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Faith5
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Faith5
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After confessing “the holy catholic Church,” the Apostles Creed adds " the communion of saints." In a certain sense this article is
a further explanation of the preceding: “What is the Church if not
the assembly of all the saints?” The communion of saints is the
Church. My wisdom? No, I believe what the Church states on
page 247 of the Catechism. Catholic believe in praying to the
saints because God has already spoken through the Church.
Catholics believe what the Bible states. The Church is the
pillar and foundation of the truth.
Very recently I was listening to a preacher on the radio who believes and constantly preaches to all who listen that the
Bible and the Bible alone is all that’s needed. He has the Bible
memorized better than anyone I know. But guess what, he
believes we’re at the end of the church age and all should get out
of the assembly and tells all listeners to do likewise. Yes, he has
it down! Surprised? Not me!
Without the guidance of the catholic Church you’re on your own.
In other words, if we don’t accept the Church’s teachings we
are open to misinterpretations of Scripture. Sad. However,
anyone has the opportunity to become a member of the
Church.
a further explanation of the preceding: “What is the Church if not
the assembly of all the saints?” The communion of saints is the
Church. My wisdom? No, I believe what the Church states on
page 247 of the Catechism. Catholic believe in praying to the
saints because God has already spoken through the Church.
Catholics believe what the Bible states. The Church is the
pillar and foundation of the truth.
Very recently I was listening to a preacher on the radio who believes and constantly preaches to all who listen that the
Bible and the Bible alone is all that’s needed. He has the Bible
memorized better than anyone I know. But guess what, he
believes we’re at the end of the church age and all should get out
of the assembly and tells all listeners to do likewise. Yes, he has
it down! Surprised? Not me!
Without the guidance of the catholic Church you’re on your own.
In other words, if we don’t accept the Church’s teachings we
are open to misinterpretations of Scripture. Sad. However,
anyone has the opportunity to become a member of the
Church.
S
Semper_Fi_1
Guest
But Mary did bring Him into the Earth the first time and without her no one’s sin would be absolved through the Priest. The priest offers the glorified Christ up to God. That is why Mary is the mother of the Church.
M
MariaG
Guest
No, it is not subjective. Not unless you wish to say that you being led by the Holy Spirit to knowledge is subjective also.
As for asking someone to pray for you who is not declared a saint is not wrong, not unless it is wrong for ANYone to pray for you. We can’t be sure if anyone is truly a Christian, only God can.
No, it says that the church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth.
The household of God, the church of the living God is what? The pillar and bulwark of Truth.
1Tim 3:15 if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.
You would need to name these unbiblical doctrines because I have not found one. The Catholic Church is the most biblical church around, with not one teaching that contradicts scripture.
And Yes, I knew the scriptures quite well. Seven years of daily personal bible study as well as 7 years of weekly adult bible studies, sometimes twice a week of adult bible studies.
I came to the Catholic Church through study of what the Catholic Church actually teaches rather than what people told me the Catholic Church taught.
For example: Catholics worship Mary. No, they worship God alone. If I had more time, I would even show you the exact Catechism number talking of this.
But I would be extremely happy to discuss each and every doctrine you say is unbiblical, one by one in a new thread. I have said it before and will say it again, if there is ever one dogma of the Church that contradicts scripture, I will leave it immediately.
Understanding that my time is very limited and the discussion will not be quick
Respectfully, I disagree. You may disagree with the interpretation of scripture, but I firmly believe that asking saints in heaven to pray for us is completely biblical.
And again, we cannot know for sure if anyone we ask for prayers is a truly a saint, but God does not fault us for asking others for prayers even if we mistakenly ask someone who is not actually a saint, believing they are a saint.
I disagree because of the transfiguration and what was witnessed by the apostles and recorded in scripture. We see that Jesus in fact spoke to those who are “asleep”.
And there is no getting around the plain words of scripture that tell us that God is not the God of the dead but of the living. They are NOT dead, and it is communication with those who are dead, physically and spiritually that is forbidden.
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MariaG
Guest
Sure. This Sunday
Depends on how you wish to look at it. I clearly see it as the saints in heaven being completely aware of what they are doing when presenting the prayers to God, and not just merely messenger boys, unaware of what is in the message.
But even if you wish to interpret Hebrews in that manner, there are other verses that tell us we will be as angels in heaven and there is clearly communication between angels and men.
I respectfully disagree and would contend that you are not dividing scripture correctly and/or the Holy Spirit has not revealed this truth to you as He has to me.
