The Rosary and the promises of Our Lady

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This is the promise that really confuses me:

“The soul which recommends itself to me by the recitation of the rosary, shall not perish.”

Where in the Church’s oldest writing, do the apostles even hint at such a thing? I thought we recommend ourselves to Jesus? When the sick were following Jesus, they cried out to Him and touched His clothing. They did not skip Jesus and go to Mary.
You are recommending yourself to Jesus through his mother. If you pray the Rosary then you obiously have faith in Jesus am I correct? You’re living the whole life of Jesus Christ be reciting the mysteries that go along with it.

About the sick people, that was in a diferent time in the Biblie. It’s not a wise choice to be comparing Jesus to his mother in that specific bible passage. As we all know, Mary had not yet ascended into heaven and hadn’t yet become the mother of all humanity. Mary was simply the mother of Jesus/Lord and a simple mortal being or person. Hope this helps you out. God bless you.🙂
 
cancel my earlier posts. i need to study this out further before i comment like this. i apologize and ignore my earlier post. thanks
We all make mistakes…take a break and count to ten.😃 I assume you should have already studied the catholic faith because it says that you have been catholic for over three years?:confused:
 
I prayed the rosary before I was really Christian and will probably continue to (though not everyday, but She understands). I do believe that this devotion to the Holy Mother of God places you under her mantle. She is a very powerful advocate, and I believe in the truth of the promises.
 
Where do you see “exactly” Blessed Alan de la Roche" associated with the 15 promise’s of the Rosary, except through his study of St Dominic?

Rosary is composed princibly and in substance, of the Prayer of Christ and the Angelic Salutation, that is the Our Father and the Hail Mary. It is without a doubt the “first” prayer and princible devotion to the faithful, and has been is use through ALL the centuries, from the time of the apostles and disciples right down to today. It was given to the Church not by Blessed Alan but by Saint Dominic.Which he had received it himself from the Blessed Mother Mary.as a means of converting SINNERS!

St Dominic established the Rosary. Blessed Alan Re-Established the Rosary.

It would be easier for Man to live without Air. Than for Man to live without the Grace of God.
 
As we all know, Mary had not yet ascended into heaven /QUOTE]

This was probably just a mis-typing, but we should be clear that Mary did not ‘ascend’ into heaven.
She was ‘assumed’, meaning taken up by the power of Almighty God.
‘Ascended’ was what Our Lord did, using His own power, as it were.
A very imperfect analogy would be the difference between a parent lifting up a child to put her on a high place, and a bird flying up into the air to the same place.
 
… It was given to the Church not by Blessed Alan but by Saint Dominic.Which he had received it himself from the Blessed Mother Mary.as a means of converting SINNERS!

St Dominic established the Rosary. Blessed Alan Re-Established the Rosary.
This is all myth, every bit of it.

The rosary (which in itself is fine) predates both of those men, that’s history.
 
This is all myth, every bit of it.

The rosary (which in itself is fine) predates both of those men, that’s history.
I’d be interested in hearing your take on this topic. But before you shrug something off as myth? I suggest you research the topic. The Prayers of the Our Father and Hail Mary have been used long before both men and for centurys. The ROSARY was given to St Dominic. by the Blessed Mother.

St Dominiic fasted and prayed for three nighs and three days, the Blessed Mother appeared to him in an apparition and gave him the Rosary in 1214 by the Church of Prouille.

Blessed Allan de la Roche is often associated with the Rosary, and it was in his book that the actual date and story of St Dominic is mentioned. Yet Blessed Alan came along two-hundred years later. Obviously the Hail Mary and Our Father have been prayed and have been around through all the centurys as the Prayer of Christ and the Angelic Salutation.
 
And once again you said absolutly nothing:shrug: Where is the information you claim to be factual?

I’ll Pray for you.
 
It’s true. Im sorry if you don’t have faith in Mary.😦
I am Orthodox.

I probably have more real faith in her than you do. I don’t think she would be pleased to know you and some others think these phantasms are really her speaking or that these pious legends are being used to displace the facts of history. The fact is, the rosary predates the legends of her giving it to those men, so the legends are wrong and as such they have nothing at all to do with the real Mary of Nazareth.

http://www.msocp.com/MSOCP_2005_Gra...MSOCP_2005_Graphics/Icons/Panels_Big/ICXC.jpg
 
I am Orthodox.

I probably have more real faith in her than you do. I don’t think she would be pleased to know you and some others think these phantasms are really her speaking or that these pious legends are being used to displace the facts of history. The fact is, the rosary predates the legends of her giving it to those men, so the legends are wrong and as such they have nothing at all to do with the real Mary of Nazareth.

http://www.msocp.com/MSOCP_2005_Gra...MSOCP_2005_Graphics/Icons/Panels_Big/ICXC.jpg
NIce photos but once again wheres the PROOF? You claim “fact” with NO PROOF? I can back up everything I say with proof.
 
