N
nickybr38
Guest
Sorry about that. I agree, absolutely. I’ve been dedicating my rosary time to my family and enemies. I’ve always felt very uncomfortable praying for myself (except when asking forgiveness for sins) so I don’t.
- Status
Sorry about that. I agree, absolutely. I’ve been dedicating my rosary time to my family and enemies. I’ve always felt very uncomfortable praying for myself (except when asking forgiveness for sins) so I don’t.
M
Monica4316
Guest
It’s not a myth… the Hail Mary and the Our Father were used before St Dominic, but he received the Rosary in a form similar to how we pray it today. He received it while praying for heretics and they were later converted through the Rosary. Later on, the Rosary was largely forgotten until Bl. Alan de la Roche brought it back. (Mary appeared to him and asked him to preach the Rosary).
Well there are Eastern early Church Fathers who thought this about Mary too. Here are some quotes by Eastern and Western Saints and ECFs:
St. Ephraem (373): “I call upon you, Mediatrix of the world; I invoke your prompt protection in my necessities.”
A Father of the Council of Ephesus, Antipater of Bostra, wrote, “Hail, you who acceptably intercede as a Mediatrix for mankind.”
St. Andrew of Crete (660-740) referred to Mary as the "Mediatrix of the law and grace” and that “she is the mediation between the sublimity of God and the abjection of the flesh.”
"From the 8th century we may quote the Venerable Bede (homil. I in fest. Annunc. and hom. I in fest. Visit.; P.L., t. XCIV, col. 91, 16). St. Andrew of Crete calls Mary Mediatrix of grace, dispenser and cause of life (In Nativit. B. M. , hom. Iv, and in Dormit. S.M., III; P.G… t. XCVII, cols. 813 and 1108). St. Germanus of Constantinople says that no one has been saved without the cooperation of the Mother of God (In dormit. B.M., P.G., t. XCVIII, c. 349). The title of mediatrix is given by St. John Damascene also, who asserts that we owe to her all the benefits conferred on us by Jesus (In dormit. B.M., hom. 1, 3, 8, 12; 11, 16; P.G., t. XCVI, cols. 705, 713, 717, 744). In the 9th century we find St. Peter Damien teaching that nothing is accomplished in the work of our redemption without her (Serm. 15; P.L. . t. CXLIV, cols. 741, 743). The teaching of St. Anselm (Orat. 47, 52; PL, t. CLVIII, cols. 741, 743), Eadmer, and St. Bernard in the 12th century is the same.” (Fr Garrigou-Lagrange)
St. Cyril of Alexandria: “Hail Mary Theotokos, venerable treasure of the whole world, light unextinguished, crown of virginity, sceptre of orthodoxy, indestructible temple, which contains the uncontainable… it is through you that the Holy Trinity is glorified and adored, through you, the precious cross is venerated and adored throughout the whole world, through you that heaven is in gladness, that angels and archangels rejoice that demons are put to flight, through you that the tempter, the devil is cast from heaven, through you that the fallen creature is raised up to heaven, through you that all creation, once imprisoned in idolatry, has reached knowledge of the truth, that the faithful obtain baptism and the oil of joy, churches have been founded in the whole world, that peoples are led to conversion.” [7]
M
Monica4316
Guest
St. Germanus: Our Lady is “truly a good Mediatrix of all sinners.” (Hom. in Dorm. II, PG 98, 321, 352‑3)
St. Tarasius of Constantinople: Our Lady is “the Mediatrix of all who are under Heaven.” (In SS. Deiparae Praesentionem. PG 98, 1499).” [8]
St. Bernard of Clairvaux:
St. Bernard speaks of Mary as “gratiae inventrix, mediatrix, salutis restauratrix saeculorum.” [9]
“God Has willed that we should have nothing which would not pass through the hands of Mary.” (Hom. III in vig. nativit., n. 10, PL 183, 100)
“God has placed in Mary the plenitude of every good, in order to have us understand that if there is any trace of hope in us, any trace of grace, any trace of salvation, it flows from her.” [10]
“God could have dispensed His graces according to His good pleasure, without making use of this aqueduct (Mary); but it was His wish to provide this means whereby grace would reach you.” [11]
St. Albert the Great:
“To her [Mary] alone was given this privilege, namely, a communication in the Passion; to her the Son willed to communicate the merit of the Passion, in order that He could give her the reward; and in order to make her a sharer in the benefit of Redemption. He willed that she be a sharer in the penalty of the Passion, insofar as she might become the Mother of all through re-creation even as she was the adjudtrix of the Redemption by her co-passion. And just as the whole world is bound to God by His supreme Passion, so also it is bound to the Lady of all by her co-passion.” (Mariale, Opera Omnia, v. 37, Q. 150, p. 219)
"… every single grace passes through the hands of Mary.” [12]
“The Blessed Virgin is very properly called ‘gate of heaven,’ for every created or uncreated grace that ever came or will ever come into this world came through her.” (Mariale 147)
St. Thomas Aquinas writes, "Mary is the whole hope of our salvation,” [13] and "Through the intercession of Mary any souls are in Paradise who would not be there had she not interceded for them, for God has entrusted her with the keys and treasures of the heavenly kingdom.” [14]
St. Gregory Palamas: “No divine gift can reach either angels or men, save through her mediation. As one cannot enjoy the light of a lamp … save through the medium of this lamp, so every movement towards God, every impulse towards good coming from Him is unrealizable save through the mediation of the Virgin. She does not cease to spread benefits on all creatures….” [15]
Theophanes of Nicaea: “[Mary] is the dispenser and distributor of all the wondrous uncreated gifts of the divine Spirit, which make us Christ’s brothers and co-heirs, not only because she is granting the gifts of her natural Son to His brothers in grace, but also because she is bestowing them on these as her own true sons, though not by ties of nature but of grace.” [16]
St. Louis De Montfort:
“To Mary, His faithful spouse, God the Holy Ghost has communicated His unspeakable gifts; and He has chosen her to be the dispensatrix of all He possesses, in such sort that she distributes to whom she wills, as much as she wills, as she wills and when she wills, all His gifts and graces. The Holy Ghost gives no heavenly gift to men which does not pass through her virginal hands.” [17]
“… Mary whom He has appointed to be … treasurer of His riches, Distributor of His graces, Worker of His great miracles, Restorer of the human race, Mediatrix of men, Destroyer of God’s enemies, and faithful Companion of His great works and triumphs.” (W.G. 28)
St. Alphonsus Liguori: “God, who gave us Jesus Christ, wills that all graces that have been, that are, and will be dispensed to men to the end of the world through the merits of Jesus Christ, should be dispensed by the hands and through the intercession of Mary.” (The Glories of Mary, Ch. 5). Against the contention that this doctrine is “a pious exaggeration,” St. Alphonsus replied, "I consider it as indubitably true that all graces are dispensed by Mary.” [18]
St. John Vianney: "All the saints have a great devotion to Our Lady: no grace comes from Heaven without passing through her hands. We cannot go into a house without speaking to the doorkeeper. Well, the Holy Virgin is the doorkeeper of Heaven.”
