The second coming of Christ

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You need to take the passage in its contextit
Luke 12 49 "I have come to cast fire upon the earth, and what will I but that bekindled?
50 But I have a baptism to be baptised with and how distressed I am until it is accomplished !
John 1930 Therefore when Jesus had taken the wine he said "It is accomplished "
And bowing his head, ha gave up his spirit ". This was a cry of triumph.
From Jesus perspective everything was accomplished at the moment of his death.
 
I think that it is clear, even from your own source, that the context of 12:49 is Jesus’ distress about his impending arrest and mistreatment and outright torture.

I am sorry, but, I do not find your cross-reference to John to be helpful here.
 
undead_rat said:
I think that it is clear, even from your own source, that the context of 12:49 is Jesus’ distress about his impending arrest and mistreatment and outright torture.
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There was indeed that natural fear of death which He would have had bec ause of His human nature ; but it was no such vulgar fear which dominated His agony. It was the burden of the mystery of the world’s sin which lay on His heart. In the Garden of Olives Our Lord, in obedience to His Father’s will, took upon Himself the iniquities of all the world and became the sin-bearer. From the’ Life of Christ ’ by Venerable Fulton J. Sheen.
 
The judgment of the sheep and goats (aka last judgment aka white throne judgment) begins shortly after the second coming of Jesus Christ.
 
That would be impossible. Nero died in AD68, John wrote the Revelation between AD69 and AD96 - likely closer to AD96 toward the end of Domitian’s reign. IOW - John can’t prophesy about a coming ‘mark’ (Nero coin)without being a false prophet because those coins were already in circulation!
Nero’s name does not come out to 666 in Greek, which is the language Revelation was written in.
 
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Dudd said:
That would be impossible. Nero died in AD68, John wrote the Revelation between AD69 and AD96 - likely closer to AD96 toward the end of Domitian’s reign. IOW - John can’t prophesy about a coming ‘mark’ (Nero coin)without being a false prophet because those coins were already in circulation!
Nero’s name does not come out to 666 in Greek, which is the language Revelation was written in.
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The source I gave stated:
The so-called “mark of the beast” is presumed by most scholars to allude to the coins of the Roman Empire that bore the image of the emperor.
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Now, Caesar Nero in Greek transliterates into Neron Kesar in Hebrew, which is 666 (from the Hebrew).
 
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The source I gave stated:
The so-called “mark of the beast” is presumed by most scholars to allude to the coins of the Roman Empire that bore the image of the emperor.
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The source you stated is right that several scholars believe the image of Nero is the mark of the beast. Problem is Nero died in AD68, John prophesied about the mark well after AD68 which means that the image of Nero presumably being the mark of the beast makes John a false prophet for prophesying about a coming mark that was already in existence.
 
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Dudd said:
The source I gave stated:
The so-called “mark of the beast” is presumed by most scholars to allude to the coins of the Roman Empire that bore the image of the emperor.
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Well, most it states, not several scholars – allude to it being the Roman Empire – not specifically the man Nero. “The so-called “mark of the beast” is presumed by most scholars to allude to the coins of the Roman Empire that bore the image of the emperor.”

There a multiple theories about the date written. One is that the book was composed between 64 and 70 AD. The second is that it is composed of traditional material and sources combined that predate 70 AD reaching the final form by 96 AD.
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The bottom line with Sacred Scriptures are that the inspired ergo Solid Word of God…
which are the Word and Deeds of Jesus - up to circa 33 AD…
and the events of His Apostles and Followers - afterwards.

One of the reasons why some so-called ‘experts’ purposely place late dates upon the When?
is to undermine Jesus’ Prophecy re: the historically known destruction of:
The Second Temple And Jerusalem Itself - in 70 AD …
 
The bottom line with Sacred Scriptures are that the inspired ergo Solid Word of God…
which are the Word and Deeds of Jesus - up to circa 33 AD…
and the events of His Apostles and Followers - afterwards.

One of the reasons why some so-called ‘experts’ purposely place late dates upon the When?
is to undermine Jesus’ Prophecy re: the historically known destruction of: The Second Temple And Jerusalem Itself - in 70 AD …
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Revelation’s ‘late dates’ are likely a Preterist fabrication, not sure. Truth is the early date was fabricated to fit the AD70 destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. Mathew 24 is more about events leading up to the ‘end or consummation of the age’ than it is the temple. It makes absolutely no sense for John to write a 22 chapter book addressed to believers in Asia Minor between AD65-68, about 'the consummation of the age’ where the book would have NO time - 3 or so years, to be preached, copied, or remotely understood to the generation of the time - during a time of severe persecution.
 
