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AnneElliot
Guest
He could. God did give us ten fingers… the beads are helpful in praying the Rosary, but one can manage without them. If I didn’t have a rosary, I’d use my fingers to follow along.
- Status
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Vico
Guest
The phrase Queen of Heaven is not used for Mary in the Bible. It is a logical conclusion based on traditions and the Bible as given in Ad Caeli Reginam:
“He “will reign in the house of Jacob forever,”[5] “the Prince of Peace,”[6] the “King of Kings and Lord of Lords.”[7]” – [5]. Luc. I, 32.; [6]. Isai. IX, 6. ; [7]. Apoc. XIX, 16.
“38 …it may be legitimately concluded that as Christ, the new Adam, must be called a King not merely because He is Son of God, but also because He is our Redeemer, so, analogously, the Most Blessed Virgin is queen not only because she is Mother of God, but also because, as the new Eve, she was associated with the new Adam.”
vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_11101954_ad-caeli-reginam_en.html
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Alexander_Roman
Guest
Dear Ed,
You list your religions as “Baptist, Catholic, Lutheran.”
Well, as a Baptist I would say, “no” to your questions.
As a Catholic, I would say, “Yes.”
And as a Lutheran, I would say, “Could be, but doesn’t have to be.”
I guess you are entitled to take your pick!
Alex
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Alexander_Roman
Guest
Dear AnneElliott,He could. God did give us ten fingers… the beads are helpful in praying the Rosary, but one can manage without them. If I didn’t have a rosary, I’d use my fingers to follow along.
In fact, I once met a Chinese Catholic bishop who had spent 27 years in a Chinese communist prison for his faith
He said there was only one window, high above where he could not look out . . .
And he said they took away his prayer-books and everything.
So he prayed the Rosary, over and over, on his ten fingers.
Of course, the number “ten” refers to the ten strings on the musical instrument of the Psalter and shows how the Rosary is a Marian reflection of David’s Psalms.
In Psalm 44:11, King David (according to St Athanasius in his Letter to Marcellinus on the Psalms) calls the Virgin Mary, the future Mother of the Messiah, “Daughter” since she would be of his royal line. So the Rosary and the Psalter are very integral to one another.
And, in fact, the early Rosary Confraternities of Blessed Alan de la Roches contained the stipulation that members pray both the full Rosary and the entire book of Psalms each week.
Alex
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Alexander_Roman
Guest
Dear Vico,
And, in fact, the Most Holy Virgin Mary appeared to the Apostles soon after her Dormition and Assumption with a crown and sceptre - an event that is still celebrated by Orthodox monastics in their daily pre-dinner ritual called the “Panaghia.” Her Queenship goes back to Apostolic times. Alex
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Alexander_Roman
Guest
Dear Ed,
Forgive me for my earlier flippancy (yes, I gave in to temptation!)
The Rosary, properly said (and I like to use the Scriptural Rosary to aid my meditation) is an aid to deepen our devotion to God and Christ. Why does Mary do that? Precisely because of her role in salvation, giving flesh to God, as you affirm as well.
As for things outside the Bible - that is something that can’t be easily resolved. Where does it say, for example, that the New Testament has 27 books? Martin Luther expunged James and Revelation among some others because he didn’t agree with them. As for “faith alone,” the only time this is mentioned is in James where it is denied.
In fact, we get the strongest arguments for the need for the wider context of Christian Tradition (of which Scripture is its Heart) when we read about the battle between Michael and Satan for the body of Moses (nowhere in the OT). Or the judgement seat of the Temple (not ordained in the OT).
In the first chapter of John’s Gospel, there is Nathaniel’s exclamation to Christ that “You are the true Teacher of Israel etc.” when our Lord tells him that He saw him under the sycamore tree."
I always wondered what that “really” meant. In fact, it is based on a story recounted in the deuterocanonical gospels (never condemned by the Church, but not included in the New Testament canon either). The story was that Nathaniel and his family were in Egypt when a plague broke out that killed his brother. His mother heard about a “miracle child” in the vicinity and went to seek out … Mary from Bethlehem. She begged Mary to help her and so Mary told her to place Nathaniel on the bed clothes of her Son, Jesus, that were under the . . . sycamore tree. When she did, Nathaniel was instantly cured.