St. Peter Julian Eymard: “Mankind was unworthy to receive the Word directly from God, so Mary was our Mediatrix in the Incarnation, and she continues to exercise that function. No one comes to the knowledge of Jesus Christ and embraces His holy law except through her; no one obtains the saving gift of faith except by her prayers. Her mission, to which she is ever faithful, is to give us Jesus. He must be received from her hands, and in vain do we seek Him elsewhere.” [19]
St. Tarasius of Constantinople: Our Lady is “the Mediatrix of all who are under Heaven.” (In SS. Deiparae Praesentionem. PG 98, 1499).” [8]
St. Bernard of Clairvaux:
St. Bernard speaks of Mary as “gratiae inventrix, mediatrix, salutis restauratrix saeculorum.” [9]
“God Has willed that we should have nothing which would not pass through the hands of Mary.” (Hom. III in vig. nativit., n. 10, PL 183, 100)
“God has placed in Mary the plenitude of every good, in order to have us understand that if there is any trace of hope in us, any trace of grace, any trace of salvation, it flows from her.” [10]
“God could have dispensed His graces according to His good pleasure, without making use of this aqueduct (Mary); but it was His wish to provide this means whereby grace would reach you.” [11]
St. Albert the Great:
“To her [Mary] alone was given this privilege, namely, a communication in the Passion; to her the Son willed to communicate the merit of the Passion, in order that He could give her the reward; and in order to make her a sharer in the benefit of Redemption. He willed that she be a sharer in the penalty of the Passion, insofar as she might become the Mother of all through re-creation even as she was the adjudtrix of the Redemption by her co-passion. And just as the whole world is bound to God by His supreme Passion, so also it is bound to the Lady of all by her co-passion.” (Mariale, Opera Omnia, v. 37, Q. 150, p. 219)
"… every single grace passes through the hands of Mary.” [12]
“The Blessed Virgin is very properly called ‘gate of heaven,’ for every created or uncreated grace that ever came or will ever come into this world came through her.” (Mariale 147)
St. Thomas Aquinas writes, "Mary is the whole hope of our salvation,” [13] and "Through the intercession of Mary any souls are in Paradise who would not be there had she not interceded for them, for God has entrusted her with the keys and treasures of the heavenly kingdom.” [14]
St. Gregory Palamas: “No divine gift can reach either angels or men, save through her mediation. As one cannot enjoy the light of a lamp … save through the medium of this lamp, so every movement towards God, every impulse towards good coming from Him is unrealizable save through the mediation of the Virgin. She does not cease to spread benefits on all creatures….” [15]
Theophanes of Nicaea: “[Mary] is the dispenser and distributor of all the wondrous uncreated gifts of the divine Spirit, which make us Christ’s brothers and co-heirs, not only because she is granting the gifts of her natural Son to His brothers in grace, but also because she is bestowing them on these as her own true sons, though not by ties of nature but of grace.” [16]
St. Louis De Montfort:
“To Mary, His faithful spouse, God the Holy Ghost has communicated His unspeakable gifts; and He has chosen her to be the dispensatrix of all He possesses, in such sort that she distributes to whom she wills, as much as she wills, as she wills and when she wills, all His gifts and graces. The Holy Ghost gives no heavenly gift to men which does not pass through her virginal hands.” [17]
“… Mary whom He has appointed to be … treasurer of His riches, Distributor of His graces, Worker of His great miracles, Restorer of the human race, Mediatrix of men, Destroyer of God’s enemies, and faithful Companion of His great works and triumphs.” (W.G. 28)
St. Alphonsus Liguori: “God, who gave us Jesus Christ, wills that all graces that have been, that are, and will be dispensed to men to the end of the world through the merits of Jesus Christ, should be dispensed by the hands and through the intercession of Mary.” (The Glories of Mary, Ch. 5). Against the contention that this doctrine is “a pious exaggeration,” St. Alphonsus replied, "I consider it as indubitably true that all graces are dispensed by Mary.” [18]
St. John Vianney: "All the saints have a great devotion to Our Lady: no grace comes from Heaven without passing through her hands. We cannot go into a house without speaking to the doorkeeper. Well, the Holy Virgin is the doorkeeper of Heaven.”
