The Rosary - What is Not Understood?

[dronald]

Okay,but let us not forget Jesus is the NEW convenant which is better than the old. My argument against those who hold the Bible as the final authority is simple:

*If the Bible is the final authority then why would Jesus even bother to choose 12 men and give them authority which is clearly written in the Bible? *

I believe Jesus would have been going around and preaching and insisting the Bible is the final authority.

Christianity is a faith of the person: Christ. It does not revolve around and center on the Bible-only, which is a man-made tradition founded by reformers centuries later.

No, this doesn’t work. Jesus would have taught more about praying to His mother and the other Saints if Catholicism were true. Also, Paul would have mentioned Mary once I would think?

I’m not saying this is true, I’m just pointing out your fallacious reasoning.

 

[dronald]

What Catholic delimma?

I’m a Protestant, and I want to know what kind of bread I should use in the Eucharist; how can I trust the Catholic Church if the EO tells me something different based on their Traditions and interpretation of Scripture?

 

[Nicea325]

I’m not being offensive, I’m saying that the argument that Protestant’s don’t have a trustworthy authority is equal to the Catholic dilemma.

What or which catch-22 with the CC?

 

[Nicea325]

I’m a Protestant, and I want to know what kind of bread I should use in the Eucharist; how can I trust the Catholic Church if the EO tells me something different based on their Traditions and interpretation of Scripture?

Do both ancient churches teach it is the literal body,blood,soul and divinity of our Lord? How is that a contradiction?

 

[wmscott]

I’m a Protestant, and I want to know what kind of bread I should use in the Eucharist; how can I trust the Catholic Church if the EO tells me something different based on their Traditions and interpretation of Scripture?

You know I do not know the answer right off hand I will have to research it. Good Question

 

[pocohombre]

Okay,but let us not forget Jesus is the NEW convenant which is better than the old. My argument against those who hold the Bible as the final authority is simple:

*If the Bible is the final authority then why would Jesus even bother to choose 12 men and give them authority which is clearly written in the Bible? *

I believe Jesus would have been going around and preaching and insisting the Bible is the final authority.

Christianity is a faith of the person: Christ. It does not revolve around and center on the Bible-only, which is a man-made tradition founded by reformers centuries later.

I am to be a disciple. If it was good enough for Jesus to use scripture authoritatively, he the the originator of ALL authority, it should be good for me also. Now Christ is not here as before,nor are the apostles, But we all have their writings and the Holy Spirit and Jesus invisibly. All the body from lay to clergy are subject to them, to the point that they are graced to do so.

 

[Nicea325]

I am to be a disciple. If it was good enough for Jesus to use scripture authoritatively, he the the originator of ALL authority, it should be good for me also. Now Christ is not here as before,nor are the apostles, But we all have their writings and the Holy Spirit and Jesus invisibly. All the body from lay to clergy are subject to them, to the point that they are graced to do so.

Good enough for Jesus? Jesus IS the words of the Bible who Incarnated so you cannot separate Him from His own Words. Again,Jesus never taught: The Bible is the final authority. Chapter and verse where He clearly teaches this belief?

Exactly! So what gives you the idea or belief Jesus did not assign authority to His mystical body (Eph 1:22-23) the church? The Church is an extension of His Incarnation. Christ or the Apostles…again,never once taught or said **written scripture alone **is the final authority…no where!

 

[dronald]

Do both ancient churches teach it is the literal body,blood,soul and divinity of our Lord? How is that a contradiction?

Yes, but based on their interpretation of Scripture and Tradition, you may not partake in their communion with them.

Just because it’s an exception for the RC does not mean it works both ways.

 

[Nicea325]

Yes, but based on their interpretation of Scripture and Tradition, you may not partake in their communion with them.

Just because it’s an exception for the RC does not mean it works both ways.

Aahhhh…not exactly. I am not a canon law lawyer and do not have CC Catechism,but I believe under specific circumstances a Catholic can receive communion. Of course…I do believe the other party has to be willing? I believe the RCC allows the same for an Orthodox. Again…I could be wrong.

 

[adf417]

No, this doesn’t work. Jesus would have taught more about praying to His mother and the other Saints if Catholicism were true. Also, Paul would have mentioned Mary once I would think?