Only Nathaniel, his mother, Jesus and Mary would have known about that. So when Christ mentioned seeing him under the sycamore tree, Nathaniel knew that Jesus was the “miracle child” who cured him by the touch of his clothing. Early Christians were very familiar with these deuterocanonical New Testament writings and much of the information contained in them were carried over into the liturgical prayers of the Church (and the Eastern Orthodox Churches especially).
The glory of Mary and the Saints is something we can genuinely surmise from the Book of Revelation, the prayers of the Saints being presented to God, the martyrs etc.
The Cross and icons that fill Eastern Churches especially were also used to teach people about the Bible.
In fact, most people did not read the Bible widely until the 18th and 19th centuries - they just didn’t read as they were too engaged with the business of survival through physical work.
Apart from that, icons continue to teach us very directly, as Scripture does as well, about Christ being both God and Man, the parables etc.
I don’t see Scripture and Sacred Art being in competition - they complement one another in the liturgical context of our public worship of God.
Alex
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GaryTaylor
Guest
Dear friend, what a difference there is between a soul brought up in the ordinary way to resemble Jesus Christ by people who, like sculptors, rely on their own skill and industry, and a soul thoroughly tractable, entirely detached, most ready to be moulded in her by the working of the Holy Spirit. What blemishes and defects, what shadows and distortions, what natural and human imperfections are found in the first soul, and what a faithful and divine likeness to Jesus is found in the second!
There is not and there will never be, either in God’s creation or in his mind, a creature in whom he is so honoured as in the most Blessed Virgin Mary, not excepting even the saints, the cherubim or the highest seraphim in heaven. Mary is God’s garden of Paradise, his own unspeakable world, into which his Son entered to do wonderful things, to tend it and to take his delight in it. He created a world for the wayfarer, that is, the one we are living in. He created a second world - Paradise - for the Blessed. He created a third for himself, which he named Mary. She is a world unknown to most mortals here on earth. Even the angels and saints in heaven find her incomprehensible, and are lost in admiration of a God who is so exalted and so far above them, so distant from them, and so enclosed in Mary, his chosen world, that they exclaim: “Holy, holy, holy” unceasingly.
Happy, indeed sublimely happy, is the person to whom the Holy Spirit reveals the secret of Mary, thus imparting to him true knowledge of her. Happy the person to whom the Holy Spirit opens this enclosed garden for him to enter, and to whom the Holy Spirit gives access to this sealed fountain where he can draw water and drink deep draughts of the living waters of grace. That person will find only grace and no creature in the most lovable Virgin Mary. But he will find that the infinitely holy and exalted God is at the same time infinitely solicitous for him and understands his weaknesses. Since God is everywhere, he can be found everywhere, even in hell. But there is no place where God can be more present to his creature and more sympathetic to human weakness than in Mary. It was indeed for this very purpose that he came down from heaven. Everywhere else he is the Bread of the strong and the Bread of angels, but living in Mary he is the Bread of children.
Let us not imagine, then, as some misguided teachers do, that Mary being simply a creature would be a hindrance to union with the Creator. Far from it, for it is no longer Mary who lives but Jesus Christ himself, God alone, who lives in her. Her transformation into God far surpasses that experienced by St Paul and other saints, more than heaven surpasses the earth. Mary was created only for God, and it is unthinkable that she should reserve even one soul for herself. On the contrary she leads every soul to God and to union with him. Mary is the wonderful echo of God. The more a person joins himself to her, the more effectively she unites him to God. When we say “Mary”, she re-echoes “God”. When, like St Elizabeth, we call her blessed, she gives the honour to God. If those misguided ones who were so sadly led astray by the devil, even in their prayer-life, had known how to discover Mary, and Jesus through her, and God through Jesus, they would not have had such terrible falls. The saints tell us that when we have once found Mary, and through Mary Jesus, and through Jesus God the Father, then we have discovered every good. When we say “every good”, we except nothing. “Every good” includes every grace, continuous friendship with God, every protection against the enemies of God, possession of truth to counter every falsehood, endless benefits and unfailing headway against the hazards we meet on the way to salvation, and finally every consolation and joy amid the bitter afflictions of life.