St. Peter Julian Eymard: “Mankind was unworthy to receive the Word directly from God, so Mary was our Mediatrix in the Incarnation, and she continues to exercise that function. No one comes to the knowledge of Jesus Christ and embraces His holy law except through her; no one obtains the saving gift of faith except by her prayers. Her mission, to which she is ever faithful, is to give us Jesus. He must be received from her hands, and in vain do we seek Him elsewhere.” [19]
M
Monica4316
Guest
How is Mary’s promise different from what Christ said, when He talked about prayer?
It’s Mary’s promise… there’s a story about a King who never prayed the Rosary but encouraged his servants to pray it. He himself always carried around a large Rosary. Then he died, and appeared before God… he was about to be cast into hell for his sins, but was given a second chance through Our Lady’s intercession, because he encouraged others to pray the Rosary. He then came back to earth and began to live a holy life.This seems like the chain letter concept. Sorry, it really does!
the Celestial Court is probably everyone in Heaven. I’m not sure.
Devotion to the Rosary shows a person’s heart towards God and His Mother. In turn, praying the Rosary obtains graces for this person, so they persevere and grow in their love for God.
that’s wonderful, thanks for sharing that
M
Monica4316
Guest
great quote by St Louis de Montfort
I’m kind of questioning this… would a person who is “full of delusions” be beatified? Maybe he had some enemies who were trying to spread rumours about him
His preaching was attended with much success, yet he was delusional and devout? It just seems like a strange contradiction to me.St Louis de Montfort (who was very well read and far from delusional) said this about Bl Alan de la Roche:
"All things, even the holiest, are subject to change, especially when they are dependent on man’s free will. It is hardly to be wondered at, then, that the Confraternity of the Holy Rosary only retained its first fervor for one century after it was instituted by Saint Dominic. After this, it was like a thing buried and forgotten.
Doubtless, too, the wicked scheming and jealousy of the devil were largely responsible for getting people to neglect the Holy Rosary, and thus block the flow of God’s grace which it had drawn down upon the world.
Thus, in 1349, God punished the whole of Europe and sent the most terrible plague that had ever been known into every land. It started first in the east and spread throughout Italy, Germany, France, Poland, and Hungary, bringing desolation wherever it came - for out of a hundred men hardly one lived to tell the tale. Big towns, little towns, villages, and monasteries were almost completely deserted during the three years that the epidemic lasted.
This scourge of God was quickly followed by two others: the heresy of Flagellants and a tragic schism in 1376.
Later on when these trials were over, thanks to the mercy of God, Our Lady told Blessed Alan to revive the ancient Confraternity of the Most Holy Rosary. Blessed Alan was one of the Dominican Fathers from the monastery at Dinan, in Brittany. He was an eminent theologian and was famous for his sermons. Our Lady chose him because, since the Confraternity had originally been started in this province, it was most fitting that a Dominican from the very same province, should have the honor of reestablishing it.
Blessed Alan began this great work in 1460 after a special warning from Our Lord, Who wished to spur him on to preach the Holy Rosary, spoke to him in the Sacred Host: “How can you crucify Me again so soon?” Jesus said. “What did You say, Lord?”, asked Blessed Alan, horrified. “You crucified Me once before by your sins,” answered Jesus, “and I would willingly be crucified again rather than have My Father offended by the sins you used to commit. You are crucifying Me again now because you have all the learning and understanding that you need to preach My Mother’s Rosary, and you are not doing so. If you only did this you could teach many souls that right path and lead them away from sin - but you are not doing it and so you yourself are guilty of the sins that they commit.”
This terrible reproach made Blessed Alan solemnly resolve to preach the Rosary unceasingly.
Our Lady too spoke to him one day to inspire him to preach the Holy Rosary more and more:
“You were a great sinner in your youth,” she said, “but I obtained the grace of your conversion from my Son. Had such a thing been possible I would have liked to have gone through all kinds of suffering to save you because converted sinners are a glory to me. And I would have done this also to make you worthy of preaching my Rosary far and wide.”
Saint Dominic appeared to Blessed Alan as well and told him of the great results of his ministry: he had preached the Holy Rosary unceasingly, his sermons had borne great fruit and many people had been converted during his missions. He said to Blessed Alan:
“See the wonderful results I have had through preaching the Holy Rosary! You and all those who love Our Lady ought to do the same so that, by means of this holy practice of the Rosary, you may draw all people to the real science of the virtues.”
Briefly, then, this is the history of how Saint Dominic established the Holy Rosary and of how Blessed Alan de la Roche restored it."
M
Monica4316
Guest
great quotesLord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, have mercy on me, the sinner.
*“The soul’s true peace lies in the gentle name of Jesus and in its emptying itself of impassioned thoughts.”
Saint Hesychios the Priest, Sinai De tempernteia et virtute *
“The more the rain falls on the earth, the softer it makes it; similarly, Christ’s holy name gladdens the earth of our heart the more we call upon it.”
Saint Hesychios the Priest, Sinai* De tempernteia et virtute *
“The sun cannot shine without light; nor can the heart be cleansed of the stain of destructive thoughts without invoking in prayer the name of Jesus. This being the case, we should use that name as we do our own breath. For that name is light, while evil thoughts are darkness; it is God and Master, while evil thoughts are slaves and demons”
Saint Hesychios the Priest, Sinai* De tempernteia et virtute *
‘Indeed, our true task is always the same and is always accomplished in the same way: to call upon our Lord Jesus Christ with a burning heart so that His holy name intercedes for us.’ *
Saint Hesychios the Priest, Sinai De tempernteia et virtute
*As one can plainly see I have been a big fan of the meditations of Saint Hesychios (a Catholic as well as Orthodox saint) since before I joined CAF forums six years ago.
Pax et Bonum,
M
Monica4316
Guest
God made Mary who she is… He gave her the power to intercede for us, to obtain graces, etc. It’s not arrogant for her to say the truth about herself. She doesn’t have pride, she’s just saying it as it is, and to glorify God.
