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Digger71
Guest
Translation: “no! No! NO!”
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siamesecat
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Lol I’m not “wowed”…I dont just take the info fed to me. I decide things as I see them. I’ve posted this before, but I think with women, since sex is more emotional than physical, and a high rate of lesbians seem to have been molested by men, I can see how for many lesbians a discomfort with male intimacy could definately lead to lesbianism. But with men, sex is a very strong, inborn, biological need, so I’m less convinced it’s all environment. Oddly, men molested by men seem to turn gay instead of being uncomfortable around, in many instances (im just generalizing). I think that if molestation of a male occurs around when his sexuality is coming into play (puberty), his brain can be trained to associate arousal with homosexual sex. However, I know far too many people who have not been molested, lacked a father figure, and who all have straight sibilings, that seem to just always be effeminate. That’s why I still believe in most or many instances it’s something else besides environment, especially in men who are more ‘hard wired’. Do I agree with you that environment and molestation can cause it? Yes. Do I agree with you that it’s always this? No. I understand why you don’t believe it’s genetic…but there’s SOMETHING. Also, the fact that many of these kids have a naturally effeminate personality suggests something “different” about their makeup too. ( I do agree about the nailpolish not being a good idea) The whole issue is interesting, complex, and certainly not black and white.
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MikeinSD
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SSA is the christian way of saying “colored”
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setter
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The whole issue of the etiology of SSA is certainly a complex and multi-faceted syndrome. I certainly do not rule out that genetics, as in some variable of genetic predispostion, may play a part in why some individuals are more suspectible to developing SSA as a dis-ordered sexual desire and a symptom of an underlying psychological disorder.
I will point out the obvious of those in the gay agenda/activist camp: It is paramount to their agenda that the primary, defining cause for SSA in at least a significant percentage of those so afflicted with SSA, be scientifically established as due to genetic predisposition. These folks will always direct the argument around this central/core issue and argue to the end of the day with others on this one (as evident in almost every thread where gay agenda folks participate). You (and othes) may want to ponder why this is so, and why without establishing the “gay gene” link of causality their argument ultimately crumbles at the foundation. Notice how any sound scientific studies or critiques presented which dispute the primacy of genetic factor is automatically (and must be characterized) as “biased” by the gay activists folks.
This is why the the integrity of scientific method, and the natural law understanding of order, needs to prevail and the political/personal agendas on both sides of the issue listen to the “objective voice” of valid and sound and verifiable scientific research findings and conclusions.
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wabrams
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???
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setter
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Here is a well cited source article by an astute (see credentials) MD Psychiatrist who explains the misnomers that the media often presents in reporting on the “genetic” cause for homosexual attraction:
leaderu.com/jhs/satinover.html
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Robert_Bay
Guest
**GENERAL NOTICE
The rules of the Catholic Answers Forum, to which you agreed on registering, require that members be respectful of Catholicism, as well as of other faiths. This includes the Church’s teaching on homosexuality and homosexual behavior. Open and frank discussions that are also civil and courteous are encouraged.
The Church’s teaching on this subject can be found in the Catholic Catechism.
**
The rules of the Catholic Answers Forum, to which you agreed on registering, require that members be respectful of Catholicism, as well as of other faiths. This includes the Church’s teaching on homosexuality and homosexual behavior. Open and frank discussions that are also civil and courteous are encouraged.
The Church’s teaching on this subject can be found in the Catholic Catechism.
**
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Crumpy
Guest
I’ve heard the “nature” vs. “nurture” debate my whole life, and it pertains to quite a bit of human behavior, not just to sexual orientation.
The keys to understanding SSA may be discovered by research elsewhere in the field of genetics.
Genetics has its own agenda, that of demonstrating how genes control everything, as far as it can go. But, I’m sure that geneticists know their own limitations.
I’m disappointed that the twins in the CBS article are not identified as being fraternal or genetic twins. That seems to be an oversight.