I cannot help it if you chose to believe that those who were taught by the apostles were the false teachers and the warnings of scripture were against those whom the apostles taught rather than those who would teach new teachings 1600 years later.I will pray the Holy Spirit will show you the fallacy of this belief
ALL support the idea of asking saints to pray for each other and asking other saints for prayers. ALL.
God Bless,
Maria
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nilofc
Guest
You cannot have Jesus as your King, if you don’t have Mary as your Queen.
What the protestants are really telling us is “Lord, I love you but I don’t care about your mother and your friends”
Kinda twisted if you ask me.
What the protestants are really telling us is “Lord, I love you but I don’t care about your mother and your friends”
Kinda twisted if you ask me.
C
captaincoog
Guest
Why do Protestants spend so much time and energy trying, without success, to find fault with anything and everything to do with the Catholic Church.
I don’t go around trying to disprove the boogey-man - it doesn’t matter to me at all.
I don’t go around trying to prove the Mormons wrong, and they are far more into error than most mainline protestant groups. So why is it so with Protestants??
Is it because all Protestant groups have their origins in a split with the Catholic Church some time in the past 500 or so years.
It is because this is the only way they can justify their relatively new religion?
If it wasn’t for the Church, they would not have anything else to protest against. Is it a subconcious insecurity that the Church may be right, even if it’s a one in a milion shot?
I see a lot of them here asking questions like the OP, all of which have been done to death over and over again, and soundly proven wrong by the Catholic position.
Just wondering…
I don’t go around trying to disprove the boogey-man - it doesn’t matter to me at all.
I don’t go around trying to prove the Mormons wrong, and they are far more into error than most mainline protestant groups. So why is it so with Protestants??
Is it because all Protestant groups have their origins in a split with the Catholic Church some time in the past 500 or so years.
It is because this is the only way they can justify their relatively new religion?
If it wasn’t for the Church, they would not have anything else to protest against. Is it a subconcious insecurity that the Church may be right, even if it’s a one in a milion shot?
I see a lot of them here asking questions like the OP, all of which have been done to death over and over again, and soundly proven wrong by the Catholic position.
Just wondering…
S
Semper_Fi_1
Guest
Because if there is any shred of truth to the Catholic Church at all; their very existence dooms them (btw the same goes for the Mormons and other apostate “Christian” sects).
J
justasking4
Guest
J
justasking4
Guest
Where does Jesus in the gospels ever refer to Mary as His queen?
Where in the gospels does Jesus even use the title “mother” in regards to Mary?
R
runandsew
Guest
John 19:26-27
When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple there whom he loved, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, your son.” Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother.” And from that hour the disciple took her into his home.
I would recommend that you do a little research on the theological reasons why Jesus used the term “women” in reference to His mother Mary.
R
runandsew
Guest
He doesn’t refer to Mary as his queen in the Gospels
But God inspired the authors of the bible to write the following things:
Since the time of Solomon, there didn’t appear a time that the King of Judah didn’t have the queen mother sitting at his right side.
This is mention many times in scripture.
You read in Revelation that a woman appeared in heaven with a crown, among other things that verse refers to (the church, Israel), one of them is Mary.
So let’s put this together. Jesus is the fulfillment of the King of Judah, the King of Judah had his queen mother at his side of the throne, and Jesus is on his throne in heaven, and the book of Revelation mentions that the mother the child, which we would both agree is referring to Jesus,is in heaven with a crown.
The Disciples asked if they could sit at the right side of Jesus in heaven, but Jesus said that it was up to the father to decide who sat there.
I think Scripture shows who the person that God decided on is.
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lsburk
Guest
Why not attack sola scriptura? That is the premise on which you are basing your argument, is it not? After all, your original question demands that we look at holy scripture as the final authority.
You see, the Church established the Bible. Not the other way around. I know the Church is guided in ALL truth by the Holy Spirit. By definition of the Trinity, God is the Holy Spirit. Therefore God tells me, via the Church, that it is a “Holy and pleasing thing” that I pray to the saints for their intercession on my behalf to God the Father.