God the Father, from whom, as from its essential source, every perfect gift and every grace come down to us , gave her every grace when he gave her his Son. Thus, as St Bernard says, the will of God is manifested to her in Jesus and with Jesus.
God chose her to be the treasurer, the administrator and the dispenser of all his graces, so that all his graces and gifts pass through her hands. Such is the power that she has received from him that, according to St Bernardine, she gives the graces of the eternal Father, the virtues of Jesus Christ, and the gifts of the Holy Spirit to whom she wills, as and when she wills, and as much as she wills.
As in the natural life a child must have a father and a mother, so in the supernatural life of grace a true child of the Church must have God for his Father and Mary for his mother. If he prides himself on having God for his Father but does not give to Mary the tender affection of a true child, he is an impostor and his father is the devil.
St Louis de Montfort
I had the same rap you hear above. Its not in the Bible etc. Praying the Rosary has been like having the lights turned on in the dark. Its been that profound of an experience.
Blessed be that monotony of the Hail Marys, which purifies the monotony of your sins!
There is not and there will never be, either in God’s creation or in his mind, a creature in whom he is so honoured as in the most Blessed Virgin Mary, not excepting even the saints, the cherubim or the highest seraphim in heaven. Mary is God’s garden of Paradise, his own unspeakable world, into which his Son entered to do wonderful things, to tend it and to take his delight in it. He created a world for the wayfarer, that is, the one we are living in. He created a second world - Paradise - for the Blessed. He created a third for himself, which he named Mary. She is a world unknown to most mortals here on earth. Even the angels and saints in heaven find her incomprehensible, and are lost in admiration of a God who is so exalted and so far above them, so distant from them, and so enclosed in Mary, his chosen world, that they exclaim: “Holy, holy, holy” unceasingly.
Happy, indeed sublimely happy, is the person to whom the Holy Spirit reveals the secret of Mary, thus imparting to him true knowledge of her. Happy the person to whom the Holy Spirit opens this enclosed garden for him to enter, and to whom the Holy Spirit gives access to this sealed fountain where he can draw water and drink deep draughts of the living waters of grace. That person will find only grace and no creature in the most lovable Virgin Mary. But he will find that the infinitely holy and exalted God is at the same time infinitely solicitous for him and understands his weaknesses. Since God is everywhere, he can be found everywhere, even in hell. But there is no place where God can be more present to his creature and more sympathetic to human weakness than in Mary. It was indeed for this very purpose that he came down from heaven. Everywhere else he is the Bread of the strong and the Bread of angels, but living in Mary he is the Bread of children.
Let us not imagine, then, as some misguided teachers do, that Mary being simply a creature would be a hindrance to union with the Creator. Far from it, for it is no longer Mary who lives but Jesus Christ himself, God alone, who lives in her. Her transformation into God far surpasses that experienced by St Paul and other saints, more than heaven surpasses the earth. Mary was created only for God, and it is unthinkable that she should reserve even one soul for herself. On the contrary she leads every soul to God and to union with him. Mary is the wonderful echo of God. The more a person joins himself to her, the more effectively she unites him to God. When we say “Mary”, she re-echoes “God”. When, like St Elizabeth, we call her blessed, she gives the honour to God. If those misguided ones who were so sadly led astray by the devil, even in their prayer-life, had known how to discover Mary, and Jesus through her, and God through Jesus, they would not have had such terrible falls. The saints tell us that when we have once found Mary, and through Mary Jesus, and through Jesus God the Father, then we have discovered every good. When we say “every good”, we except nothing. “Every good” includes every grace, continuous friendship with God, every protection against the enemies of God, possession of truth to counter every falsehood, endless benefits and unfailing headway against the hazards we meet on the way to salvation, and finally every consolation and joy amid the bitter afflictions of life.
God the Father, from whom, as from its essential source, every perfect gift and every grace come down to us , gave her every grace when he gave her his Son. Thus, as St Bernard says, the will of God is manifested to her in Jesus and with Jesus.
God chose her to be the treasurer, the administrator and the dispenser of all his graces, so that all his graces and gifts pass through her hands. Such is the power that she has received from him that, according to St Bernardine, she gives the graces of the eternal Father, the virtues of Jesus Christ, and the gifts of the Holy Spirit to whom she wills, as and when she wills, and as much as she wills.
