The Rosary and the promises of Our Lady

[AnneElliot]

yes, and of course you are more knowledgable than a priest

I backed up my assertion with evidence. You are free to take it or leave it.

Not that it means anything, but I do have a degree in Theology and I got darn good grades. I know what the Church teaches about our Blessed Mother, and I didn’t need a Theology degree to express it, either. It’s in the Catechism, it’s in the writings of the Saints, it’s in our Liturgy… Marian devotion is a part of Catholic life and prayer whether you or any priest likes it or not.

Again, check out St. Louis de Montfort’s True Devotion to Mary. I’d send you a copy (free of charge) if you’d actually read it.

 

[AnneElliot]

True Devotion to Mary online provided by EWTN:
ewtn.com/library/montfort/truedevo.htm

 

[Hesychios]

ann i have to agree with anne, though i don’t believe this, the ‘church’ has made this proclamation.

Which proclamation were you thinking of, specifically?

 

[Hesychios]

You have taken what I have written way out of context. There is nothing mythological in what I have said.

Simply put, you have the choice to believe in tradition, The Bible, and/or private revelation (approved and not approved). Yes our faith is based on intelligence and reason, it is not a blind faith.

Moreover, you can choose to break down each and every response to find an “error” or something not in line with your own thinking and experience.

HOWEVER…choosing to use your God given faculties and graces for the good of your neighbor (meaning anyone in your life) unselfishlessly is faith in action.’ and the whole point of living.

Without action or deeds attached to God’s vine, your faith is weak at best. Being “book smart” only takes one so far…then once again it is a matter of the heart!

There is NOTHING mythological about this point repeated in a different manner.
**
Give your mind a little break, it needs it from time to time! **

We have strayed way off the main question and that is promises of the Rosary. And my simple response way back in the thread was a focus on Prayer vs. Promises. And the redemptive role of our Blessed Mother.

I am not sure I understand what you are trying to say, can you put it in more concrete terms? I do not believe that the rosary has no value, on the contrary I think it is a wonderful set of prayers. I do believe in the communion of saints, I believe that we can intercede for one another, and the saints can intercede for us. I further believe the the prayer of the Holy Theotokos is efficacious, I sing her praises.

But specifically, my position is that the alleged promises are a fake. I don’t believe in these promises, I think it is beneath any saint to make the claims that this ‘apparition’ makes. It is a prideful and arrogant display, and I don’t believe it is from the Blessed Mother.

As a separate matter, I don’t believe that the Blessed Mother ever appeared to Saint Dominic and gave him the rosary. I am not alone in this opinion, many devout and learned Catholic religious have shared this scholarly opinion, which is where I learned it.

So there, I have laid it out. I have said what I think and why. Am I supposed to refrain from saying this out of charity?

 

[Norval]

The last and most explicit gift of saying the rosary that comes to my mind is the miracle of the first atomic bomb incident. There were 8 German Jesuit priests living in the rectory adjacent to the church which was eight blocks from ground “0” in Hiroshima. I do not remember the name of the one priest for certain, it was something like Shaffer or Schiffer. He had just finished saying mass and had just set down at he table with his breakfast, a grapefruit (that I remember) and he saw a large flash. He thought it to be an accident in the harbor as they refueled submarines there. In the next instant he was slammed up against the wall and tossed about. He wound up outside with a few pieces of glass in his neck. All he could see round about was utter destruction and fires. The church was gone and the only thing left standing was the rectory.
All eight of the priests survived. They had no major injuries, They had no burns from the blast and they suffered no radiation effects then or later. They claimed the miracle was due to their faithful devotion to Mother Mary and the rosary.
Father Shaffer was in the United States during the mid 70’s recounting his story.

There were also some Franciscan monks, I believe they were brothers, that also survived the Nagasaki bomb. As I remember the Franciscans were in their chapel, which was separate from their residence, saying the rosary when the blast occurred. The only thing left standing in the immediate area was the little chapel.
(as a side light this group of Franciscans was founded or started by Maximilian Kolbe now a saint.)

God Bless !!!