Don’t worry about this because Mary and the Rosary just help to bring us closer to Jesus. The early Church Fathers spoke of Mary in a similar way: campus.udayton.edu/mary//prayers/SaintsPrayers.htm
we don’t skip Jesus when we go to Mary, we go through her to Him. This can be seen in the early Church as well.
M
Monica4316
Guest
Hesychios, I wanted to reply to your posts about the origin of the Rosary… no one is saying that St Dominic was given the Hail Mary, or the Our Father, or the concept of 150 repeated prayers that are counted on beads. What he was given, is Mary simply told him the Rosary will convert sinners. It doesn’t mean that he invented the Rosary… it means that she told him what its purpose is. Here’s the full story:
Origin
"Since the Holy Rosary is composed, principally and in substance, of the Prayer of Christ and the Angelic Salutation, that is, the Our Father and the Hail Mary, it was without doubt the first prayer and the first devotion of the faithful and has been in use all through the centuries from the time of the Apostles and disciples down to the present.
But it was only in the year 1214, however, that Holy Mother Church received the Rosary in its present form and according to the method we use today. It was given to the Church by Saint Dominic who had received it from the Blessed Virgin as a powerful means of converting the Albigensians and other sinners.
I will tell you the story of how he received it, which is found in the very well-known book “De Dignitate Psalterii” by Blessed Alan de la Roche [1]. Saint Dominic, seeing that the gravity of people’s sins was hindering the conversion of the Albigensians, withdrew into a forest near Toulouse where he prayed unceasingly for three days and three nights. During this time he did nothing but weep and do harsh penances in order to appease the anger of Almighty God. He used his discipline so much that his body was lacerated, and finally he fell into a coma.
At this point Our Lady appeared to him, accompanied by three angels, and she said:
“Dear Dominic, do you know which weapon the Blessed Trinity wants to use to reform the world?”
“Oh, my Lady,” answered Saint Dominic, “you know far better than I do because next to your Son Jesus Christ you have always been the chief instrument of our salvation.”
Then Our Lady replied:
“I want you to know that, in this kind of warfare, the battering ram has always been the Angelic Psalter which is the foundation stone of the New Testament. Therefore if you want to reach these hardened souls and win them over to God, preach my Psalter.”
So he arose, comforted, and burning with zeal, for the conversion of the people in that district he made straight for the Cathedral. At once unseen angels rang the bells to gather the people together and Saint Dominic began to preach.
At the very beginning of his sermon an appalling storm broke, out, the earth shook, the sun was darkened, and there was so much thunder and lightning that all were very much afraid. Even greater was their fear when looking at a picture of Our Lady exposed in a prominent place they saw her raise her arms to heaven three times to call down God’s vengeance upon them if they failed to be converted, to amend their lives, and seek the protection of the Holy Mother of God.
God wished, by means of these supernatural phenomena, to spread the new devotion of the Holy Rosary and to make it more widely known.
At last, at the prayer of Saint Dominic, the storm came to an end, and he went on preaching. So fervently and compellingly did he explain the importance and value of the Holy Rosary that almost all the people of Toulouse embraced it and renounced their false beliefs. In a very short time a great improvement was seen in the town; people began leading Christian lives and gave up their former bad habits. [1]. De Dignitate Psalterii. The importance and Beauty of the Holy Rosary, by Blessed Alan de la Roche, O.P., French Dominican Father and Apostle of the Holy Rosary."
(St Louis de Montfort)
Origin
"Since the Holy Rosary is composed, principally and in substance, of the Prayer of Christ and the Angelic Salutation, that is, the Our Father and the Hail Mary, it was without doubt the first prayer and the first devotion of the faithful and has been in use all through the centuries from the time of the Apostles and disciples down to the present.
But it was only in the year 1214, however, that Holy Mother Church received the Rosary in its present form and according to the method we use today. It was given to the Church by Saint Dominic who had received it from the Blessed Virgin as a powerful means of converting the Albigensians and other sinners.
I will tell you the story of how he received it, which is found in the very well-known book “De Dignitate Psalterii” by Blessed Alan de la Roche [1]. Saint Dominic, seeing that the gravity of people’s sins was hindering the conversion of the Albigensians, withdrew into a forest near Toulouse where he prayed unceasingly for three days and three nights. During this time he did nothing but weep and do harsh penances in order to appease the anger of Almighty God. He used his discipline so much that his body was lacerated, and finally he fell into a coma.
At this point Our Lady appeared to him, accompanied by three angels, and she said:
“Dear Dominic, do you know which weapon the Blessed Trinity wants to use to reform the world?”
“Oh, my Lady,” answered Saint Dominic, “you know far better than I do because next to your Son Jesus Christ you have always been the chief instrument of our salvation.”
Then Our Lady replied:
“I want you to know that, in this kind of warfare, the battering ram has always been the Angelic Psalter which is the foundation stone of the New Testament. Therefore if you want to reach these hardened souls and win them over to God, preach my Psalter.”
So he arose, comforted, and burning with zeal, for the conversion of the people in that district he made straight for the Cathedral. At once unseen angels rang the bells to gather the people together and Saint Dominic began to preach.
At the very beginning of his sermon an appalling storm broke, out, the earth shook, the sun was darkened, and there was so much thunder and lightning that all were very much afraid. Even greater was their fear when looking at a picture of Our Lady exposed in a prominent place they saw her raise her arms to heaven three times to call down God’s vengeance upon them if they failed to be converted, to amend their lives, and seek the protection of the Holy Mother of God.
God wished, by means of these supernatural phenomena, to spread the new devotion of the Holy Rosary and to make it more widely known.
