The Shroud of Turin

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An Italian Scientist has made the news on MSNBC.com this morning having been able to reproduce the shroud using tools and items available in the Medival era-- thus prooving in his views that the Shroud of Jesus is a masterful fake.

As a Catholic who has seen the Shroud with my own two eyes, I firmly believe the Shroud housed in Turin to be real. How should we respond to something like this?

Here’s the link on the story. %between%

Anna
 
Theresa Tomeo just talked about this on her program on EWTN. The “research” was funded by an atheist/agnostic group and the presentation was made by an Italian paranormal conference. So, its bunk.
 
Basically my understanding is that the Church has not declared the Shroud to be the burial cloth of Christ, so even if it could be definitively shown not to be there is no loss.

Christ Still Died, Christ Still Rose, and Christ will come again.

Peace
James
 
I love the idea that if someone can reproduce an effect, then for some reason the initial occurrence is somehow “disproven.” A doctor can, with appropriate procedures and medical science, cause a blind person to see again. Does that somehow negate Christ’s healing of the blind man?
 
Timothysis said:
I love the idea that if someone can reproduce an effect, then for some reason the initial occurrence is somehow “disproven.” A doctor can, with appropriate procedures and medical science, cause a blind person to see again. Does that somehow negate Christ’s healing of the blind man?
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That is an absolutly amazing point! I love it! Thank you Timothysis, you’ve made my day! 🙂

Someone else mentioned that the Church hasn’t recognized the Shroud as being authentic. Hasn’t this Shroud been recognized for hundreds of years as being Christ’s burial cloth? I was under the-- perhaps misguided-- impression that this was one of the Chruch’s oldest relics.
 
TamaraSieja said:
That is an absolutly amazing point! I love it! Thank you Timothysis, you’ve made my day! 🙂
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My pleasure!🙂
TamaraSieja said:
Someone else mentioned that the Church hasn’t recognized the Shroud as being authentic. Hasn’t this Shroud been recognized for hundreds of years as being Christ’s burial cloth? I was under the-- perhaps misguided-- impression that this was one of the Chruch’s oldest relics.
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The Church has never “officially” declared the Shroud to be anything more than what it looks like. But remember, the Church is built on faith, not scientific evidence. I, personally, don’t know what to make of the Shroud but I know Christ is present in that little white waffer, even though it may not look like it. Authentic or not, if the Shroud increases a person’s faith and desire for Christ, then that can only be a good thing.
 
I believe its the face of Christ…

The Divine Mercy image is exactly like the shroud.
 
:harp:The shroud has a long history of being venerated. I believe Colin Wilson in his book on the Holy Shroud has some photos of copies of the Shroud of Turin., that were done 400 or more years ago.
repairs have been made to the shroud at various times over the years. They really couldn’t cut out parts of the shroud where say the feet or head are, because they could wind up ruining this image. I say this whole thing is just a load of junk.
People have tried this before. To me this just doesn’t wash at all.
 
My 1st question to hearing this on the radio news this AM was, “does the media routinely make the Shroud of Turin a news item?” When was the last (if ever) a Shroud story was the feature of an hourly news report?
 
There are always going to be people who try to “Disprove” anything to do with our Lord. After reading the article from the website posted, I had to chuckle at some of the things they said.

Garlaschelli reproduced the full-sized shroud using materials and techniques that were available in the Middle Ages.

They placed a linen sheet flat over a volunteer and then rubbed it with a pigment containing traces of acid. (Notice this says a Pigment containing traces of acid. Really now I didin’t know they had chemicals back then. In Jesus time. And truely…this is laughable, after all he claims in his artilce that they used “Techniques” that were available in the MIddle Ages. Jesus didn’t live in the middle ages.)

A mask was used for the face. A mask, was it a mask from the middle ages?? If you look at the two pictures in the artilce you will plainely see the differences.

The pigment was then artificially aged by heating the cloth in an oven and washing it, **(really now what kind of an “Oven and washing it how, by a machine”, Not middle age techniques.) ** a process which removed it from the surface but left a fuzzy, half-tone image similar to that on the Shroud. He believes the pigment on the original Shroud faded naturally over the centuries.

They then added blood stains, burn holes, scorches and water stains to achieve the final effect. (Really now to go to all this extent…)

But the the Real Trick Question is this…He claims he made a Shroud…but will His fake Shroud, stand up to the testing, (that confirms it’s age, ect…) that the Shroud of Turin has? Nope, Notta, Won’t Happen.