 

[Ann1231]

True Devotion to Mary online provided by EWTN:
ewtn.com/library/montfort/truedevo.htm

read it. have serious, serious questions to ask the Bishop here. Will get responses soon hopefully.

“When therefore we read in the writings of Saint Bernard, Saint Bernardine, Saint Bonaventure, and others that all in heaven and on earth, even God himself, is subject to the Blessed Virgin, they mean that the authority which God was pleased to give her is so great that she seems to have the same power as God.”

uh, seriously? I have a real hard time thinking that God Himself would be subject to the Blessed Virgin…

 

[AnneElliot]

read it. have serious, serious questions to ask the Bishop here. Will get responses soon hopefully.

“When therefore we read in the writings of Saint Bernard, Saint Bernardine, Saint Bonaventure, and others that all in heaven and on earth, even God himself, is subject to the Blessed Virgin, they mean that the authority which God was pleased to give her is so great that she seems to have the same power as God.”

uh, seriously? I have a real hard time thinking that God Himself would be subject to the Blessed Virgin…

Jesus is God. Jesus obeyed the 4th Commandment. He subjected Himself to His parents.

In addition, He could freely subject Himself to His Blessed Mother knowing that what she would will of Him was in total accord with the will of God.

 

[Ann1231]

Jesus is God. Jesus obeyed the 4th Commandment. He subjected Himself to His parents.

that’s not exactly what they’re saying here.

 

[AnneElliot]

that’s not exactly what they’re saying here.

I added to my original post.

Mary never willed anything that was contrary to Divine Providence.

 

[Ann1231]

I added to my original post.

Mary never willed anything that was contrary to Divine Providence.

I saw the addition after I replied. I sent off a long letter with questions (as mentioned earlier). Am curious what the response will be. Will let you know if you’re interested.

 

[AnneElliot]

I saw the addition after I replied. I sent off a long letter with questions (as mentioned earlier). Am curious what the response will be. Will let you know if you’re interested.

I am interested. Keep me posted.

Bishops are busy men. I’ve written to my own Bishop several times, and while I’ve always gotten a reply, it wasn’t necessarily from the Bishop himself.

 

[Ann1231]

I am interested. Keep me posted.

Bishops are busy men. I’ve written to my own Bishop several times, and while I’ve always gotten a reply, it wasn’t necessarily from the Bishop himself.

I will as soon as I hear anything. I know they’re busy but sometimes being friends helps, whether it’s priests, bishops, etc…

 

[Jim_Pilarski]

I started praying the Rosary to keep my mind from entertaining bad thoughts while on the freeways of Los Angeles. My goal is not to receive anything, but perhaps safety as I commute 80 miles a day on a motorcycle. What I have received is not quantifiable, safety yes, but much more. My faith in Christ and joy in each and every Mass has magnified. My family has been blessed as well, although they are not aware of why, or my thoughts of why they have been blessed. About a year ago I was asked to be an Extraordinary Minister to those who are dieing. This small effort on my part has proven to be an extraordinary blessing to both my wife and to me. I do not say the Rosary to be rewarded, but rewared I have been. Our Lady and her Son, my Lord and Savior, are in my thoughts and prayers daily and because I think of them so often with delight it seems they think of me often and make me delighted.
God Bless you - pray for the sick and those who have died.

 

[Ann1231]

I started praying the Rosary to keep my mind from entertaining bad thoughts while on the freeways of Los Angeles. My goal is not to receive anything, but perhaps safety as I commute 80 miles a day on a motorcycle. What I have received is not quantifiable, safety yes, but much more. My faith in Christ and joy in each and every Mass has magnified. My family has been blessed as well, although they are not aware of why, or my thoughts of why they have been blessed. About a year ago I was asked to be an Extraordinary Minister to those who are dieing. This small effort on my part has proven to be an extraordinary blessing to both my wife and to me. I do not say the Rosary to be rewarded, but rewared I have been. Our Lady and her Son, my Lord and Savior, are in my thoughts and prayers daily and because I think of them so often with delight it seems they think of me often and make me delighted.
God Bless you - pray for the sick and those who have died.

that’s a beautiful testimony!