All I’m saying is that I think there’s a long way to go to explaining SSA, and I think we’re far from the answers.
the answer to that question seems to be related to other kinds of patterned behavior, like addiction to drugs, alcohol, or criminal behavior.
The keys to understanding SSA may be discovered by research elsewhere in the field of genetics.
Genetics has its own agenda, that of demonstrating how genes control everything, as far as it can go. But, I’m sure that geneticists know their own limitations.
I’m disappointed that the twins in the CBS article are not identified as being fraternal or genetic twins. That seems to be an oversight.
All I’m saying is that I think there’s a long way to go to explaining SSA, and I think we’re far from the answers.
the answer to that question seems to be related to other kinds of patterned behavior, like addiction to drugs, alcohol, or criminal behavior.
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Granny_D
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said:
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MikeinSD
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what you are talking about are pathological behaviors. homosexuality is not a pathological behavior.
psych.org/psych_pract/co…dendum83100.cfm
apsa.org/ctf/cgli/reparative_therapy.htm
apa.org/pi/lgbc/publicat…stthefacts.html
clgs.org/5/5_6_1.html
I understand yr faith says homosexuality is a sin. OK. But Catholic teaching does not say homosexuality is a mental illness. Neither does any health or mental health professions. Rather, professional health care associations know homosexuality is a normal varient of human sexuality. Normal means this sexual orientation is found in most cultures through out history. The threat is about the “SCIENCE of sexual orientation” and not the theology.
Sorry, but personal experience requires me to ask – do you have some need/desire/want for some gay guy’s money or property?
Also posted “SSA = colored.” When southern whites said “colored” we refered to African Americans. “Colored” was the polite term for us whites to use. We have lots of less polite names to refer to African Americans. Some christians have lots of less polite terms to refer to gay men. Also the slang provided much amusement when talking about “colored gentlemen” or “colored ladies.” Southerners in the 50s and 60s knew there was no such thing as black “gentlemen” or black “ladies.”
When some christians say SSA they are talking about gay men. The terms are different but the the sentiment is the same. “Colored” was slang for African American. “SSA” is slang for homosexual. African Americans at the time asked that us whites call them “black.” It was a point of pride, even today, that us southern men do not refer to African Americans as “blacks.” That would be giving into them. I guess christians refer to us gay men as SSA for the same reason.
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Granny_D
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Homosexuality, or as some would call it S.S.A is not a sin in and of itself. It is the acting out that orientation via homosexual acts that are sinful according to the Catholic Church. The difference morally between heterosexual sin and homosexual sin, according to the Church… is that acting out one’s heterosexuality within a lawful marriage is not only NOT sinful… but it is a GOOD. There is never a situation in which acting out one’s homosexuality is not sinful… so it is always sinful to act it out.
Regarding the “science” I believe that TRUE SCIENCE and TRUE RELIGION will never be in conflict. However, there are many religions out there and just because it is called “science” doesn’t make it good science.
I don’t live in a bubble… and so homosexuality is part of my environment. I know that for those who try to live out their Catholic Faith… but have S.S.A this is a real struggle…a real cross… this is not something they should be condemned for or shunned or discriminated in any way… and even those who slip they are no different that someone who is heterosexual who has a slip… we must help them, support them… and love them…but not their slip…or sin…(though only God knows the degree of culpability…so even here we cannot judge… focus on our own sins)… It is misplaced charity to not help those who are struggling
The life expectancy is shorter if they enter into this lifestyle. The suffering mental and spiritual…and physical is increased…so we must learn what we can… without judging, but be there when we are called on. If someone does not struggle with this…does not want to heal… from the disorder of acting out their orientation then we should not push them to do so. If they KNOW that we are Catholics and believe in what the Church teaches…and if we show LOVE to all those we know and meet…then if they want our help, they will come to us. We must pray, not just for homosexuals who are living out their orientation, but also for heterosexuals who are living out their sexuality outside of God’s laws. The devastation is just as bad… However, one last point
The difference between Sodom and Gomorrah and Nineveh was that in Nineveh, the heterosexual sins would have created children and babies demand sacrifice… Someone has to change diapers …feed ,…; clothe… etc… this would eventually make some of the inhabitants more likely to think outside of their own needs…(just my opinion… )
Yours for “LIFE” Granny D
Regarding the “science” I believe that TRUE SCIENCE and TRUE RELIGION will never be in conflict. However, there are many religions out there and just because it is called “science” doesn’t make it good science.