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Dudd said:
the AD 70 destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple
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The Second Temple …

Yes… Israel was no stranger to DisObedience to God…
Worshipping The Golden Calf during Exodus
The Destruction of the First Temple and Exile to Babylon
The not recognizing and sentencing to death of their prophecied Messiah
who, Jesus then Prophecied the destruction of the Second Temple of God…
and the subsequent dispersion…
 
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Dudd said:
Revelation’s ‘late dates’ are likely a Preterist fabrication, not sure. Truth is the early date was fabricated to fit the AD70 destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. Mathew 24 is more about events leading up to the ‘end or consummation of the age’ than it is the temple. It makes absolutely no sense for John to write a 22 chapter book addressed to believers in Asia Minor between AD65-68, about 'the consummation of the age ’ where the book would have NO time - 3 or so years, to be preached, copied, or remotely understood to the generation of the time - during a time of severe persecution.
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I’m confused, what do you mean by a preterist fabrication? The end of the age would be referring to the end of the old covenant.

The reason Matthew 24 was so important to that generation, was because it was about the coming destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem, those inside Jerusalem needed to heed the warnings, because Jerusalem, being the harlot, was about to face judgement for her infidelity.

Is that how you understand it?
 
I’m confused, what do you mean by a preterist fabrication? The end of the age would be referring to the end of the old covenant.

The reason Matthew 24 was so important to that generation, was because it was about the coming destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem, those inside Jerusalem needed to heed the warnings, because Jerusalem, being the harlot, was about to face judgement for her infidelity.

Is that how you understand it?
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There was no such thing as Preterism before the 15th century.

There are things we need to be aware of in Mathew 24. “One important one” is there are three different words for WORLD and three different words for END in the chapter.

Verse 3 uses the word aiōn and its KJV translation, ‘WORLD’, is a peculiar word that’s all different than the other two. It means, "for ever, eternal, an unbroken age, a perpetuity of time. It’s actually accurate to say it means, “the end of for ever.”

Vines Expository Dictionary of NT Words -

Aion is always to be distinguished from kosmos , even where the two seem to express the same idea, e.g., [1Cr 3:18]

AV, “the ends (tele) of the world,” RV, “the ends of the ages,” probably signifies the fulfillment of the Divine purposes concerning the ages in regard to the church [this would come under END, A, No. 1, (c)].

In Hbr 11:3 [lit., “the ages (have been prepared)”] the word indicates all that the successive periods contain; cp. Hbr 1:2

The fig tree illustration proves that the generation Jesus was referring to is the one that sees all the events pass that Jesus mentions between verse 4 and 33…NOT the generation he was talking to!
 
Dudd said:
The fig tree illustration proves that the generation Jesus was referring to is the one that sees all the events pass that Jesus mentions between verse 4 and 33…NOT the generation he was talking to!
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That doesn’t makes sense though. He’s not talking about a future generation when he’s speaking of the Temple being thrown down and the people in Judea fleeing to the mountains.

Logically, if this is speaking about the end of the world, what good is fleeing to the mountains going to do?

This word used in verse 3, αἰών (age), from the Jewish perspective, is referring to the current age they were in, which was the old covenant. The issues surrounding the etymological meaning of the word only become so when you try to interpret the entire chapter as some future generation.

The language of the stars and the Sun and Moon aren’t literal, but are referring to rulers and powers and kingdoms being thrown down.

This generation, witnessed exactly what he said would occur. The Heaven and earth are types which the Temple represented. The Temple was a microcosm of the world and universe. It passed away when it was destroyed in 70 AD, but like He said, His words remained.
 
EndTimes said:
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Crusader13:
The reason Matthew 24 was so important to that generation,
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Matthew’s important to all generations …
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Of course, I’m not implying that the book is only beneficial to those in Jesus’s time. There is great spiritual insight and beliefs that are applicable to everyone, for all time.

The prophecy however is not meant for a future generation which hasn’t appeared yet.
 
I would say: never mind the revelation. We have been told to “watch” and that all flesh shall see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven. I admit that I often scans the clouds in anticipation.
 
EndTimes said:
MasterHaster:
All this “end times” speculation is futile and uninformed.
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No… Christian Scriptures refute that notion

Even some non-Christian Jews in Israel are preparing for the “end of days”

Muslims too… And other non-Abrahamic belief systems as well.
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This is true. Even many Hindus are talking about it.

BTW, here is a website that talks about the end time from the point of view of different religions: http://www.judgmentday.info/
 
openmind77 said:
BTW, here is a website that talks about the end time from the point of view of different religions: http://www.judgmentday.info/
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Christianity
Different Christian denominations have slightly different beliefs regarding the end of the world, but they are all associated with Return of the Christ. Here is the approximate sequence of events that many Christians believe will take place:
  • Rise of the Anti-Christ - has already taken place in the form of the current US President, Donald Trump. The real, main Anti-Christ was of course Hitler.!
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I would definitely avoid that site and that link, the way most people are avoiding Covid19. lol

It’s a futurist website trying to interpret Revelation by thinking it’s talking about events in the 20th and 21st century. The fact they mentioned President Trump is laughable.
 
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