 

[Monica4316]

are you really a catholic?

who do you mean?

I talked with my priest about this and he said some people focus so much on Mary that they lose sight of the fact that Jesus is our sole salvation. Yes, Mary was blessed, but it’s Jesus we should be focusing on. God sent Jesus to be with us to be our direct line to Him. We should honor her but he felt many were taking this to an extreme as far as giving her the credit (prayers, focus, etc.) that we should be giving Jesus. The apostles followed and listened to Jesus, they didn’t “follow Mary” in the same sense so why are some people today? I tend to agree with him.

The most ‘Marian’ Saints were all aware that Jesus is our salvation… I don’t believe that Mary leads us further from Jesus. If we pray to her or think of her, she will only teach us how to love Jesus better. Even if we give ourselves to her, she won’t keep us for herself, but give us perfectly to Jesus. (that’s the concept behind the Total Consecration to Jesus through Mary). We come to Mary for the sake of coming closer to Jesus… that’s the difference. She also helps us to overcome sin so we are more pleasing to God. None of this means that Jesus is not our only salvation… Mary is His Mother and brings us closer to Jesus… it’s really quite simple…

yes, and of course you are more knowledgable than a priest

there are many other priests who think otherwise. It’s important to look at the teaching of the Church. The Church says that Jesus is indeed our salvation and we need to focus on Him, but we have a devotion to Mary as a way of focusing on Jesus… we go with her, to Him.

The last and most explicit gift of saying the rosary that comes to my mind is the miracle of the first atomic bomb incident. There were 8 German Jesuit priests living in the rectory adjacent to the church which was eight blocks from ground “0” in Hiroshima. I do not remember the name of the one priest for certain, it was something like Shaffer or Schiffer. He had just finished saying mass and had just set down at he table with his breakfast, a grapefruit (that I remember) and he saw a large flash. He thought it to be an accident in the harbor as they refueled submarines there. In the next instant he was slammed up against the wall and tossed about. He wound up outside with a few pieces of glass in his neck. All he could see round about was utter destruction and fires. The church was gone and the only thing left standing was the rectory.
All eight of the priests survived. They had no major injuries, They had no burns from the blast and they suffered no radiation effects then or later. They claimed the miracle was due to their faithful devotion to Mother Mary and the rosary.
Father Shaffer was in the United States during the mid 70’s recounting his story.

There were also some Franciscan monks, I believe they were brothers, that also survived the Nagasaki bomb. As I remember the Franciscans were in their chapel, which was separate from their residence, saying the rosary when the blast occurred. The only thing left standing in the immediate area was the little chapel.
(as a side light this group of Franciscans was founded or started by Maximilian Kolbe now a saint.)

God Bless !!!

wow! praise God!

read it. have serious, serious questions to ask the Bishop here. Will get responses soon hopefully.

“When therefore we read in the writings of Saint Bernard, Saint Bernardine, Saint Bonaventure, and others that all in heaven and on earth, even God himself, is subject to the Blessed Virgin, they mean that the authority which God was pleased to give her is so great that she seems to have the same power as God.”

uh, seriously? I have a real hard time thinking that God Himself would be subject to the Blessed Virgin…

I think maybe you are misunderstanding what De Montfort is saying here. **He clarifies this point in other sections of the book **. He is saying that Mary’s prayers are so powerful that God does what she asks, - but it says this in the Bible too, “the prayer of a righteous man avails much”. Mary is His Mother, not only a Saint. But of course, she never EVER asks anything apart from God’s will she only ever does His will… De Montfort says this too.

“True Devotion” is a book that needs to be read slowly and prayerfully and it’s not something you understand with logic, but with your heart. St Louis de Montfort is not putting Mary equal to Jesus… he just teaches us a way of coming closer to Jesus by coming to Him with and through His Mother.

God bless

 

[thetruth0flife]

Not necessarily. I do believe the Gospels say repeatedly that whatever we NEED will be provided, not whatever we WANT. There’s a vast difference.

