Apparently not enough. I did a lot of study on Catholicism, as that is what the Church requires of those looking to convert. I am not going to claim that I know more about it than you, but I will say that I looked at it with an open mind but also a skeptical eye. I am still learning my faith, as I hope I never stop learning. You obviously took a different tack when you decided you would rather join Islam than actually learn about (apostolic) Christianity. I won’t hold it against you, but I also won’t entertain the idea that you are being honest or should be listened to in your claims against Christianity when you studied only a little about Christianity before leaving it.Those are your words not mine. I don’t put claim to them. I did study a little about Catholicism on my journey.
What does this even mean? How could they not know their OWN belief as they see it? How nonsensical!
And you know how they felt deep inside how? Are you your own parents? Does Islam make all of its practicioners so sure that they know everything about everyone better than anyone can know themselves and their own feelings? This is frankly getting a little bizarre…
I agree with this bolded section. I want this for your parents, I want this for you, I want this for me, I want this for everyone who dedicates themselves to understanding God.
I think you have misunderstood what I wrote. I claimed that Muhammad adapted some Christian teachings, not necessarily Biblical, as many of the things that Muhammad attributes to Christianity are not Biblically supportable. Also, if there are no faults in the Quran, it would’ve gotten the picture of the doctrines it was supposedly correcting right in the first place. Duh.
What?! Какая ерунда! Who taught you that this is what Christians believe? I have known Baptists, and I have never, ever heard any of them say anything like this. I have never heard ANY Christian of any denomination or sect say anything like this!
That you never show. You have no proofs from Christians themselves, only your extreme distortions of Christian doctrine, the likes of which I have honestly never seen.
You grossly misunderstand the doctrine of the Trinity, as well.
His resurrection is what is victorious. He is victorious over death. As for hell, He is victorious over the Satan and his demons, as well. Christ is ALWAYS victorious, thanks be to God.
And yet according to the Quran he has the need to challenge his creation to write a better book than the Quran? How does that even begin to make sense?Above such things…has no need to prove Himself to His Creations.
Only when they’re in the Bible, apparently.
Or with it…
Who can completely know the Creator? And as for second guessing Him, Islam is the faith that claims His previous revelations in the forms of the Torah and the Bible were corrupted despite the fact that He told us that His Word would stand forever and ever. Either God is telling the truth, in which case the Quran and all its corrective finality is not needed (since the Word is not corrupted, in keeping with what God has promised), or that is one of those “corruptions” that the evil ahl al-kitab stuck into their book, and God’s word is NOT actually eternal, in which case: what is the Quran?
Good. I have answered this many times. The word “trinity” is not used in the Bible, but the concept is supported, outlined, and taught (as when Jesus himself commands his apostles to go forth and baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit).
I did not say that the Quran is perverted, I said that the Quran perverts God’s Word as it is found in the Bible, because it does.
Uh huh. This isn’t entirely subjective or anything! Of course, Christians will also say that the Bible is also sanctioned (but not written!) by God, because that is what we belief. So all this “that’s what their own belief says” business is just an empty string of words. You too are stating your own belief.
You may love and respect your family, but you certainly do not respect Christianity since you obviously have not taken the time to find out what Christians actually believe (something you apparently never learned while you were a Christian).
I am very sorry to hear that.
Ahhh. I am beginning to see a problem here. You knew a very specific form of Protestant Christianity. I am sorry to say that this is not true, apostolic Christianity. It lacks tradition and the fullness of truth.
You knew what it was like to be a certain kind of Protestant Christian and become dissatisfied with the shallowness, subjectivity, and irrelevence of much of what you saw around you. I know what that’s like. I too used to be a Protestant.
No. Two different parts of the Bible, making different points, and you as the reader being unable to grasp the meaning of the later one.
In a way you have in some respect, but I was never Baptist, and I never renounced Christianity because I was fed up with man-made doctrines like sola scriptura.
Well, thank you for sharing your views, but I will not accept Islam.
I will not call you brainwashed, stupid, dumb or similar things. That is not my way of discussing things. I will say that you have some very shall we say unorthodox views of Christianity, especially for someone who claims to have once been Christian, but this does not make you dumb. It makes you a person who is without the truth when it comes to the full nature of God, just like any other non-Christian. I don’t wish anything bad for you. Only good things.
Good. Thank you. It appears that you and I are finally in agreement about something.