M
MariaG
Guest
Because this is a thread about the saints
Although ultimately, all arguments usually come back to rest on this and who has the authority to interpret scriptures, we do try to keep thread subjects separate here in CA forums
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lsburk
Guest
Thank you for stepping in and correcting me. I thought I was on the thread for sacred scripture within the apologetics category. Wait a minute… I am on the correct thread.Because this is a thread about the saints
Although ultimately, all arguments usually come back to rest on this and who has the authority to interpret scriptures, we do try to keep thread subjects separate here in CA forums
The question is not about saints but about final authority of scripture. As far as attacking, I thought I was being charitable with my original reply. After all, if the person cannot substantiate the premise by which they ask the question, the question has no validity. The question that began this thread implies that we should look to sacred scripture alone. That is sola scriptura. I was merely asking the author to prove sola scriptura.
Frankly, I am a bit disappointed that you would step in and correct me when the only thing I am guilty of is using good apologetics fundamentals. I suppose the word “attacking” was too violent or something and you felt the need to put me down. Thank you for the lesson in humility. I shall be more careful next time.
M
MariaG
Guest
Respectfully, this has been a thread about the saints and the scripture addressing prayer to saints. In any such discussion scripture alone and authority of the Church will be touched upon, and ultimately comes back to, but this is not about scripture alone but scripture* and* the saints.
As someone who has participated in this thread from the beginning, I did try to suggest in a polite manner (notice the smilies
) that a discussion of scripture alone is better off on a thread dedicated to it rather than one that is about scripture* and* prayer to the saints, just as the thread title suggests. Scripture about prayer to the saints and scripture alone are two quite different threads.Respectfully,
Maria
H
holy_wood
Guest
Luke 15
If they are aware of our behavior then why not our request for their prayers?
Psalm 103
Otherwise scripture itself sets up a bad example for God’s children to follow.
if the angels and saints experience joy in heaven over our repentance, then they are still connected to us and are aware of our behavior.
If they are aware of our behavior then why not our request for their prayers?
Psalm 103
This Psalmist seemed to believe the Angels could here his petition for them to praise God. If he could commune with them why not us?
Otherwise scripture itself sets up a bad example for God’s children to follow.
M
marymol
Guest
Scripture Readings in Church these days is from Book of Joshua
And came across the interesting character of Rahab …whose family is the only one to escape the destruction of Jericho …
She had heard of the coming of the Israelites and was willing to go along in helping the spies, with what she percieved was the Lord’s plan …
She housed them …protected them from being caught …and in turn , make them swear that they would spare her parents , and all kin folk …
Joshua was faithful …and we are told -’ to this day , they (family of Rahab ) continue in the middle of Israel .’
Our Lord too , faithful to see to it that the image and role of His Mother be not tarnished with pagan distortions of goddess worship and all that it implied ;and swiftly dealt with such ( Ashtarte etc) when it arose in the chosen people’s lives…
Not having followed most of this thread , apologies if all this has already been mentioned …
For any who would doubt the intercessory role of our All Holy Mother …and thus have been in one sense like Rahab’s fallen side ( of unfaithfulness to The Lord’s will , to see His Mother honored - like He does )…may the most powerful intercession of The Mother of our Lord be of help !
Happy Feast of Queenship of our Bl. Mother !
And came across the interesting character of Rahab …whose family is the only one to escape the destruction of Jericho …
She had heard of the coming of the Israelites and was willing to go along in helping the spies, with what she percieved was the Lord’s plan …
She housed them …protected them from being caught …and in turn , make them swear that they would spare her parents , and all kin folk …
Joshua was faithful …and we are told -’ to this day , they (family of Rahab ) continue in the middle of Israel .’
Our Lord too , faithful to see to it that the image and role of His Mother be not tarnished with pagan distortions of goddess worship and all that it implied ;and swiftly dealt with such ( Ashtarte etc) when it arose in the chosen people’s lives…
Not having followed most of this thread , apologies if all this has already been mentioned …
For any who would doubt the intercessory role of our All Holy Mother …and thus have been in one sense like Rahab’s fallen side ( of unfaithfulness to The Lord’s will , to see His Mother honored - like He does )…may the most powerful intercession of The Mother of our Lord be of help !
Happy Feast of Queenship of our Bl. Mother !
J
justasking4
Guest
Since the scriptures are the only inspired-inerrant writings in the church (i’m sure catholics would agree with this) then this is the best starting point for this discussion. After all the catholic church does want its doctrines grounded in the scriptures whenever possible.
Not necessarily so. We can start here then study in history where the pracitice and doctrines appear in church history. Since the scriptures don’t teach such a thing as praying to a saint who has died, we need to look at how it devoloped.
No need to do so its not about that. Even people who do not believe in sola scriptura still believe that the scriptures are inspired-inerrant and do carry authority.
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