You’re wrong. Two people trying to be the President of the United States by praying the Rosary and it not happening is an unrealistic theory. As you know, only one person can become the president of the United States. There are laws here on this earth that don’t allow for two people to be the president at the same time. Your theory or story is a bit confusing for I’m not sure whether you mean that them both becoming the president at the same time or simply one not becoming the president even though he prayed the Rosary?

Also, the outcome of who wins the presidency would be a matter of luck, popularity, thinking skills, votes and intelligence. It would be based on the persons effort and will to become the president of the United States that would determine if he does or not win the elections.

 

[nickybr38]

You’re wrong. Two people trying to be the President of the United States by praying the Rosary and it not happening is an unrealistic theory. As you know, only one person can become the president of the United States. There are laws here on this earth that don’t allow for two people to be the president at the same time. Your theory or story is a bit confusing for I’m not sure whether you mean that them both becoming the president at the same time or simply one not becoming the president even though he prayed the Rosary?

Also, the outcome of who wins the presidency would be a matter of luck, popularity, thinking skills, votes and intelligence. It would be based on the persons effort and will to become the president of the United States that would determine if he does or not win the elections.

My point was not EVERYTHING we want will be given to us, because, like in my example, if two people ask for the same thing that only ONE person can have then one will NOT receive the ‘blessing’ of getting what he wants. Therefore the promise cannot be true.

 

[thetruth0flife]

My point was not EVERYTHING we want will be given to us, because, like in my example, if two people ask for the same thing that only ONE person can have then one will NOT receive the ‘blessing’ of getting what he wants. Therefore the promise cannot be true.

The Rosary was specifically designed to meet individuals spiritual needs not material needs. For example, healing, help in marriage, lack of faith, conversion, family issues, self-personal problems, guidance, peace, divine protection and other examples. All those are spiritual needs. Wanting to become the president of the United States through the Rosary is more of a greedy purpose. Don’t you think that it’s something too big? I personally wouldn’t ask those things in my own humble opinion. When individuals pray, it’s usually because something spiritual has gone wrong.

When you go to church, it’s because you care about your spirituality and try to make sure that it’s healthy. Worry more about your spiritual health/needs than your material needs.

• 31 “So don’t worry about these things, saying, ‘What will we eat? What will we drink? What will we wear?’ 32 These things dominate the thoughts of unbelievers, but your heavenly Father already knows all your needs. 33 Seek the Kingdom of God[d] above all else, and live righteously, and he will give you everything you need./*

Passage Matthew 6:31-33

Following the ten commandments of Jesus and being his follower will assure that you have what you need to survive in this planet. It’s that simple. He loves you and is your friend and wouldn’t let you starve to death or die.

When our Lady made that promise she had in mind that the humble and obedient followers of Christ will ask humble and little things that are possible through prayer. There are other factores and circumstances that require personal effort and hard work if wanting to become the president of the United States.

 

[AnneElliot]

My point was not EVERYTHING we want will be given to us, because, like in my example, if two people ask for the same thing that only ONE person can have then one will NOT receive the ‘blessing’ of getting what he wants. Therefore the promise cannot be true.

Of course not everything we want will be given to us. Don’t be ridiculous! The Rosary is about conformity to the Will of God. The more we pray the Rosary, the more we draw near to Jesus, and our wills are conformed to the Will of God. Thus, whatever we ask for in prayer, in accordance with Divine Providence, will be given to us.

Also, your example is faulty… 2 people can be President. Perhaps one would hold the office after the other, or vice versa.

God’s answer(s) to our prayers is not necessarily immediate (or the way in which our limited human knowledge would like), but works within the scope of Providence. That’s the whole point of prayer… conformity to the Divine Will. The more you pray the Rosary, the more conformed you become (or should become) to the Will of God.

Is it a bit of a circular effect? Yes, but that’s the point.

 

[nickybr38]

I’m being ridiculous and yet the eleventh promise is:
11. What you shall ask through my Rosary you shall obtain.

I have nothing against the Rosary, I do not like the promises.