NIce photos but once again wheres the PROOF? You claim “fact” with NO PROOF? I can back up everything I say with proof.
Oh, do, please. produce the proof. I’m surprised you haven’t before now, to be honest, to back up your several posts.

Not just pious accounts of visions produced some time after they occured, mind you, but real proof that the Rosary came into existence only after these visions.

I’d be very interested to see it, and I’m sure I’m not alone.
 
Here read up on the Rosary. The 15 Promise’s of the Rosary came later than St Dominic though. I’f I’m not mistaken I believe I read something about this associated with Blessed Alan.
Yet to debate The Blessed Mother and exactly what each faith believes, and to what esteem. Becomes an exercise in futility.
You are entitled to you opinion, Thats yours you can keep that. But there is not a shred of evidence to dispute the following links, which are “all” in agreement. And any debate really isn’t a debate about the Rosary itself . but to what extent your Faith place’s emphasis on the Mother Mary?

When you take links from the internet for example. You have but one means of proof. The Holy Scripture would be another. Yet another would be the world wide approved apparitions.

newadvent.org/cathen/13184b.htm

ayletmarcharbel.org/holy_rosary.htm

catholicdoors.com/courses/rosary.htm

google.com/search?q=History+of+The+Holy+Rosary&hl=en&sa=G&rls=com.microsoft:*:IE-Address&rlz=1I7RNTN_en&tbs=tl:1&tbo=u&ei=OVlLTJWMBoG88gaywvQ1&oi=timeline_result&ct=title&resnum=11&ved=0CEMQ5wIwCg

Here’s a Vatican approved apparition, witnessed by Thousands of all Faiths. With many Miracles. And the Apparitons last close to two years. Every single individual interviewed on what they saw? All said the exact same thing, “The Blessed Mother Mary”. There was “NO” disputing this. None what so ever. All the Black/White photographs arr authentic.

youtube.com/user/lucy3eid

Many mistakingly believe that Catholics pray to Mary as a God. Catholics pray to Mary for her intercession on behalf of her son. Not a new concept. From the Wedding at Cana in John 2:1-11 and the first time Jesus perfoms a Miracle. He does so at the request of Mary. John the Baptist already foretold that he “Jesus” is the Messiah. But to this point we know of no miracle. Jesus states to Mary " it is not yet my time". Yet through Marys intercession Jesus performs a Miracle.

Mary is the way to Jesus, Jesus came to us through Mary. We are expected to go to Jesus through Mary. And that is the New Testament and binds the New Testament with the Old Testament. Mary is the seal. So when Mary says to us “Only Our Lady of the Rosary can help you” You are safe in taking that literally, because she means it literally.

God Bless. GT
 
"Originally the rosary had 150 beads, the same number of psalms in the Bible. In the twelfth century, religious orders recited together the 150 Psalms as a way to mark the hours of the day and the days of the week. Those people who didn’t know how to read wanted to share in this practice, so praying on a string of 150 beads or knots began as a parallel to praying the psalms. It was a way that the illiterate could remember the Lord and his mother throughout the day. The “Divine Office”; the official prayer of the church; is the recitation of the psalms over a four week period, and is still prayed today.

This first rosary was prayed as we do today, a person would pass their fingers over each bead and say a prayer, usually the “Our Father”. The “Hail Mary” as we know it wasn’t even around at that time.

The Hail Mary owes its origin to the rosary. When people said the rosary in the twelfth century, Gabrielle’s greeting “Hail Mary, full or grace, the Lord is with thee” was often said along with the Our Father. Later, Elizabeth’s greeting ”blessed are you among women” was added. It was not until the sixteenth century that the words “Holy Mary., Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death” were added.
Various people have added other things to the rosary over the centuries. In the fifteenth century, a Carthusian monk divided the rosary into fifteen brackets (or decades) and a Dominican assigned mysteries to each of the decades."

source


At an early date among the monastic orders the practice of counting prayers established itself not only of offering Masses, but of saying vocal prayers as a suffrage for their deceased brethren. For this purpose the private recitation of the 150 psalms, or of 50 psalms, the third part, was constantly enjoined. Already in A.D. 800 we learn from the compact between St. Gall and Reichenau (“Mon. Germ. Hist.: Confrat.” Piper, 140) that for each deceased brother all the priests should say one Mass and also fifty psalms.

“Ancient Customs of Cluny”, collected by Udalrio in 1096, that when the death of any brother at a distance was announced, every priest was to offer Mass, and every non-priest was either to say fifty psalms or to repeat fifty times the Paternoster (The Lord’s Prayer).