As in the natural life a child must have a father and a mother, so in the supernatural life of grace a true child of the Church must have God for his Father and Mary for his mother. If he prides himself on having God for his Father but does not give to Mary the tender affection of a true child, he is an impostor and his father is the devil.
St Louis de Montfort
I had the same rap you hear above. Its not in the Bible etc. Praying the Rosary has been like having the lights turned on in the dark. Its been that profound of an experience.
Blessed be that monotony of the Hail Marys, which purifies the monotony of your sins!
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
Feast of Our Lady of Sorrows is also coming up on Sept. 15th. I noticed this is page 15 so I thought I’d mention it.
Seven Sorrows are acknowledged by One “Our Father”, and Seven “Hail Marys”, for each of the seven sorrows.
The “Seven Sorrows” are…
Prophecy of Simeon over the infant Jesus
The flight in Egypt of the Holy Family
The loss of the Child Jesus for 3-days
The meeting of Jesus and Mary on the way of the Cross
The Crucifixtion where Mary stands at the foot of the Cross
The Desent from the Cross, Mary receives the body of Jesus in her arms
The Burial of Jesus
Seven Sorrows are acknowledged by One “Our Father”, and Seven “Hail Marys”, for each of the seven sorrows.
The “Seven Sorrows” are…
Prophecy of Simeon over the infant Jesus
The flight in Egypt of the Holy Family
The loss of the Child Jesus for 3-days
The meeting of Jesus and Mary on the way of the Cross
The Crucifixtion where Mary stands at the foot of the Cross
The Desent from the Cross, Mary receives the body of Jesus in her arms
The Burial of Jesus
T
thetruth0flife
Guest
Mary is the Queen of Heaven. It is in the Bible in case you didn’t know.
1 Then I witnessed in heaven an event of great significance. I saw a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon beneath her feet, and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant, and she cried out because of her labor pains and the agony of giving birth.
Revelation 12:1-2
The woman is obiously Mary. It is Mary the mother of God and our Lord savior Jesus because she is the only woman in the Bible that gives birth to a child that is caught up to the throne of God.
5 She gave birth to a son who was to rule all nations with an iron rod. And her child was snatched away from the dragon and was caught up to God and to his throne.
Revelation 12:5
Jesus Christ is the only individual who has the right to rule all nations because he is God and Lord of Lords.
Who are you to be making such claims? This is our Catolic faith and I don’t know why someone else from another religion is telling us what we’re supposed to be doing or what is sin.
T
thetruth0flife
Guest
So you’re saying that if a mother promises you things and tells you to do certain things she is prideful and therefore sinning?
T
thetruth0flife
Guest
Who is saying that Mary promises salvation? Get this straight: if you believe in Mary you believe in Jesus. The Rosary has biblical passges of Jesus Christ himself therefore, you are also putting faith in him. Mary is smart and knows that those who believe in her also believe in Jesus at the same time. In the Bible she clearly says to do what Jesus asks us. Mary doesn’t say, “I promise you to save you and grant you eternity.” Wow, come on, deeper understanding.
T
thetruth0flife
Guest
- Then I witnessed in heaven an event of great significance. I saw a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon beneath her feet, and a crown of twelve stars on her head.*
Silence!
No one is saying that statues are needed for salvation. Now if you’re going to the point of images are anti-biblical that is incorrect for the Biblie never prohibits having saints in the church or statues. In the old testament the Lord further encouraged the use of altars and statues.
The one who looks ignorante on the Biblie seems to be you.
R
ronin67
Guest
Well said. Have a great day Alex!Dear Ed,
You list your religions as “Baptist, Catholic, Lutheran.”
Well, as a Baptist I would say, “no” to your questions.
As a Catholic, I would say, “Yes.”
And as a Lutheran, I would say, “Could be, but doesn’t have to be.”
I guess you are entitled to take your pick!
Alex
May God Bless!
Ed
R
ronin67
Guest
Am I ignorant or am I looking at the new covenant in the new testament or are we under the law in this aspect of the old testament? If it is not needed, why use it?Revelation 12:1
- Then I witnessed in heaven an event of great significance. I saw a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon beneath her feet, and a crown of twelve stars on her head.*
Silence! The reference still doesn’t say queen!!!
