The Russiain Orthodox Church and Fatima

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7_Sorrows

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Maybe this has been discussed before, but how does Russia and the Russian Orthodox church feel about the Fatima prophecy and the consecration of Russia?

If anyone knows I would appreciate a reply.
 
It would be fair to say that the Russian government and the Russian Orthodox Church, very closely connected, have always been very hostile to the Fatima message.
 
While I believe the Orthodox hold Mary in high esteem and always have done, their antipathy to the Catholic Church means they view Catholic apparitions of Mary with unease.

I suspect they resent the idea of a Catholic “consecration of Russia to Mary” as a patronising insult to the Russian Orthodox Church.

It would be as though the Russian Orthodox Church claimed to have had an apparition of Mary in some remote village in Western Siberia, with three nearly illiterate Nenets kids as the heroes of the drama, with a message that the USA must be consecrated to Mary, and with two of the kids pegging out two years later from the Ebola Virus.

You could imagine the response of the Vatican and the US government to that message.

Frankly, when it comes to being the One Body of Christ, Christendom is one almighty mess. No wonder God’s allowing Islam to challenge us. I think He’s gotten to the point of disgust at our continued disobedience and endless divisions.
 
Bob_Crowley said:
While I believe the Orthodox hold Mary in high esteem and always have done, their antipathy to the Catholic Church means they view Catholic apparitions of Mary with unease.

I suspect they resent the idea of a Catholic “consecration of Russia to Mary” as a patronising insult to the Russian Orthodox Church.

It would be as though the Russian Orthodox Church claimed to have had an apparition of Mary in some remote village in Western Siberia, with three nearly illiterate Nenets kids as the heroes of the drama, with a message that the USA must be consecrated to Mary, and with two of the kids pegging out two years later from the Ebola Virus.

You could imagine the response of the Vatican and the US government to that message.

Frankly, when it comes to being the One Body of Christ, Christendom is one almighty mess. No wonder God’s allowing Islam to challenge us. I think He’s gotten to the point of disgust at our continued disobedience and endless divisions.
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I don’t think we should try to speak for the Russian Orthodox Church in this matter or try to turn it around. Catholics love our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ no matter who the are or where they are from and pray to help them. That’s what Our Lady asked for at Fatima and that was coming from God. Our Lady said Russia would spread her errors throughout the world and that Russia has surly done!. She said to pray the Rosary every day, so that’s what we should do. And yes, PRAY for our own Country God Bless, Memaw
 
PaulfromIowa said:
It would be fair to say that the Russian government and the Russian Orthodox Church, very closely connected, have always been very hostile to the Fatima message.
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Most of them were never even allowed to hear of it. God Bless, Memaw
 
7_Sorrows said:
Maybe this has been discussed before, but how does Russia and the Russian Orthodox church feel about the Fatima prophecy and the consecration of Russia?

If anyone knows I would appreciate a reply.
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They find it offensive.
 
It is to my knowledge that the Russian Orthodox does not have a position on the apparition at Fatima. I do however know some Russian Orthodox who believe in the apparition at Fatima; I also know Russian Orthodox who don’t believe in it. I think there is a Russian Orthodox icon of Our Lady of Fatima believe it or not.
 
Thank you all for your replies and links provided.

Russia was communist for so long and I was not sure what religious history Russia had before Lenin and Stalin

What memaw said might be true-they tried to keep it a secret from the people. However, since the USSR no longer exists and the birth of the information age they probably have heard of it by now.
 
Bob_Crowley said:
It would be as though the Russian Orthodox Church claimed to have had an apparition of Mary in some remote village in Western Siberia, with three nearly illiterate Nenets kids as the heroes of the drama, with a message that the USA must be consecrated to Mary, and with two of the kids pegging out two years later from the Ebola Virus.

You could imagine the response of the Vatican and the US government to that message.
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“Bishops consecrate U.S. to Sorrowful, Immaculate Heart of Mary”

catholic.org/diocese/diocese_story.php?id=22060

I personally think it’s a good thing to have the USA consecrated to Mary … and if someone would like to repeat that … even better.

:amen:
 
7_Sorrows said:
Russia was communist for so long and I was not sure what religious history Russia had before Lenin and Stalin
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We just passed the 1025th anniversary of the Baptism of Rus but Christianity arrived hundreds of years before that. Russia was a bulwark of Orthodox Christianity for 900 years before the communist took over. The communist tried to destroy the Church but couldn’t. In fact by some estimates there were more Christian martyrs under Stalin than in the rest of the history of Christianity combined.

Then to add insult to injury after communism finally fell, and after probably the worst persecutions in the history of Christianity, the Catholics and Protestants flooded the country with missionaries trying to convert people to their faith. Needless to say that wasn’t received very well by the Russian Church and understandably so. So yes Fatima for any Russian who pays attention is extremely patronizing.