He is a Wahabi or Salafi, he is following a deviant or an offshoot of the Sunni sect, Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jamaah.
of course not. She is the mother of the human Jesus who is the Word incarnate.
you want to apply this approach to a book written many prophets and disciples within a large time-span of thousands of years and to different audiences…but we can do the same about the Quran…grammatical mistakes, contradictions, anachronism ecc and the author is supposed to be one and within only 23 years…
This posting sums up the doctrine of the massive majority of the Muslims, namely the People of the Sunna and the Congregation, concerning the pre-existent, pre-eternal [sic], beginningless, and uncreated nature of the Divine Speech Allah Most High has named al-Qur’an, as held by the Salaf al-Salihun and as formulated by the two Masters, Imam Abu al-Hasan al-Ash`ari and Imam Abu Mansur al-Maturidi and their respective schools.
The Trinity is one thing, the Incarnation of the Word is another. Same misunderstanding among all Muslims. Jesus’ second nature, the human nature taken by the eternal and uncreated Logos is the one that died…in other words, the lamp can be broken but the electricity does not die out…it is still there…the second nature does not nullify the first nature.
we do not believe Jesus is the Father and the Holy Spirit.
Muslims believe the prophets are sinless…they make only “mistakes”, not sins…even Adam who willfully disobeyed God turns out to be a “mistake” in Islam.
so why are you telling us the Bible does not mention the Trinity? you either believe it does and hence it is all corrupt starting Genesis, or you believe it doesn’t and we can discuss it. Saying it doesn’t and when proven wrong question its validity is not a sound approach.
it was Allah himself who wrote the Quran or men with faults?
God does give His “permission”.
huh? why do you follow Muhammad’s tradition?
Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, created Adam in His own image with His length of sixty cubits, and as He created him He told him to greet that group, and that was a party of angels sitting there, and listen to the response that they give him, for it would form his greeting and that of his offspring. He then went away and said: Peace be upon you! They (the angels) said: May there be peace upon you and the Mercy of Allah, and they made an addition of" Mercy of Allah". So he who would get into Paradise would get in the form of Adam, his length being sixty cubits, then the people who followed him continued to diminish in size up to this day. (Sahih Muslim, Book 040, Number 6809; cf. Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 74, Number 246)
it suits his majesty to insult his words and claims he does not preserve them nor is serious about them?
you either allow the Bible to speak, not Muhammad, or you don’t…you cannot claim the prophets do not talk about God’s Word and Spirit and when proven wrong claim the Bible is corrupt…in other words, you cannot have the cake and eat…
Did you know that a king’s mother is not always a queen? Is the mother of the president higher than the president? I know that you never said she was part of the Trinity, but the Qur’an said it.
No, 1/3 of God did not die that day. God cannot be divided like a pie. THe human nature of Jesus died, the divine nature did not. THis part of the Trinity is not that hard ot understand for those who want to see.
**those are your words…no God chose men as messengers not angels…if you read through the Quran you can understand why.**
So GOd cannot make sure men don’t mess up his words? What kind of weak god do you worship?Doesn’t really make a difference but I guess that would kinda be a guessing game really since many of the books of the Bible cannot be identified as being totally legit and authenticated by God Himself. How can one know the wisdom of God in the Bible when it isn’t from God Himself but my men who have faults? And ya can’t say the Bible was inspired without the permission from God Himself correct?
And we teach one God. No Catholic beleives that tradition saves. We all beleive that faith in Jesus Christ, Son of God, Second person of the Trinity saves. The Trinity is One God, one is substance, one in Nature. Again, you cannot prove that God wrote the Qur’an. No one ever saw God give him the Book and his signature is not on there. For all we know, it can be a man-made fairy tale. Or something more sinister.
Yes, most definitely. If it is from God, it never changes correct
The Quran was delivered over a period of 23 years yes, but everything was written down during his lifetime, witnessed, recorded and stored.We are not talking about incarnation of the “Word”. We are talking God into Human form as Christians claim. The second nature as I stated before could be blown out. ~in relation to: all out of proportion
ok, but you say that God turned into Human form, yet you pray to Jesus who are you worshiping? The Bible states that the Holy Spirit is Jibril …oh and also JESUS. Which is the truth?
hmmmm a mistake, disobedience is not a mistake. He was not considered to be a Messenger of God (was not given a book like the 5 main books handed down to the messengers) Sure, mistakes happen, but when Allah chooses a man to be His example, He would not choose someone who sins…in the messenger’s right, ONCE A MESSENGER, he is sinless.