At last, at the prayer of Saint Dominic, the storm came to an end, and he went on preaching. So fervently and compellingly did he explain the importance and value of the Holy Rosary that almost all the people of Toulouse embraced it and renounced their false beliefs. In a very short time a great improvement was seen in the town; people began leading Christian lives and gave up their former bad habits. [1]. De Dignitate Psalterii. The importance and Beauty of the Holy Rosary, by Blessed Alan de la Roche, O.P., French Dominican Father and Apostle of the Holy Rosary."
(St Louis de Montfort)
M
Monica4316
Guest
St. Dominic
"This miraculous way in which the devotion to the Holy Rosary was established is something of a parallel to the way in which Almighty God gave His law to the world on Mount Sinai and obviously proves its value and importance.
Inspired by the Holy Ghost, instructed by the Blessed Virgin as well by his own experience, Saint Dominic preached the Holy Rosary for the rest of his life. He preached it by his example as well as by his sermons, in cities in country places, to people of high station and low, before scholars and the uneducated, to Catholics and to heretics.
The Holy Rosary which he said every day was his preparation for every sermon and his little tryst with Our Lady immediately after preaching.
One Day he had to preach at Notre Dame in Paris, and it happened to be the feast of St. John the Evangelist. He was in a little chapel behind the high altar prayerfully preparing his sermon by saying the Rosary, as he always did, when Our Lady appeared to him and said:
“Dominic, even though what you have planned to say may be very good, I am brining you a much better sermon.”
Saint Dominic took in his hands the book Our Lady proffered, read the sermon carefully and when he had understood it and meditated on it, he gave thanks to the Blessed Mother.
When the time came, he went up into the pulpit and, in spite of the feast day, made no mention of Saint John other than to say that he had been found worthy to be the guardian of the Queen of Heaven. The congregation was made up of theologians and other eminent people who were used to hearing unusual and polished discourses; but Saint Dominic told them that it was not his wish to give them a learned discourse, wise in the eyes of the world, but that he would speak in the simplicity of the Holy Spirit and with His forcefulness.
So he began preaching the Holy Rosary and explained the Hail Mary word by word as he would to a group of children and used the very simple illustrations which were in the book Our Lady had given to him.
Carthagena, the great scholar, quoting Blessed Alan de la Roche in “De Dignitate Psalterii,” describes how this took place:
"Blessed Alan writes that one day Father Dominic said to him in a vision: 'My son, it is good to preach; but there is always a danger of looking for praise rather than the salvation of souls. Listen carefully to what happened to me in Paris so that you may be on guard against this kind of mistake: I was to preach in the great church dedicated to the Blessed Virgin Mary and I was particularly anxious to give a brilliant sermon, not out of pride, but because of the high intellectual stature of the congregation.
'An hour before the time I had to preach, I was recollectedly saying my Rosary - as I always did before giving a sermon - when I fell into ecstasy. I saw my beloved friend the Mother of God coming towards me with a book in her hand.
'“Dominic,” she said, “'your sermon for today may be very good indeed, but no matter how good it is I have brought you one that is very much better.”
'Of course I was overjoyed, took the book and read every word of it. Just as Our Lady had said, I found exactly the right things to say in my sermon, so I thanked her with all my heart.
'When it was time to begin, I saw that the University of Paris had turned out in full force as well as a large number of noblemen. They had all seen and heard of the great things that the good Lord had been doing through me. So I went up into the pulpit.
'It was the feast of Saint John the Apostle but all I said about him was that he had been found worthy to be the guardian of the Queen of Heaven. Then I addressed the congregation:
“‘My Lords and illustrious Doctors of the University, you are accustomed to hearing learned sermons suited to your aesthetic tastes. Now I do not want to speak to you in the scholarly language of human wisdom but, on the contrary, to show you the Spirit of God and His Greatness.’”
"This miraculous way in which the devotion to the Holy Rosary was established is something of a parallel to the way in which Almighty God gave His law to the world on Mount Sinai and obviously proves its value and importance.
Inspired by the Holy Ghost, instructed by the Blessed Virgin as well by his own experience, Saint Dominic preached the Holy Rosary for the rest of his life. He preached it by his example as well as by his sermons, in cities in country places, to people of high station and low, before scholars and the uneducated, to Catholics and to heretics.
The Holy Rosary which he said every day was his preparation for every sermon and his little tryst with Our Lady immediately after preaching.
One Day he had to preach at Notre Dame in Paris, and it happened to be the feast of St. John the Evangelist. He was in a little chapel behind the high altar prayerfully preparing his sermon by saying the Rosary, as he always did, when Our Lady appeared to him and said:
“Dominic, even though what you have planned to say may be very good, I am brining you a much better sermon.”
Saint Dominic took in his hands the book Our Lady proffered, read the sermon carefully and when he had understood it and meditated on it, he gave thanks to the Blessed Mother.
When the time came, he went up into the pulpit and, in spite of the feast day, made no mention of Saint John other than to say that he had been found worthy to be the guardian of the Queen of Heaven. The congregation was made up of theologians and other eminent people who were used to hearing unusual and polished discourses; but Saint Dominic told them that it was not his wish to give them a learned discourse, wise in the eyes of the world, but that he would speak in the simplicity of the Holy Spirit and with His forcefulness.
So he began preaching the Holy Rosary and explained the Hail Mary word by word as he would to a group of children and used the very simple illustrations which were in the book Our Lady had given to him.
Carthagena, the great scholar, quoting Blessed Alan de la Roche in “De Dignitate Psalterii,” describes how this took place:
"Blessed Alan writes that one day Father Dominic said to him in a vision: 'My son, it is good to preach; but there is always a danger of looking for praise rather than the salvation of souls. Listen carefully to what happened to me in Paris so that you may be on guard against this kind of mistake: I was to preach in the great church dedicated to the Blessed Virgin Mary and I was particularly anxious to give a brilliant sermon, not out of pride, but because of the high intellectual stature of the congregation.
