Absolutely. However, I vehemently oppose sending missionaries to Christian people in order to convert them to their own church bodies. Such behavior is opposed to the will of Christ. Therefore, I would say that such Protestant missionaries are ignorant (as well as Catholics or Orthodox, where such exist).
i agree with you in as much as i understand you, considering this.Absolutely. However, I vehemently oppose sending missionaries to Christian people in order to convert them to their own church bodies. Such behavior is opposed to the will of Christ. Therefore, I would say that such Protestant missionaries are ignorant (as well as Catholics or Orthodox, where such exist).
He did, the Blessed Mother. God Bless, Memawi thought pope francis consecrated vatican to someone?
See, your argument just doesn’t work. The reason that praying for the conversion of Russia gained so much prominence and attention was due to the historical realities Russia underwent. The RCC saw an opportunity in an atheistic Russia that wasn’t available in an Orthodox Greece that had maintained its religious foundation. And when the RCC went into Russia they sought not to help Russians return to the faith of their faithers, but to draw them into communion with the RCC. Frankly, though, if the RCC really believes it is the true church it should be praying for the conversion of other churches, including the Orthodox Church.But if we were praying for the conversion of the Russian Orthodox it would be because of your religious beliefs, not because you experienced the nightmare of communist Russia. Christians are oppressed all over the world. We don’t pray for the conversion of Christians in China. We don’t pray for the conversion of Christians in north Africa and the Middle East. We pray for an end to the oppression they are experiencing. This is exactly why we were praying for you. So my point remains. If we were praying for the conversion of the Russian Orthodox then we would also have to pray for the conversion of all other Orthodox Christians because you share the same doctrines. That is simply not what we are doing.
Perhaps I did, and if so it only strengthens my conviction that the RCC is making compromises where it shouldn’t.You heard wrong. When St. Pope John Paul, II sent a greeting to the Ecumenical Patriarch in 1991 he referred to the Catholic and Orthodox Churches as two lungs in one body. This is not the only time he made this analogy when speaking of Catholic and Orthodox.
I am all for healing wounds, but I am against compromising the Orthodox faith. The differences are just as stark as I make them out to be and more. I hear Roman Catholics make this claim all the time, and I don’t know what they are basing it on. The deeper one really digs into the history and theology of the RCC and the EOC the more differences arise. Some of these might be reconcilable, but many are not, as has been aptly demonstrated by Orthodox thinkers like Romanides, Lossky, and Zizioulas.Are you not at all interested in healing the wounds of Christ’s Church? The differences between us are not as stark as you make them out to be. Regardless, we should both be working toward unity, not holding our ground with a “more hard-lined position”. I am not at all advocating a “watering down” of the truth. I am talking about finding common ground which is plentiful between Catholic and Orthodox traditions.
twf said that it was to st michael, whoever it is , he did consecrate to someone, which can be used to refute the begin with your home argument. God, bless MemawHe did, the Blessed Mother. God Bless, Memaw
That’s certainly one script from a Russian Orthodox perspective, but it is not a fair assessment of Catholic activity in the former Soviet Union before the fall of communism or after.The RCC saw an opportunity in an atheistic Russia that wasn’t available in an Orthodox Greece that had maintained its religious foundation. And when the RCC went into Russia they sought not to help Russians return to the faith of their faithers, but to draw them into communion with the RCC. Frankly, though, if the RCC really believes it is the true church it should be praying for the conversion of other churches, including the Orthodox Church.
precisely.But if we were praying for the conversion of the Russian Orthodox it would be because of your religious beliefs, not because you experienced the nightmare of communist Russia. Christians are oppressed all over the world. We don’t pray for the conversion of Christians in China. We don’t pray for the conversion of Christians in north Africa and the Middle East. We pray for an end to the oppression they are experiencing. This is exactly why we were praying for you.
Peace.
Steve
To ‘leave it’ would be a very foolish thing to do! The Church doesn’t tell us to “Leave it”, she tells us it is WORTHY of Belief!!! She is just telling us it is not on the same level as Public Revelation of which we are obligated to believe. Sad to say to many have the mindset to ignore Fatima. Maybe that’s why our world is in the sad shape it’s in today. We DIDN’T listen to Our Lady as all the Popes since then have impressed us to do!!! God Bless, MemawMany Catholics regard the Fatima story with a degree of skepticism.
It falls under the rubric of “private revelation”, which means Catholics are free to take it or leave it.
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The Revelation ended with the death of the last Apostle.To ‘leave it’ would be a very foolish thing to do! The Church doesn’t tell us to “Leave it”, she tells us it is WORTHY of Belief!!!
That may be true of Public Revelation, but many are not even close to understanding that. Why do you think the Church has promoted so many “devotions”?? To help us become closer to Our Lord and the teachings of HIS Church. Your short changing yourself if you can’t see that. God Bless, MemawThe Revelation ended with the death of the last Apostle.
Everything one needs for salvation is in that Revelation.
