purposes for which the source is not intended.

But this is off topic.

That is very funny, but it is a common mistake by authors. Confusing Catholic rites and cultural differences of traditions does not qualify denomination. Although I can see an unlearned or uninformed person can use the word “denomination” to distinguish his thought of "different Catholic rites that have not denominated from the Catholic church. Reread your sources.

 

[alanjeddy]

You are unable to prove it?

Carefully read Matthew 25:31-46 and prove to me how faith alone , Sola Fide is going to get you into heaven?

 

[With_Questions]

Provide a link

Actually google “How many Protestant denominations” and you will see a number of sources.

Here were the ones I used:
bringyou.to/apologetics/a120.htm
bringyou.to/apologetics/a106.htm
ntrmin.org/30000denominations.htm
ntrmin.org/30000denominationsrevisited.htm

There are two Catholic and two Protestant apologetics here.

Of course all four of them put their own spin to the numbers.

However, ignoring the spin, I think I have determined the facts of the case.

It all boils down to something I learned in college about never using a study for purposes for which it was not intended.

 

[alanjeddy]

If there are any Protestants out there who believe that we are saved by faith alone I ask you to turn to Matthew 25:31-46. Do you think the sheep got separated from the goats because their faith wasn’t strong enough. If we dont attend to the least of His Brethren then we are leaving Jesus unattended. We have to see the face of our Lord in all our neighbors who are in need of our Christian charity and we must do it for the glory of God not to be self-righteous. Then we become Jesus hands and legs as the Holy spirit works through US.

I guess I should really start a new thread. anyone like to debate Mat. 25:31-46 with me?

 

[WarriorAngel]

Since I am getting tired of quoting the dictionary every time this statement is made:

So unless you want to say that either your are not a religious organization or that you are not united, then you are a denomination. And if you want to claim that either the above are not true, then Protestants do not have denominations either.

So don’t argue with us any more. Take your dispute to the dictionary.

Let’s look at the dictionary…and REALLY look at what it means…

Quick definitions (denomination)
▸ noun: a class of one kind of unit in a system of numbers or measures or weights or money (“He flashed a fistful of bills of large denominations”)
▸ noun: a group of religious congregations having its own organization and a distinctive faith
▸ noun: identifying word or words by which someone or something is called and classified** or distinguished from others**

The reason the Catholic Church is NOT a denomination is because the Church was the first Christian faith and others who broke off and even off those who broke off are all distinctions opposed to the Catholic Church.

Hope this helps.

 

[With_Questions]

That is very funny, but it is a common mistake by authors. Confusing Catholic rites and cultural differences of traditions does not qualify denomination. Although I can see an unlearned or uninformed person can use the word “denomination” to distinguish his thought of "different Catholic rites that have not denominated from the Catholic church. Reread your sources.

If I were to write a college paper based solely on a source that
claimed there were 9,000 Protestants, 22,000 Independents and 242 Catholic denominations and conclude there really are 33,000 Protestant denominations and 1 Catholic denomination I would be laughed / flunked out of class.

You just don’t do that.

 

[CWBetts]

If I were to write a college paper based solely on a source that
claimed there were 9,000 Protestants, 22,000 Independents and 242 Catholic denominations and conclude there really are 33,000 Protestant denominations and 1 Catholic denomination I would be laughed / flunked out of class.

You just don’t do that.

I don’t think anyone claimed there was only one Catholic Denomination. After all there are all the Eastern Rites that are in full communion with Rome…just a thought

 

[With_Questions]

Let’s look at the dictionary…and REALLY look at what it means…

Quick definitions (denomination)
▸ noun: a class of one kind of unit in a system of numbers or measures or weights or money (“He flashed a fistful of bills of large denominations”)
▸ noun: a group of religious congregations having its own organization and a distinctive faith
▸ noun: identifying word or words by which someone or something is called and classified** or distinguished from others**

The reason the Catholic Church is NOT a denomination is because the Church was the first Christian faith and others who broke off and even off those who broke off are all distinctions opposed to the Catholic Church.

Hope this helps.

So let’s take this definition

▸ noun: a group of religious congregations having its own organization and a distinctive faith

Oh…this one works for me also.

What other faith out there is identical to the (Roman) Catholic faith.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

If I were to write a college paper based solely on a source that
claimed there were 9,000 Protestants, 22,000 Independents and 242 Catholic denominations and conclude there really are 33,000 Protestant denominations and 1 Catholic denomination I would be laughed / flunked out of class.

You just don’t do that.

Good point. But that is why we go to school to learn. Especially the differences between Catholic Rites and Tradtions from denominations. If you wrote a paper explaining what the different Rites are in Catholicism, I would give an “A+” if you did not confuse the term “denomination” to distinguish the different Catholic cultural Rites, languages and peoples, does not justify our Catholic diversities to be a denomination. Unless you are speaking about non Catholics who call themselves “Catholic” but are truly not.

 

[CWBetts]

So let’s take this definition

Oh…this one works for me also.

What other faith out there is identical to the (Roman) Catholic faith.

Maybe not IDENTICAL, but there are some Eastern Churches in full communion with Rome…the Byzantine CAtholics, for example

 

[FCEGM]

I’m curious: since when does a dictionary dictate the Church’s understanding of itself?

These three articles read in order help explain why the Church is not a denomination:

bringyou.to/apologetics/a45.htm

bringyou.to/apologetics/a130.htm

bringyou.to/apologetics/a129.htm