'An hour before the time I had to preach, I was recollectedly saying my Rosary - as I always did before giving a sermon - when I fell into ecstasy. I saw my beloved friend the Mother of God coming towards me with a book in her hand.
'“Dominic,” she said, “'your sermon for today may be very good indeed, but no matter how good it is I have brought you one that is very much better.”
'Of course I was overjoyed, took the book and read every word of it. Just as Our Lady had said, I found exactly the right things to say in my sermon, so I thanked her with all my heart.
'When it was time to begin, I saw that the University of Paris had turned out in full force as well as a large number of noblemen. They had all seen and heard of the great things that the good Lord had been doing through me. So I went up into the pulpit.
'It was the feast of Saint John the Apostle but all I said about him was that he had been found worthy to be the guardian of the Queen of Heaven. Then I addressed the congregation:
“‘My Lords and illustrious Doctors of the University, you are accustomed to hearing learned sermons suited to your aesthetic tastes. Now I do not want to speak to you in the scholarly language of human wisdom but, on the contrary, to show you the Spirit of God and His Greatness.’”
M
Monica4316
Guest
Here ends the quotation from Blessed Alan, after which Carthagena goes on to say in his own words:
“Then Saint Dominic explained the Angelic Salutation to them, using simple comparisons and examples from everyday life.”
Blessed Alan, according to Carthagena, mentioned several other times when Our Lord and Our Lady appeared to Saint Dominic to urge and inspire him to preach the Rosary more and more in order to wipe out sin and to convert sinners and heretics.
In another passage Cathagena says:
"Blessed Alan said Our Lady revealed to him that after she had appeared to Saint Dominic, her Blessed Son appeared to him and said:
'Dominic, I rejoice to see that you are not relying upon your own wisdom and that, rather than seek the empty praise of men, you are working with great humility for the salvation of souls.
'But many priests want to preach thunderously against the worst kinds of sin at the very outset, failing to realize that before a sick person is given bitter medicine he needs to be prepared by being put in the right frame of mind to really benefit by it.
‘This is why, before doing anything else, priests should try to kindle a love of prayer in people’s hearts and especially a love of my Angelic Psalter. If only they would all start saying it and would really persevere, God, in His mercy, could hardly refuse to give them His grace. So I want you to preach my Rosary.’
In another place Blessed Alan says:
"All priests say a Hail Mary with the faithful before preaching, to ask for God’s grace. They do this because of a revelation that Saint Dominic had from Our Lady. ‘My son,’ she said one day 'do not be surprised that your sermons fail to bear the results you had hoped for. You are trying to cultivate a piece of ground which has not had any rain. Now when Almighty God planned to renew the face of the earth He started by sending down rain from heaven - and this was the Angelic Salutation. In this way God made over the world.
‘So when you give a sermon, urge people to say my Rosary, and in this way your words will bear much fruit for souls.’
“Saint Dominic lost no time in obeying, and from then on he exerted great influence by his sermons.”
This last quotation is from the “Book of Miracles of the Holy Rosary” (written in Italian) and it is also to be found in Justin’s works (143d Sermon).
I have been very glad to quote these well-known authors word for word in the original Latin [2] for benefit of any priests or other learned people who might otherwise have doubts as to the marvelous power of the Holy Rosary.
As long as priests followed Saint Dominic’s example and preached devotion to the Holy Rosary, piety and fervor thrived throughout the Christian world and in those religious orders which were devoted to the Rosary. But since people have neglected this gift from heaven, all kinds of sin and disorder have spread far and wide.
[2] We have omitted the Latin quotations so as not to encumber the text. English translations have been given above.
rosary-center.org/secret.htm
“Then Saint Dominic explained the Angelic Salutation to them, using simple comparisons and examples from everyday life.”
Blessed Alan, according to Carthagena, mentioned several other times when Our Lord and Our Lady appeared to Saint Dominic to urge and inspire him to preach the Rosary more and more in order to wipe out sin and to convert sinners and heretics.
In another passage Cathagena says:
"Blessed Alan said Our Lady revealed to him that after she had appeared to Saint Dominic, her Blessed Son appeared to him and said:
'Dominic, I rejoice to see that you are not relying upon your own wisdom and that, rather than seek the empty praise of men, you are working with great humility for the salvation of souls.
'But many priests want to preach thunderously against the worst kinds of sin at the very outset, failing to realize that before a sick person is given bitter medicine he needs to be prepared by being put in the right frame of mind to really benefit by it.
‘This is why, before doing anything else, priests should try to kindle a love of prayer in people’s hearts and especially a love of my Angelic Psalter. If only they would all start saying it and would really persevere, God, in His mercy, could hardly refuse to give them His grace. So I want you to preach my Rosary.’
In another place Blessed Alan says:
"All priests say a Hail Mary with the faithful before preaching, to ask for God’s grace. They do this because of a revelation that Saint Dominic had from Our Lady. ‘My son,’ she said one day 'do not be surprised that your sermons fail to bear the results you had hoped for. You are trying to cultivate a piece of ground which has not had any rain. Now when Almighty God planned to renew the face of the earth He started by sending down rain from heaven - and this was the Angelic Salutation. In this way God made over the world.
‘So when you give a sermon, urge people to say my Rosary, and in this way your words will bear much fruit for souls.’
“Saint Dominic lost no time in obeying, and from then on he exerted great influence by his sermons.”
This last quotation is from the “Book of Miracles of the Holy Rosary” (written in Italian) and it is also to be found in Justin’s works (143d Sermon).
I have been very glad to quote these well-known authors word for word in the original Latin [2] for benefit of any priests or other learned people who might otherwise have doubts as to the marvelous power of the Holy Rosary.