I’m not saying this is true, I’m just pointing out your fallacious reasoning.

dronald how is this not fallacious reasoning based on…? [BIBLEDRB]Jn 21:25[/BIBLEDRB]

Peace!!!

 

[dronald]

Aahhhh…not exactly. I am not a canon law lawyer and do not have CC Catechism,but I believe under specific circumstances a Catholic can receive communion. Of course…I do believe the other party has to be willing? I believe the RCC allows the same for an Orthodox. Again…I could be wrong.

Based on my readings, the Orthodox do not permit Roman Catholics to partake in their communion. Although I could also be wrong.

I suppose we could always discuss what Jesus really meant by “upon this rock.”

My point is, if I need answers from an authority I can’t be sure who to trust when there are even some major differences.

 

[dronald]

dronald how is this not fallacious reasoning based on…? [BIBLEDRB]Jn 21:25[/BIBLEDRB]

Peace!!!

I know, it’s a silly thing to say and I was using it as an example of why it’s not a valid argument from either side.

 

[adf417]

I know, it’s a silly thing to say and I was using it as an example of why it’s not a valid argument from either side.

Which is why tradition is as important as the bible, right?

Peace!!!

 

[dronald]

Which is why tradition is as important as the bible, right?

Peace!!!

Your tradition or the Orthodox who have the same roots but different interpretations of Scripture and history?

Jesus had some things to say about tradition in Scripture.

 

[Nicea325]

Your tradition or the Orthodox who have the same roots but different interpretations of Scripture and history?

Jesus had some things to say about tradition in Scripture.

The ones which contradicted God. Are you implying CC/EO Traditions are in conflict with God?

 

[wmscott]

I’m a Protestant, and I want to know what kind of bread I should use in the Eucharist; how can I trust the Catholic Church if the EO tells me something different based on their Traditions and interpretation of Scripture?

In reading the CCC with regards to your question as to the type of bread used for the Eucharist I am assuming that it is unleavened bread.

From the CCC

Part 2, Section 2, Chapter 1, Article 3, SubSection 3, Heading 2

*1339 Jesus chose the time of Passover to fulfill what he had announced at Capernaum: giving his disciples his Body and his Blood:

Then came the day of Unleavened Bread, on which the passover lamb had to be sacrificed. So Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, “Go and prepare the passover meal for us, that we may eat it…” They went … and prepared the passover. And when the hour came, he sat at table, and the apostles with him. And he said to them, “I have earnestly desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer; for I tell you I shall not eat it again until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.”… And he took bread, and when he had given thanks he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” And likewise the cup after supper, saying, “This cup which is poured out for you is the New Covenant in my blood.”*

As for the Eastern Orthodox Churches, if they use something other than unleavened bread I am sure they have their reasons. If they use regular bread what does it matter, As Nicea325 states “Do both ancient churches teach it is the literal body, blood ,soul and divinity of our Lord? How is that a contradiction”

The point is that it becomes literal the body, blood ,soul and divinity of our Lord.

 

[adf417]

Your tradition or the Orthodox who have the same roots but different interpretations of Scripture and history?

Jesus had some things to say about tradition in Scripture.

Narrowing it down to 2 is a good start.

Peace!!!

 

[wmscott]

Your tradition or the Orthodox who have the same roots but different interpretations of Scripture and history?

Jesus had some things to say about tradition in Scripture.

Yes, and they dealt with man made traditions, such as ritual washing of hands and such, not Sacred Tradition.

 

[Nicea325]

Based on my readings, the Orthodox do not permit Roman Catholics to partake in their communion. Although I could also be wrong.

I suppose we could always discuss what Jesus really meant by “upon this rock.”

My point is, if I need answers from an authority I can’t be sure who to trust when there are even some major differences.

I cannot honestly say I am correct and you are incorrect or that I am incorrect and you are correct. Like I said, I would need to look it up what the CC teaches. But I do believe the CC does allow Orthodox under special circumstances. But do not take my word for it.

Maybe an Orthodox brother or sister familiar with their laws could assist us?

 

[dronald]

Yes, and they dealt with man made traditions, such as ritual washing of hands and such, not Sacred Tradition.

You know these were Pharisees right? They honestly thought their traditions were true to God’s nature.

How do we judge if a tradition is man made apart from Scripture?