No one is saying that statues are needed for salvation. Now if you’re going to the point of images are anti-biblical that is incorrect for the Biblie never prohibits having saints in the church or statues. In the old testament the Lord further encouraged the use of altars and statues.
The one who looks ignorante on the Biblie seems to be you.
May God bless you.
Ed
R
ronin67
Guest
You should have wrote: “Silence naive”, it would have had a more dark ages ring to it. What I saying is, if it is not needed why use it. Your reference in Revelations still doesn’t say queen. You are doing the typical Catholic thing, adding on and reading into scripture taking it out of context with you own labels. What is next, are you going to say I have to work my way into Heaven, as if God’s grace wasn’t good enough? Oh, I’m sorry Catholics do believe that. My bad. I thought Christianity wasn’t a “works based” religion?Revelation 12:1
- Then I witnessed in heaven an event of great significance. I saw a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon beneath her feet, and a crown of twelve stars on her head.*
Silence!
No one is saying that statues are needed for salvation. Now if you’re going to the point of images are anti-biblical that is incorrect for the Biblie never prohibits having saints in the church or statues. In the old testament the Lord further encouraged the use of altars and statues.
The one who looks ignorante on the Biblie seems to be you.
May God Bless!
Ed
R
ronin67
Guest
We do a have a deeper understanding. Mary was the mother of God the son, gave birth to Christ Jesus our savior, and the priority of work shifted with all eyes given attention to our savior Jesus there after. Yes, I love my Holy Mother Mary, but she even recognized her son’s overall role after being raised was to focus everything on him. Remember her and honor her we must, but not to the extent where it seems to encompass to much attention. A far as these people who said they seen visions of Mary all over the world, do you really think those visions and or apparitions were really the Holy Mother Mary? Deceptions of the devil, to draw us away from our Savior as the priority.
May God Bless!
Ed
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
Now how does a Apparition of Blessed Mother draws one away from Jesus Christ and to evil?
When in fact all the apparitions are directly pointing society to Jesus Christ and God. They are all telling you to Pray, They are all telling you to consecrate countries with no Christology to Christ. They are a warning of whats to come if men do not mend there ways and evil continues to increase in the world.
Now this seems like the usual non-catholic ridiculous drival heard constantly by those wishing to drag children of Christ in the wrong direction through denial of Mary. And that there my friend would be of evil.
Heres the 2nd message at Akita from the Blessed Mother in 1973, which is confirmed to coincide with Fatima.
If you love the Lord listen to what I have to say to you. It is very important. You will convey it to your superior. Many men in this world afflict the Lord. I desire souls to console Him to soften the anger of the Heavenly Father. I wish, with my Son, for souls who will repair by their suffering and their poverty for the sinners and ingrates."
“In order that the world might know His anger, the Heavenly Father is preparing to inflict a great chastisement on all mankind. With my Son I have intervened so many times to appease the wrath of the Father. I have prevented the coming calamities by offering Him the sufferings of the Son on the Cross, His Precious Blood, and beloved souls who console Him forming a legion of victim souls. Prayer, penance and courageous sacrifices can soften the Father’s anger. I desire this also from your community. That it love poverty, that it sanctify itself and pray in reparation for the ingratitude and outrages of so many men. Recite the prayer of the Handmaids of the Eucharist with awareness of its meaning; put it into practice; offer in reparation (whatever God may send) for sins. Let each one endeavor, according to capacity and position, to offer herself entirely to the Lord.”
“Even in a secular institute prayer is necessary. Already souls who wish to pray are on the way to being gathered together. Without attaching too much attention to the form, be faithful and fervent in prayer to console the Master.”
Is what you think in your heart true? Are you truly decided to become the rejected stone? My novice, you who wish to belong without reserve to the Lord, to become the spouse worthy of the Spouse make your vows knowing that you must be fastened to the Cross with three nails. These three nails are poverty, chastity, and obedience. Of the three, obedience is the foundation. In total abandon, let yourself be led by your superior. He will know how to understand you and to direct you.