I don’t live in a bubble… and so homosexuality is part of my environment. I know that for those who try to live out their Catholic Faith… but have S.S.A this is a real struggle…a real cross… this is not something they should be condemned for or shunned or discriminated in any way… and even those who slip they are no different that someone who is heterosexual who has a slip… we must help them, support them… and love them…but not their slip…or sin…(though only God knows the degree of culpability…so even here we cannot judge… focus on our own sins)… It is misplaced charity to not help those who are struggling
The life expectancy is shorter if they enter into this lifestyle. The suffering mental and spiritual…and physical is increased…so we must learn what we can… without judging, but be there when we are called on. If someone does not struggle with this…does not want to heal… from the disorder of acting out their orientation then we should not push them to do so. If they KNOW that we are Catholics and believe in what the Church teaches…and if we show LOVE to all those we know and meet…then if they want our help, they will come to us. We must pray, not just for homosexuals who are living out their orientation, but also for heterosexuals who are living out their sexuality outside of God’s laws. The devastation is just as bad… However, one last point
The difference between Sodom and Gomorrah and Nineveh was that in Nineveh, the heterosexual sins would have created children and babies demand sacrifice… Someone has to change diapers …feed ,…; clothe… etc… this would eventually make some of the inhabitants more likely to think outside of their own needs…(just my opinion… )
Yours for “LIFE” Granny D
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goofyjim
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I have struggled with SSA as many here know. I refuse though to treat it as an illness. I have a disorder known as schizo affective. That is what I get treated for. I don’t even bother seeking out therapy for the SSA. I don’t need to. There is no requirement to change it, just to live chastely, which I am already doing. I know I’ll get crucified from both sides for this position.
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BlindSheep
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Not me. I admire your strength and integrity. I wish I had the virtue and fortitude you have shown.
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Liberalsaved
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crucifies you
j/k
That is your decision. I am glad you are living the fact that it is not someone else’s decision to make for you. Were it me, I would not make that decision. Isn’t freedom wonderful?
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Jennifer123
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Fr. John Hardon in his studies of homosexuality mentions the importance of father-son bonding at around 18 months. Interesting his mother noticed something “different” at that time.
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goofyjim
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I don’t care for this science stuff. I don’t care what causes same-sex attraction because I find nothing wrong with it as long as it does not lead to the behavior.
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gilliam
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Liberalsaved
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That doesn’t explain anything. Tons of kids whose fathers were never even there at all were not homosexual.
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Granny_D
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I think the father/son bond is crucial…but it is only part of what contributes to SSA. Since everyone has different experiences and different “attitudes”… then it cannot be a cookie cutter list
I can understand why someone who struggles with this doesn’t want to change… It is painful and who needs more pain in their life? The important thing is to remain chaste… and not try to enter a Seminary… because that has what has happened in the past… and while it might have seemed like a safe place to be
it turned out to be a bigger struggle for some priests. They were surrounded by temptation…and under stress… even the best can fall. So if there is a consideration of a Religious Vocation, I think it would be worth the pain… and time…and effort to try for reparative therapy… that’s just my opinion, but I in no way condemn anyone for not wanting to go there. I admire the honesty of discussing this… and just one more thought… What about COURAGE… it is online…and you can remain anonymous
Yours for “LIFE” Granny D
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Jennifer123
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That’s the point if you’ve read the research - it is conflict within a relationship between a son and father or a boy and male authority figures that may have a causal relationship.
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