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I see no real opportunity for a fruitful discussion. I am sorry that you feel so offended by our Church. What I do know is that when I was praying for the conversion of Russia it was for an end to communism and atheism in that country. I never prayed for an end to the Russian Orthodox Church. Maybe I had been misled.See, your argument just doesn’t work. The reason that praying for the conversion of Russia gained so much prominence and attention was due to the historical realities Russia underwent. The RCC saw an opportunity in an atheistic Russia that wasn’t available in an Orthodox Greece that had maintained its religious foundation. And when the RCC went into Russia they sought not to help Russians return to the faith of their faithers, but to draw them into communion with the RCC. Frankly, though, if the RCC really believes it is the true church it should be praying for the conversion of other churches, including the Orthodox Church.
Moribund church attendance rates are *not *endemic to Russia: the UK, France, and Spain have equally unhealthy church attendance rates despite a large percentage of people still being at the very least baptized members of the Anglican Church and Catholic Church respectively. Likewise, even the Friday mosque attendance rates were estimated at I believe 2% in the Islamic Republic of Iran.I see no real opportunity for a fruitful discussion. I am sorry that you feel so offended by our Church. What I do know is that when I was praying for the conversion of Russia it was for an end to communism and atheism in that country. I never prayed for an end to the Russian Orthodox Church. Maybe I had been misled.
It isn’t as if the majority of Russians are Orthodox anyway. From what I have seen only about 2-3% of the population attends the Divine Liturgy in Russian Orthodox parishes. Lots of room for conversion.
God bless.
One of the steps taken in an official examination of an alleged apparition or private revelation is a comparison with the body of the Revelation for additions or contradictions. If there are any, the apparition or private revelation is rejected outright.memaw and rob arnsen,
has any private revelation taught, apart from prophecies, anything not referenced in the scripture?
Western Rite Orthodox parishes are already set up in many places in the United States. I am not sure whether they are aimed at lazy Catholics or some other target.So does that give me a right to set up a Mozarabic Rite Western Orthodox parish in Seville in the hopes of getting lazy Catholics to join the Orthodox Church?
Every APPROVED private apparition has been thoroughly investigated by the Catholic Church to make sure there is NOTHING contrary to Catholic teaching. Pope Pius the XII said that “Fatima is the reaffirmation of the Gospels.” It IS “Worthy of Belief!!” God Bless, Memawmemaw and rob arnsen,
has any private revelation taught, apart from prophecies, anything not referenced in the scripture?
The “squabbles” do not make the approved Apparition any less important! God sent his Mother to us for a very serious reason and to ignore that or brush it aside as not important is very unwise. I am afraid that’s is what so many are doing. Anytime someone goes against the “teaching of the Church”, ( the Pope), that’s the one we should not listen to. God Bless, MemawOne of the steps taken in an official examination of an alleged apparition or private revelation is a comparison with the body of the Revelation for additions or contradictions. If there are any, the apparition or private revelation is rejected outright.
What this effectively means is that we already have all the Revelation we need to attain salvation, which renders apparitions and private revelations superfluous to a Catholic’s spiritual life. There is some risk in cults associated with apparitions and private revelations of giving excessive attention to them in derogation of the Church’s mission and teaching.
The unseemly squabbles over whether the Holy Father fulfilled the conditions of Fatima would be an example of how this can detract from the Christian community.
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The Church does not require any Catholic to accept that God sent his Mother to us in any particular post-apostolic apparition.God sent his Mother to us for a very serious reason and to ignore that or brush it aside as not important is very unwise.
Every APPROVED private apparition has been thoroughly investigated by the Catholic Church to make sure there is NOTHING contrary to Catholic teaching. Pope Pius the XII said that “Fatima is the reaffirmation of the Gospels.” It IS “Worthy of Belief!!” God Bless, Memaw
what i am saying is,prophecies apart,One of the steps taken in an official examination of an alleged apparition or private revelation is a comparison with the body of the Revelation for additions or contradictions. If there are any, the apparition or private revelation is rejected outright.
What this effectively means is that we already have all the Revelation we need to attain salvation, which renders apparitions and private revelations superfluous to a Catholic’s spiritual life. There is some risk in cults associated with apparitions and private revelations of giving excessive attention to them in derogation of the Church’s mission and teaching.
The unseemly squabbles over whether the Holy Father fulfilled the conditions of Fatima would be an example of how this can detract from the Christian community.
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My point was not that the Orthodox are poor Church attendees. Many, many Catholics are abysmal in this regard, right here in the USA and throughout the world. My point was that it has never had anything to do with converting the Russian Orthodox.Moribund church attendance rates are *not *endemic to Russia: the UK, France, and Spain have equally unhealthy church attendance rates despite a large percentage of people still being at the very least baptized members of the Anglican Church and Catholic Church respectively. Likewise, even the Friday mosque attendance rates were estimated at I believe 2% in the Islamic Republic of Iran.
So does that give me a right to set up a Mozarabic Rite Western Orthodox parish in Seville in the hopes of getting lazy Catholics to join the Orthodox Church? I’m going to bet big money you personally and many others would* not* be too thrilled with that.
I find it a bit odd when I criticized Protestant missionaries lugging their egos to Greece in order to convert the primitive masses to whatever they think the One True Church is that I found a lot of Catholics hear seconding my frustration and agreeing with me, and yet here in this thread we have people saying “well hey, the Russians weren’t going to church: the Orthodox Church certainly doesn’t have a right to them!” This is certainly a case of doublespeak if you ask me.