How one concludes anything about the Apparitions of Mary have anything to do with evil is one the most foolish statements I’ve ever read on this forum. You have apparitions witnessed by thousands and confirmed by miracles in Fatima and Zeitoun. And witnessed by those of all faiths including Islam and many atheists. Muslims were healed and converted to christianity. Non believers became faithfull followers of God. NO one came foward to make any claims of these apparitions not being authentic. On the contrary those who nothing of the Blessed Mother, automatically believed what they witnessed way Mary and they verbally confirmed there thoughts under scrutiny.
First Message of the Blessed Virgin: July 6,1973
“My daughter, my novice, you have obeyed me well in abandoning all to follow me. Is the infirmity of your ears painful? Your deafness will be healed, be sure. Be patient. It is the last trial. Dose the wound in your hand cause you to suffer? Pray in reparation for the sins of men. Each person in this community is my irreplaceable daughter. Do you say well the prayer of the Handmaids of the Eucharist? Then, let us pray it together.”
“Pray very much for the Pope, Bishops, and Priests. Since your Baptism you have always prayed faithfully for them. Continue to pray very much… very much. Tell your superior all that passed today and obey him in everything that he will tell you. He has asked that you pray with fervor.”
Heres what Saint Louis de Montfort had to say about this very thinking.
In the supernatural life of grace a true child of the Church must have God for his Father and Mary for his mother. If he prides himself on having God for his Father but does not give to Mary the tender affection of a true child, he is an impostor and his father is the devil.
“The Secret of Mary”
When in fact all the apparitions are directly pointing society to Jesus Christ and God. They are all telling you to Pray, They are all telling you to consecrate countries with no Christology to Christ. They are a warning of whats to come if men do not mend there ways and evil continues to increase in the world.
Now this seems like the usual non-catholic ridiculous drival heard constantly by those wishing to drag children of Christ in the wrong direction through denial of Mary. And that there my friend would be of evil.
Heres the 2nd message at Akita from the Blessed Mother in 1973, which is confirmed to coincide with Fatima.
If you love the Lord listen to what I have to say to you. It is very important. You will convey it to your superior. Many men in this world afflict the Lord. I desire souls to console Him to soften the anger of the Heavenly Father. I wish, with my Son, for souls who will repair by their suffering and their poverty for the sinners and ingrates."
“In order that the world might know His anger, the Heavenly Father is preparing to inflict a great chastisement on all mankind. With my Son I have intervened so many times to appease the wrath of the Father. I have prevented the coming calamities by offering Him the sufferings of the Son on the Cross, His Precious Blood, and beloved souls who console Him forming a legion of victim souls. Prayer, penance and courageous sacrifices can soften the Father’s anger. I desire this also from your community. That it love poverty, that it sanctify itself and pray in reparation for the ingratitude and outrages of so many men. Recite the prayer of the Handmaids of the Eucharist with awareness of its meaning; put it into practice; offer in reparation (whatever God may send) for sins. Let each one endeavor, according to capacity and position, to offer herself entirely to the Lord.”
“Even in a secular institute prayer is necessary. Already souls who wish to pray are on the way to being gathered together. Without attaching too much attention to the form, be faithful and fervent in prayer to console the Master.”
Is what you think in your heart true? Are you truly decided to become the rejected stone? My novice, you who wish to belong without reserve to the Lord, to become the spouse worthy of the Spouse make your vows knowing that you must be fastened to the Cross with three nails. These three nails are poverty, chastity, and obedience. Of the three, obedience is the foundation. In total abandon, let yourself be led by your superior. He will know how to understand you and to direct you.
How one concludes anything about the Apparitions of Mary have anything to do with evil is one the most foolish statements I’ve ever read on this forum. You have apparitions witnessed by thousands and confirmed by miracles in Fatima and Zeitoun. And witnessed by those of all faiths including Islam and many atheists. Muslims were healed and converted to christianity. Non believers became faithfull followers of God. NO one came foward to make any claims of these apparitions not being authentic. On the contrary those who nothing of the Blessed Mother, automatically believed what they witnessed way Mary and they verbally confirmed there thoughts under scrutiny.
First Message of the Blessed Virgin: July 6,1973
“My daughter, my novice, you have obeyed me well in abandoning all to follow me. Is the infirmity of your ears painful? Your deafness will be healed, be sure. Be patient. It is the last trial. Dose the wound in your hand cause you to suffer? Pray in reparation for the sins of men. Each person in this community is my irreplaceable daughter. Do you say well the prayer of the Handmaids of the Eucharist? Then, let us pray it together.”