“The Church” teaches the trinity. Jesus teaches the oneness of God. No where throughout the entire Bible, Your Bible did Jesus ever claim to be God. and the words I am cannot apply lol. Something so strict of a doctrine as the Trinity, you would think Jesus would be blastin it all over the New Testament…or even yet, from the beginnin of the Old Testament…but it was “Paul’s” Doctrine, Paul’s Gospel and all the “According to’s” that have been placed and people have misconstrued them into what they wish…since no authorship by God has been given.
The words of God are kept. You think the book will just APPEAR? You think that Messengers do not have the ability to decipher right from wrong? And most of all, you must not underestimate the power of God.
Ok, now, you are quoting the Bible with no proof that it is authentic. This is what I am on about. Sure, there are beautiful words in it, beautiful words from prophets of God(always say beautiful things), but you cannot sit there and tell me that they are 100% of what Isiah has said and we already know that Matthew didn’t write the book of Matthew, so the words of who? God? then why didn’t He claim it was from Him? See my point? So these words are not authenticated by God Himself but by men who took it upon themselves to document what they wished.
First of all, His sayings are actions are kept separate from the Quran. Second of all, we are obeying Allah when He told us to obey Him and His last messenger.
You must prove your accusation that the Bible is God’s words with His authenticated approval. I am not insulting the words of Allah at all. I would never do that AT ALL. But this is the reason why the last message was sent to mankind. He told us Himself in the Quran. That is why no one can mess with the Quran.
The Bible cannot speak. Words of men. I never said that prophets do not talk about God’s words. I say that what YALL CLAIM as being the word of Prophets, even the prophets have not authenticated it being from them! Nor does Jesus, nor does God Himself.
Something is most definitely wrong when the Bible cannot prove itself and having the stamped approval from God.
.
How can our Creator belittle Himself? lol He isn’t comparable to us…so your question is kinda mute.
the Quran is proof in itself. To have it unchanged is a bargaining tool to just show it’s authenticity to those who are in doubt to its authenticity. Allah doesn’t need to prove Himself to anyone.
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We are talking of the Trinity…and you keep bringing up “Word”. Since when is Word part of the Trinity? The Father, the Word, The Holy Spirit? Where does Jesus because letters to make a word…thought he was human…a human word? come on
Jesus is the word of God in flesh you say…so HE WAS A MESSENGER AND NOT GOD??? This is what Muslims believe…Messengers are sinless, examples of how their Creator wants them to be, living proof of God through HIS MESSAGE.
I didn’t say send, I said IS.
Yes, Adam is a prophet (not a messenger~there are differences between the two)…but I guess the word would be in Arabi, “m’asum” they do not make mistakes in their propogating the Message of Allah. The word sinless in this is applied…but mistakes are of manly nature.
Show me
am up for it But ya gotta show Jesus saying it, not words of men saying it. Straight forward.HUH?? A’authu billeh (God Forbid), did I ever claim Allah has no wisdom???
Allah has a plan and in that plan, it included the last message from Him. Those that messed up in the past, well, they will be dealt with accordingly.
Jesus says what??? Where did the book “According to Jesus” come into play? Find it and we can look at it
I believe in the true message of Jesus. I believe in the last message to mankind. I believe in all the books that God gave to all His messengers. (peace and blessings be upon them all).You think the Quran makes sense? A book that is put together not in chronological order but by the lengths of the suras?No Islam is very complex. Trust me. When you read without bias~ness or hate or criticism intended and read with sincerity, you start to see things more in a clearer fashion than what you usually see. That is what took place. You begin to see things for the first time…words that actually are there that just don’t make sense
**I said, discrepancy, not in belief, but something wrong with words, punctuation, contradictions etc.
**
**Doesn’t really make a difference but I guess that would kinda be a guessing game really since many of the books of the Bible cannot be identified as being totally legit and authenticated by God Himself. How can one know the wisdom of God in the Bible when it isn’t from God Himself but my men who have faults? And ya can’t say the Bible was inspired without the permission from God Himself correct?
The Quran was written by fallible humans as well**.****
**
The "Allah of the Quran made many blunders when dictating his book! LOL
Americanrevert
So it is acceptable to execute someone who decides that Islam is wrong. And yet there is no compulsion in religion according to Islam. This confuses me. Threatening my life, is by definition, compulsion.
So,
It seems to me that you’re the one who keeps trying to force us to accept your beliefs by continuing to “shout” at us!