As long as priests followed Saint Dominic’s example and preached devotion to the Holy Rosary, piety and fervor thrived throughout the Christian world and in those religious orders which were devoted to the Rosary. But since people have neglected this gift from heaven, all kinds of sin and disorder have spread far and wide.
[2] We have omitted the Latin quotations so as not to encumber the text. English translations have been given above.
rosary-center.org/secret.htm
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
I hear ya Monica.
God Bless.
God Bless.
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
The Vatican tells us the Blessed Mother interceeds on behalf of her Son Jesus Christ. And she has been placed in the position as Co-Redeemer by the Vatican. So I’m not sure what “exactly” your saying here? Are you saying “Our Lady” doesn’t or does co-redeem through Jesus Christ? While the specific topic “is” the Promise’s of Mary. Maybe it would be a great debate to discuss this very idea of the Blessed Mother, and her position in the Roman Catholic Church as Co-Redeemer in a “new thread”?
Respectfully
God Bless, GT
S
saveusfromhell
Guest
no gary it probably is off topic, i just poiting out the magnitude of the wedding feast at canna. in so far as it being the first miracle so everybody knows it no matter how little of the new testament they read. jesus tells us it is not the way it was laid out to happen but because our lady asked him to do it on behalf of her friends it changed.
I understand as much as i’m capable of, that God being God always knew Mary would ask him, but in so much as she had free will if she had decided not to there would have been a different first miracle.
so his comments it is not my time or directed more to us than to mary, highlighting the power of her intercession.
I understand as much as i’m capable of, that God being God always knew Mary would ask him, but in so much as she had free will if she had decided not to there would have been a different first miracle.
so his comments it is not my time or directed more to us than to mary, highlighting the power of her intercession.
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
Sorry I haven’t been here for a bit to talk. I just read through this topic again.
I know where the Hail Mary came from I read the History, read the Bible and Luke several times, I get it. Second part of the Hail Mary is from the Council of Trent, and rightly so, this “IS” the very essense of the Blessed Mother interceeding on our behalf? So what are you saying? What part is wrong and not FACT, in your exact “MOSTLY NO” whats the EXACT referrence? What NO? What part of the Holy Rosary is MOSTLY NO? Are you actually Catholic and accept the Doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church? Because thats what this prayer is.
Second of all I clearly undstand everything on “ALL” the posts here. I graduated college with a 3.9 average.
The CONFUSION in the above posts has NOTHING to do with the Rosary. The Confusion is wrongly proclaimed in Counting Beads as the Rosary. Thats not the Rosary. Its simply a way to count prayers, not the Rosary! Wheres the confusion with this? The Rosary did NOT come long before. We are talking TWO DIFFERENT CHURCH CONCEPTs. ALL religions used Counting Bead methods, Buddists, Muslims, what does this have to do with the ROSARY? I KNOW rocks, pebbles, and everything under the sun was counted as Prayers in many, many faiths before the Rosary came along. What does that have to do with the Rosary??? PLEASE EXPLAIN in any educated way you can?
Bead counting as Hesychios is referring to is NOT A MYSTERY to me. I get him. We are NOT talking the same RELIGION here. Do “YOU” understand that?
Look, give me a moment to find the actual History so “we” can all get on the same page here. THEN we can discuss this. From whatever perspective you would like to. But slipping and sliding in non-belief of the Catholic Faith doesn’t go over my head.
And the fact that EVERTHING in the Catholic Faith is not in the Bible has to do with exactly what?
Brother …Its my fault I didn’t post this first. And I wouldn’t be telling you this at this moment. But do to the length of posts, I am sticking to Priority Points. I wasn’t expecting to debate the Catholic faith with a Catholic??? But in case you missed this, this has been where this converstaion has been headed many, many posts back. I was simply being polite and discussing the topic one step at a time.
newadvent.org/cathen/13184b.htm
OK here it is. Read this, THEN come back here and we will talk about the Rosary and what I believe, what YOU believe and what Hesychios believes…OK.
And when you say the Rosary is MYTH. Thats a Blasphemey of the Catholic Faith. You are NOW talking about the OUR FATHER, and the word of GOD and the Doctrine of the Vatican? And the very idea that The Blessed Mother Redeems through Jesus Christ. Again Doctrine of the Catholic Faith. Maybe you didn’t intentionally mean what you said. Or say what you meant. And I have no contempt for this man, I do not judge him. I’m a DEVOTE follower of the CATHOLIC FAITH. Thats what I am, what is not to understand here? Clearly understanding the AUTHORITY of the Vatican? That seems the essense of the Problem that we are getting around to.
And when they place anything in Doctrine be it from someone who was once a human man and is now a Saint. Apparition, etc. Or if its directly from the Bible. Its then DOCTRINE. Thats the excplicit right of the Catholic Church. And this is well thought out buy Scholars of this faith. And has been for Thousands of years.
Ther REAL difference above is NOT the Rosary. It is the VERY essense of the CATHOLIC FAITH that this man does not believe or except?.And I’m here to debat it? Without prejudice, without anger, without contempt. But you simply can’t come here and Mock and Ridicule the very Religion I Believe in without me saying something.
So never mind the slow down. Think about YOU what your saying before YOU say it. I’m good where I’m at in my faith.
Conversion of Faith? This man is a Chrstian, he’s NOT converting to YOUR Faith. And he doesn’t need to. he’s basically telling you your Faith in nonsense and YOU are agreeing with that??? He clearly understands the Council of Trent he actually made mention of it.
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
You know what Bro, I confused one word in that post and didn’t understand what you were saying. Really its my error and I am Sorry.
Much Love,
God Bless, GT
P
paperwight
Guest
Again, I get the impression you read very quickly and so miss out on some meanings.