“Pray very much for the Pope, Bishops, and Priests. Since your Baptism you have always prayed faithfully for them. Continue to pray very much… very much. Tell your superior all that passed today and obey him in everything that he will tell you. He has asked that you pray with fervor.”
Heres what Saint Louis de Montfort had to say about this very thinking.
In the supernatural life of grace a true child of the Church must have God for his Father and Mary for his mother. If he prides himself on having God for his Father but does not give to Mary the tender affection of a true child, he is an impostor and his father is the devil.
“The Secret of Mary”
R
ronin67
Guest
I guess I would have to ask why would Holy Mother Mary (a human being who has passed on and is with our Father) come back at all? For one, it isn’t biblical on her returning and conveying messages (however, it is biblical that lying spirits exist to deceive). Also, why would Mary have to plead the blood of Christ to remind God our Father of this sacrifice? Did God forget? Highly unlikely since it was him in the flesh. In all these accounts did the witnesses test the spirits as dictated in 1 John? The excuse, “Why would we have to test, if it was our Holy Mother Mary”, answer because the bible says so. You don’t think priests throughout time haven’t been deceived by Lucifer and his fallen angels?
May God Bless!
Ed
Code:
If that is the case, then we have to accept the encounter/vision of Joseph Smith as being true also. He stated he saw Christ Jesus and God himself. How do you then disprove his story? If you say by scripture, then the accounts of Mother Mary would be incorrect also since there is no documentation of the people encountering these apparitions of Mary testing the spirits when the encounter happens, as prescribed by Saint John in the book of 1 John. Also, testing of the spirit has to be completed in person by the person encountering the spirit. Asking the question after the fact, with a group of priests, bishops, etc., doesn't meet the immediate requirement. Bottom line, a person's position doesn't excuse him or her from this testing requirement as prescribed by Saint John. Are you kidding me, you don't think Lucifer couldn't come in the form of our Holy Mother Mary to deceive? This is the master of lies and the brightest fallen angel God had. I don't down play our Holy Mother Mary's role in God's great act of grace for us who don't deserve to be saved, but I don't over emphasize it either. When I see processions carrying statues of Mother Mary and I don't see a Statue of my Savior Jesus Christ, it bothers me. Does everyone get my specific point?Ed
T
thetruth0flife
Guest
This is my chance to reveal more truths. If someone has a crown on their head what is that referencing? That someone is a King or Queen of something. Am I correct? The Bible starts with a Man, Woman and Serpent and it ends with a Man, Woman and serpent.
I am not adding and labeling out of context. It’s more like individuals of your religion or sectarians that add, change or even cut books to the Bible as to hide the truth.
*15 The Lord God placed the man in the Garden of Eden to tend and watch over it. *
Gensis 2:15
- 22 Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib, and he brought her to the man.*
- 1 The serpent was the shrewdest of all the wild animals the Lord God had made.*
Now comes the Man, Woman and serpent again in the end.
- I saw a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon beneath her feet, and a crown of twelve stars on her head*.
5 She gave birth to a son who was to rule all nations with an iron rod
Revelation 12:5
9 This great dragon—the ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, the one deceiving the whole world—was thrown down to the earth with all his angels.
Revelation 12:9
The crown on her head can only mean that she is the Queen of Heaven. Throughout the Bible Jesus always called her mother, woman. Since the begenning she was foretold to come and battle against the snake or devil.
15 And I will cause hostility between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and her offspring.
She will strike* your head,
and you will strike her heel.”**
Genesis 3:15
26 When Jesus saw his mother standing there beside the disciple he loved, he said to her, “Dear woman, here is your son.”