So before anyone makes judgments about how nationalistic the Russians seem or how wrapped up in their national identity Orthodoxy is I think it’s important that we all understand the history. 🙂
 
Bob_Crowley said:
While I believe the Orthodox hold Mary in high esteem and always have done, their antipathy to the Catholic Church means they view Catholic apparitions of Mary with unease.

I suspect they resent the idea of a Catholic “consecration of Russia to Mary” as a patronising insult to the Russian Orthodox Church.

It would be as though the Russian Orthodox Church claimed to have had an apparition of Mary in some remote village in Western Siberia, with three nearly illiterate Nenets kids as the heroes of the drama, with a message that the USA must be consecrated to Mary, and with two of the kids pegging out two years later from the Ebola Virus.

You could imagine the response of the Vatican and the US government to that message.

Frankly, when it comes to being the One Body of Christ, Christendom is one almighty mess. No wonder God’s allowing Islam to challenge us. I think He’s gotten to the point of disgust at our continued disobedience and endless divisions.
Click to expand...
I think a more apt analogy would be the idea that we should consecrate Italy and Vatican City to Mary and pray for the conversion of the Pope. 😉
 
Seraphim73 said:
I think a more apt analogy would be the idea that we should consecrate Italy and Vatican City to Mary and pray for the conversion of the Pope. 😉
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Spoken like a true orthodox! Lol!

I know the orthodox church has a long history. I wasn’t sure if there were catholic churches in russia before communism or only orthodox.
It was just a thought that occurred to me the other day.
Then I remembered fatima so I was curious.
 
TrueChurch said:
It is to my knowledge that the Russian Orthodox does not have a position on the apparition at Fatima. I do however know some Russian Orthodox who believe in the apparition at Fatima; I also know Russian Orthodox who don’t believe in it. I think there is a Russian Orthodox icon of Our Lady of Fatima believe it or not.
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Interesting.
 
7_Sorrows said:
Spoken like a true orthodox! Lol!

I know the orthodox church has a long history. I wasn’t sure if there were catholic churches in russia before communism or only orthodox.
It was just a thought that occurred to me the other day.
Then I remembered fatima so I was curious.
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Yes there was and still are. There is a small Latin Catholic community in Russia. They of course were heavily persecuted as well along with Catholics in Ukraine, Poland and elsewhere.
 
Seraphim73 said:
I think a more apt analogy would be the idea that we should consecrate Italy and Vatican City to Mary and pray for the conversion of the Pope. 😉
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This seems to me to be selective reasoning from a defensive posture. I don’t think Mary intended, nor does anyone that I know who was praying for the conversion of Russia pray to convert the Russian Orthodox. The prayers were for the conversion of the atheistic communist state. I know that was the case when I was praying for the conversion of Russia. If the conversion was to happen through the Russian Orthodox Church, great. There is no reason for anyone to walk around with a chip on their shoulder. The Catholic Church is not out to get the Orthodox. 🙂

Peace.

Steve
 
SteveVH said:
This seems to me to be selective reasoning from a defensive posture. I don’t think Mary intended, nor does anyone that I know who was praying for the conversion of Russia pray to convert the Russian Orthodox. The prayers were for the conversion of the atheistic communist state. I know that was the case when I was praying for the conversion of Russia. If the conversion was to happen through the Russian Orthodox Church, great. There is no reason for anyone to walk around with a chip on their shoulder. The Catholic Church is not out to get the Orthodox. 🙂

Peace.

Steve
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If Italy had spent decades under communist oppression and had millions upon millions of Catholics in the country martyred you might be a little defensive too. Check out this magazine cover from the early 90’s. It’s from an issue of 30 Days magazine, a Catholic publication.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

If you can’t make out the cover it’s a picture of the pope leading an army of priests and religious to realize their dream, to “conquer Holy Mother Russia”! And that’s exactly how the Orthodox felt when Catholic and Protestant missionaries flooded the country after the fall of communism. So whether you’re “out to get” us or not that’s certainly the impression the Russians got and it persists to this day and talk of Fatima and the conversion of Russia doesn’t help that impression. 👍
 
Seraphim73 said:
If Italy had spent decades under communist oppression and had millions upon millions of Catholics in the country martyred you might be a little defensive too. Check out this magazine cover from the early 90’s. It’s from an issue of 30 Days magazine, a Catholic publication.

http://orthodoxinfo.com/images/readyset.jpg

If you can’t make out the cover it’s a picture of the pope leading an army of priests and religious to realize their dream, to “conquer Holy Mother Russia”! And that’s exactly how the Orthodox felt when Catholic and Protestant missionaries flooded the country after the fall of communism. So whether you’re “out to get” us or not that’s certainly the impression the Russians got and it persists to this day and talk of Fatima and the conversion of Russia doesn’t help that impression. 👍
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It was the communists that were intended to be conquered though, not the Russian Orthodox Church. In fact, I remember as a child praying for the Russian Orthodox for the simple reason that the Church was under such extreme oppression from the communists. We’re on your side, okay?
 
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