You claimed that the Hail Mary ‘came directly from Gabriel’.I pointed out that no, this is only partly true, and in fact, is so little true that it is an untruth.
The Hail Mary did not come directly from Gabriel. Only the first words did. The majority is from other sources viz. the words of St. Elizabeth at the Visitation, and the second half added at the time of Trent.
I see now that you admit this yourself.
How you got from there to claiming that I said the Rosary is ‘mostly no’ and a myth is total mystery.
I see you also became confused when reading Savedfromhell’s post (admittedly, how that post was phrased was a little confusing).
So I repeat. slow down, and read what’s there. not what you think is there.
H
Hesychios
Guest
Hello Gary,
I haven’t been here a long time either, and I am only posting this to clean away some of the misconceptions that seem to linger here.
It has been developing, or evolving continually until the last few hundred years.
I myself specifically pointed out that the legend that the rosary was given to saint Dominic was a myth.
That is not blasphemy, it is pointing out reality. Is there something sinful about telling the Truth here?
The Catholic Encyclopedia, which I already linked to previously, clearly points out that no mention of Saint Dominic being associated with the rosary was made for 250 years, until Alan de la Roche published his myth (a pious, if somewhat untruthful, work of fiction). In his own time and for two centuries afterward there was no mention of an apparition between the BVM and saint Dominic associating the rosary between them.
Today, many people believe what de la Roche wrote. We can’t do much about that anymore, even if it is not true. But I think that it is wrong to perpetuate these untruths and half-truths in the name of religion. When the story loses credibility, the church is the innocent casualty and also loses credibility through no fault of it’s own. You aptly demonstrate this by equating debunking pious fiction with blasphemy, presumably in the hope of shutting down discussion on the topic. But it will not go away.
It is people like you who get hurt, because they build so many expectations into the legend that when they discover it is not true, they can become so disheartened that they can lose faith. It can crumble like a house of cards, and does among many young people. All of that is completely unnecessary.
I propose that we stop spreading this nonsense now, so that future generations of Catholics will not be in jeopardy of their faith.
The evidence is clear:
I haven’t been here a long time either, and I am only posting this to clean away some of the misconceptions that seem to linger here.
You should note that there has been no effort to confuse counting beads (the word bead, btw, is associated with bid, which meant pray) with the rosary. You should also note that the practice of praying the rosary has been a continual traditional development going from our day back into time to the early centuries of Christianity.
It has been developing, or evolving continually until the last few hundred years.
Long before what? Saint Dominic? Yes it did.
I never said the rosary is a myth.
I myself specifically pointed out that the legend that the rosary was given to saint Dominic was a myth.
That is not blasphemy, it is pointing out reality. Is there something sinful about telling the Truth here?
The Catholic Encyclopedia, which I already linked to previously, clearly points out that no mention of Saint Dominic being associated with the rosary was made for 250 years, until Alan de la Roche published his myth (a pious, if somewhat untruthful, work of fiction). In his own time and for two centuries afterward there was no mention of an apparition between the BVM and saint Dominic associating the rosary between them.
Today, many people believe what de la Roche wrote. We can’t do much about that anymore, even if it is not true. But I think that it is wrong to perpetuate these untruths and half-truths in the name of religion. When the story loses credibility, the church is the innocent casualty and also loses credibility through no fault of it’s own. You aptly demonstrate this by equating debunking pious fiction with blasphemy, presumably in the hope of shutting down discussion on the topic. But it will not go away.
It is people like you who get hurt, because they build so many expectations into the legend that when they discover it is not true, they can become so disheartened that they can lose faith. It can crumble like a house of cards, and does among many young people. All of that is completely unnecessary.
I propose that we stop spreading this nonsense now, so that future generations of Catholics will not be in jeopardy of their faith.
The evidence is clear:
- The rosary is real.
- The Blessed Mother did not give it to Saint Dominic nor tell him to spread it.
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
What is NOT TRUE about the Rosary?
By the way before we go further did you read the above link about the Rosary?
By the way before we go further did you read the above link about the Rosary?
P
paperwight
Guest
Perhaps your post crossed with that of Hesychios. No one is saying that the Rosary is not true (whatever you mean by that).
Read about the history carefully, Gary. Don’t you trust the Catholic Encyclopedia? The pious story about St. Dominic is what’s not historically true.
As a matter of interest, what do you mean by the Rosary being true, anyway? Presumably you are not accusing fellow-Catholics of not accepting the events described in the Gospels, or of saying that Mary’s prayers are not powerful, or of not accepting that many people find saying the Rosary in its present form very helpful in their spiritual lives.
What exactly is bothering you? That a legend about St. Dominic doesn’t pass any historical test? How is that so important?
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
Oh wow, I just read this, good morning my friend. No need to re-hash, I’m good were your at.
As the link above states, if you read thorugh it. We can’t date the Rosary as it is today, to anyone but St. Dominic.
I understand the Promise’s of the Rosary evolved, well actually all the way up to Pope John Paul II. And this started years after the Rosary. I undstand that specific events would have lead up to the Rosary actually reaching the point it reached at the time of St Dominic.
Yet the Rosary as it is today and was given to St Dominic cannot be attributed to anyone but St Dominic. Where’s the link that would show us the History of this?
When you get to the bottom line. The Rosary became instilled in the Faith as it is. And this has to be attributed to someone. At some time it evlolved through stones, beads, to what 150-100 prays. Yet to evolve and become a practice is it was at the Time of St Dominic and is today. Has to be dated some where?
Why is difficult to believe this man, did exactly as was said, then became a advocate of the Rosary? I not getting that? What it is that you cannot believe? That the Blessed Mother could actually appear to someone? Do you believe she could do that is she so desired? Whats the Myth part?
Hey I like to talk and learn?
God Bess, GT
- Status