John 19:26
13 When the dragon realized that he had been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child
Revelation 12:13
I think it is more than obious that the woman that the Dragon tried to pursue is Mary. Mary is the only woman that the Bible mentions in which she gives birth to a child. The Bible also mentions from the begenning that there would be war amoung the woman and the serpent. Jesus called his mother by using the name, ‘woman.’ When Mary was on the cross Jesus told John that Mary was his mother. I’ve read other readings upon that scripture but they only try to symbolize her or change who she really is. The new man was Jesus, the new woman was Mary but we still have the same serpent.*
G
GaryTaylor
Guest
Why would she come back? It seems clearly explained by her.I guess I would have to ask why would Holy Mother Mary (a human being who has passed on and is with our Father) come back at all? For one, it isn’t biblical on her returning and conveying messages (however, it is biblical that lying spirits exist to deceive). Also, why would Mary have to plead the blood of Christ to remind God our Father of this sacrifice? Did God forget? Highly unlikely since it was him in the flesh. In all these accounts did the witnesses test the spirits as dictated in 1 John? The excuse, “Why would we have to test, if it was our Holy Mother Mary”, answer because the bible says so. You don’t think priests throughout time haven’t been deceived by Lucifer and his fallen angels?
May God Bless!Code:If that is the case, then we have to accept the encounter/vision of Joseph Smith as being true also. He stated he saw Christ Jesus and God himself. How do you then disprove his story? If you say by scripture, then the accounts of Mother Mary would be incorrect also since there is no documentation of the people encountering these apparitions of Mary testing the spirits when the encounter happens, as prescribed by Saint John in the book of 1 John. Also, testing of the spirit has to be completed in person by the person encountering the spirit. Asking the question after the fact, with a group of priests, bishops, etc., doesn't meet the immediate requirement. Bottom line, a person's position doesn't excuse him or her from this testing requirement as prescribed by Saint John. Are you kidding me, you don't think Lucifer couldn't come in the form of our Holy Mother Mary to deceive? This is the master of lies and the brightest fallen angel God had. I don't down play our Holy Mother Mary's role in God's great act of grace for us who don't deserve to be saved, but I don't over emphasize it either. When I see processions carrying statues of Mother Mary and I don't see a Statue of my Savior Jesus Christ, it bothers me. Does everyone get my specific point?
Ed
How do you know its not Biblical? Revelations 12:1 seems to explain her pretty clearly and it also seems to correspond pretty clearly to Fatima. And it also arrives at the Assumption of Mary through the Catholic Church. But you in all your infinate wisdom know better?
Why would Mary plead the Blood of Christ? I don’t see her pleading anything. I see grave warnings about the Chastisement, Sin, falling away from Christ/God, well you read the message, or did you bother? Why would she come? To save Souls just as she mentioned, isn’t that a Blessing that we should be be gratefull for? Mary is the new Ark of the Covenant.
Its pretty clear God held Mary in high regard in the Bible.
Who else is full of Grace?
Hail thou that art Highly Favored , the Lord is with thee,
Blessed art thou amoung woman.
Fear not Mary, thou has found Favor with God.
You are the splendid boast of our People.
My Soul doth Magnify the Lord.
Now who would deny her position? Especially since this is how she was perceived “before” she bore Christ. How would you imagine she is looked upon “now” that she completed her responsibility asked of God and reached Heaven? Yea I firmy believe Mary without a doubt holds a place in Heaven unattainable by any other, exept God. I don’t even believe we can fully comprehend the position she has attained. The Angels say Hail Mary!
Would evil come to humans as Jesus Christ and God or as Mary leading souls to God? Does that even make any sense?
Many, Many of apparitions were tested as the Bible described and as you mention. Apparently you simply have no interest in actually studying them. Only deny that they are in fact not true without research?
Do I think Lucifer would come as the Blessed Mother to deceive and send followers to Christ/God? Of course not it makes no sense at all. None.
Joe Smith and his vision, he heard alone which no-one witnesed or whatever, Has nothing to do with a apparition witnessed by thousands with miracles of healing to confirm, that were the Blessed Mother.
Talking about statues, and why one of Christ isn’t there, and Mary is? No such thing in any Catholic Church. How we arrive at this point sounds like more weak anti catholic rap.
You don’t downplay Marys role? Seems like that all you are doing. That again would be the work of evil. Denial, deceit, and to lead followers away from Mary thus God. And it sounds from your quote here, your pretty impressed with satan.
To conlude when you have a Saint telling you. “Never will anyone who says the Rosary daily ever be lead astray, This is a statement I would sign in my blood” You wouldn’t think she plays a significant role in Heaven?
And the Saints are also mentioned in the Bible.
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