To count these accurately there is every reason to believe that already in the eleventh and twelfth centuries a practice had come in of using pebbles, berries, or discs of bone threaded on a string. It is in any case certain that the Countess Godiva of Coventry (c 1075) left by will to the statue of Our Lady in a certain monastery “the circlet of precious stones which she had threaded on a cord in order that by fingering them one after another she might count her prayers exactly” (Malmesbury, “Gesta Pont.”, Rolls Series 311). Another example seems to occur in the case of St. Rosalia (A. D. 1160), in whose tomb similar strings of beads were discovered. Even more important is the fact that such strings of beads were known throughout the Middle Ages - and in some Continental tongues are known to his day - as “Paternosters” which are Our Fathers. The evidence for this is overwhelming and comes from every part of Europe.

In the times before St. Dominic we can see that the, Paternosters, (The Lord’s Prayer) was prayed, and we know from history that during St. Dominic’s time The Lord’s Prayer and Our Lady’s Psalter, (The Hail Mary) were prayed on pebbles, or a string of beads.

& OCE

It is usually suggested that the rosary began as a practice by the laity to imitate the monastic Office (Breviary or Liturgy of the Hours), by which monks prayed the 150 Psalms. The laity, many of whom could not read, substituted 50 or 150 Ave Marias for the Psalms. Sometimes a cord with counters on it was used to keep an accurate count.

EWTN
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13184b.htm
 
To sum up, we have positive evidence that both the invention of the beads as a counting apparatus and also the practice of repeating a hundred and fifty Avescannot be due to St. Dominic, because they are both notably older than his time. Further, we are assured that the meditating upon the mysteries was not introduced until two hundred years after his death. What then, we are compelled to ask, is there left of which St. Dominic may be called the author?

These positive reasons for distrusting the current tradition might in a measure be ignored as archaeological refinements, if there were any satisfactory evidence to show that St. Dominic had identified himself with the pre-existing Rosary and become its apostle. But here we are met with absolute silence. Of the eight or nine early Lives of the saint, not one makes the faintest allusion to the Rosary. The witnesses who gave evidence in the cause of his canonization are equally reticent. In the great collection of documents accumulated by Fathers Balme and Lelaidier, O.P., in their “Cartulaire de St. Dominique” the question is studiously ignored. The early constitutions of the different provinces of the order have been examined, and many of them printed, but no one has found any reference to this devotion. We possess hundreds, even thousands, of manuscripts containing devotional treatises, sermons, chronicles, Saints’ lives, etc., written by the Friars Preachers between 1220 and 1450; but no single verifiable passage has yet been produced which speaks of the Rosary as instituted by St. Dominic or which even makes much of the devotion as one specially dear to his children. The charters and other deeds of the Dominicanconvents for men and women, as M. Jean Guiraud points out with emphasis in his edition of the Cartulaire of La Prouille (I, cccxxviii), are equally silent. Neither do we find any suggestion of a connection between St. Dominic and the Rosary in the paintings and sculptures of these two and a half centuries. Even the tomb of St. Dominic at Bologna and the numberless frescoes by Fra Angelico representing the brethren of his order ignore the Rosary completely.

Old Catholic Encyclopedia

The intercourse of the Western peoples of the Latin Rite with those of the Eastern Rite at the beginning of the Crusades caused the practice of saying prayers upon knots or beads to become widely diffused among the monastic houses of the Latin Church, although the practice had been observed in some instances before that date.

Old Catholic Encyclopedia
 
I am Orthodox.

I probably have more real faith in her than you do. I don’t think she would be pleased to know you and some others think these phantasms are really her speaking or that these pious legends are being used to displace the facts of history. The fact is, the rosary predates the legends of her giving it to those men, so the legends are wrong and as such they have nothing at all to do with the real Mary of Nazareth.

http://www.msocp.com/MSOCP_2005_Gra...MSOCP_2005_Graphics/Icons/Panels_Big/ICXC.jpg
Blessed are those who have not seen yet believe. If you have more faith in her as you say, then why do you not believe that she appeared to St. Dominic? If you have more real faith in her, then you must believe that the Rosary is more powerful than the atomic bomb and is a true prayer from heaven.

Take a look at this thread:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=471907

As for Mary supposedly not being pleased with us believing in her promises or apparitions cannot be assumed by you or be considered reliable. Believing in your words is more false and just more of a myth compared to believing that the apparition is true and that someone (mary) that dewells in heaven did appear down on earth to give a Rosary to a man.😛 Other than that, I don’t take personal opinions or perspectives from an ordinary person who isn’t even catholic. Sorry. God bless you.🙂
 
"Originally the rosary had 150 beads, the same number of psalms in the Bible. In the twelfth century, religious orders recited together the 150 Psalms as a way to mark the hours of the day and the days of the week. Those people who didn’t know how to read wanted to share in this practice, so praying on a string of 150 beads or knots began as a parallel to praying the psalms. It was a way that the illiterate could remember the Lord and his mother throughout the day. The “Divine Office”; the official prayer of the church; is the recitation of the psalms over a four week period, and is still prayed today.

This first rosary was prayed as we do today, a person would pass their fingers over each bead and say a prayer, usually the “Our Father”. The “Hail Mary” as we know it wasn’t even around at that time.

The Hail Mary owes its origin to the rosary. When people said the rosary in the twelfth century, Gabrielle’s greeting “Hail Mary, full or grace, the Lord is with thee” was often said along with the Our Father. Later, Elizabeth’s greeting ”blessed are you among women” was added. It was not until the sixteenth century that the words “Holy Mary., Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death” were added.
Various people have added other things to the rosary over the centuries. In the fifteenth century, a Carthusian monk divided the rosary into fifteen brackets (or decades) and a Dominican assigned mysteries to each of the decades."

source


At an early date among the monastic orders the practice of counting prayers established itself not only of offering Masses, but of saying vocal prayers as a suffrage for their deceased brethren. For this purpose the private recitation of the 150 psalms, or of 50 psalms, the third part, was constantly enjoined. Already in A.D. 800 we learn from the compact between St. Gall and Reichenau (“Mon. Germ. Hist.: Confrat.” Piper, 140) that for each deceased brother all the priests should say one Mass and also fifty psalms.

“Ancient Customs of Cluny”, collected by Udalrio in 1096, that when the death of any brother at a distance was announced, every priest was to offer Mass, and every non-priest was either to say fifty psalms or to repeat fifty times the Paternoster (The Lord’s Prayer).

To count these accurately there is every reason to believe that already in the eleventh and twelfth centuries a practice had come in of using pebbles, berries, or discs of bone threaded on a string. It is in any case certain that the Countess Godiva of Coventry (c 1075) left by will to the statue of Our Lady in a certain monastery “the circlet of precious stones which she had threaded on a cord in order that by fingering them one after another she might count her prayers exactly” (Malmesbury, “Gesta Pont.”, Rolls Series 311). Another example seems to occur in the case of St. Rosalia (A. D. 1160), in whose tomb similar strings of beads were discovered. Even more important is the fact that such strings of beads were known throughout the Middle Ages - and in some Continental tongues are known to his day - as “Paternosters” which are Our Fathers. The evidence for this is overwhelming and comes from every part of Europe.

In the times before St. Dominic we can see that the, Paternosters, (The Lord’s Prayer) was prayed, and we know from history that during St. Dominic’s time The Lord’s Prayer and Our Lady’s Psalter, (The Hail Mary) were prayed on pebbles, or a string of beads.

& OCE

It is usually suggested that the rosary began as a practice by the laity to imitate the monastic Office (Breviary or Liturgy of the Hours), by which monks prayed the 150 Psalms. The laity, many of whom could not read, substituted 50 or 150 Ave Marias for the Psalms. Sometimes a cord with counters on it was used to keep an accurate count.

EWTN
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13184b.htm
Your point with all these posts are? It’s as simple as seeing that the Rosary was just being perfectioned.😉 God bless you. If you do notice, it does admit that the Rosary did exist and that people did pray it. So in conclusion, the apparition was real and did happen. Period. Have a nice day.😃
 
Yes and everthimg you wasted your time typing was already mentioned in the links right above. Counting Beads, Pebbles, are in referrence to counting Prayers. Not exactly what the Rosary is, So in other words your gonna read a post then feed “one sentence” out of it back to me? And claim it as Fact? Unreal.

Show me ANYTHING, ANTWHERE where the Roasry isn’t itself, as the Rosary, isn’t directly related to St Dominic? Can’t, it doesn’t exist.

Prayer Hail Mary, Again mentioned in the links above. We know thats directly from the Angel Gabrial speaking to Mary…Nothing new, or to do with the Rosary except the actual recitation of that prayer.

The fact is there is nothing you can post in contrary because it just doesn’t exist. Exept in “your” mind.

Let me explain reality to you. If someone calls you Horse? You tell them there crazy and move on. If another person calls you a horse, well you think about a second. If another and another and another call you a horse? Get a Saddle, cause your a Horse.

Really its a mute point." Do you Pray the Rosary"? Thats all that matters… With due respect to whoever it came from. All that really matters today…is that “YOU” Pray the Rosary. GIve it an Honest chance to work in your life.

God Bless, GT
 
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