You can sum this all up to another Person, just trying to make a Buck $$$$ off of people having faith. (or better yet to cause people who don’t have an faith, to doubt Christanity all together.) There are plenty out there who try to do just that… He’s also just trying to cause “Doubt” in the faithful follwers of Jesus.

and this too shall pass…
 
Stjudeprayforus said:
I believe its the face of Christ…

The Divine Mercy image is exactly like the shroud.
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I believe the same.
I recognize my Shepherd-I know His Face.
I know His Voice.

That’s Him on the Shroud!

Signed,
One of His sheep.
(Hi Jesus, it’s me, Dawn)
 
TamaraSieja said:
An Italian Scientist has made the news on MSNBC.com this morning having been able to reproduce the shroud using tools and items available in the Medival era-- thus prooving in his views that the Shroud of Jesus is a masterful fake.

As a Catholic who has seen the Shroud with my own two eyes, I firmly believe the Shroud housed in Turin to be real. How should we respond to something like this?

Here’s the link on the story.

Anna
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It’s just modernist sensationalism at it’s worst.

First of all similar techniques have already been tried over the years, in an attempt to see if the Shroud could have been made in the middle ages.

From everything I remember they could never duplicate the “3-D effect” that is present in the shroud.

Also the “Blood Type” from the stains match other alleged “Blood Types” typically thought to be of the Christ. How could they possibly know about “Blood Types” and 3-D effects in the middle ages?

They couldn’t.

There are quite a few other elements to be dealt with, that they haven’t even come close to claiming that they have simulated.

Just a bunch of atheist’s that don’t know what they are doing.
 
I invite everyone to read this:

sindone.org/en/past/papagp.htm

The Shroud of Turin is called the Holy Shroud. Any attempt to explain it is just another recent attempt to discredit the truth. An osuary (stone box) supposedly containing the bones of Jesus turned up a few years ago. Before that, a science program ‘explaining’ the plagues brought against Egypt by God. Any who think that someone is out to make a buck should consider the cost of producing and filming programs like this.

I am reminded of Communist Russia where it was the purpose of the State to create propaganda against religion. In the midst of widespread hedonism, the devaluing of morals, especially in the media, and a Dictatorship of Relativism which allows for no absolute truth, except the absolute that there is no truth, the light of God is not extinguished.

Peace,
Ed
 
All believers must brace themselves. This is just the beginning. An onslaught against the Faith is forthcoming…and it will be calculating and sophisticated. An elite has purchased the tools which govern thought in this country, and one of their prime motivations is the de facto destruction of organized religion (this is a stated, documented dogma). These are atheists who blame the whole of mankind’s problems on organized religion. True believers will be the targets of a campaign of marginalization and vile caracature. The fencesitters, who will try to meet the enemy at the midpoint, will be nothing short of heretical. In the end, all things will be radicalized…as there will be no more hiding places for the cowards who have heretofore occupied the middle. St. Peter’s plight, (denial), shall confront us all at some point in this struggle.
 
unafraid said:
All believers must brace themselves. This is just the beginning. An onslaught against the Faith is forthcoming…and it will be calculating and sophisticated. An elite has purchased the tools which govern thought in this country, and one of their prime motivations is the de facto destruction of organized religion (this is a stated, documented dogma). These are atheists who blame the whole of mankind’s problems on organized religion. True believers will be the targets of a campaign of marginalization and vile caracature. The fencesitters, who will try to meet the enemy at the midpoint, will be nothing short of heretical. In the end, all things will be radicalized…as there will be no more hiding places for the cowards who have heretofore occupied the middle. St. Peter’s plight, (denial), shall confront us all at some point in this struggle.
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I do believe.

I pray I would not/will not fail Our Lord (any tests). God showed me recently how weak my Faith is. A friend of mine had an alcoholic/abusive (nutty) husband she divorced 5 years ago. They have 2 teenagers. She let him move back in when he got sick. He hadn’t worked since the beginning of this year. Her mother paid the premiums on a small-ish life insurance policy ($50K) for the last 6 months. He died of lung cancer a couple of weeks ago.

She found out afterwards, that right before he died, he changed the beneficiary from her to his brother.

Abusive. One last time, he reached up from the grave and gave her a slap. I haven’t been so angry (ever?) as I was when I found out about this. I know his family members are “all about the money.”

My prayer is that God Strengthens my Faith (and Guide me) for what’s ahead. I have already asked Him to allow me to live to go through whatever is ahead-with my family.

+Pax,
ysiC, Dawn

PS I read Mark Mallett’s blog:
markmallett.com/blog/?p=64
 
DawnInTexas said:
I do believe.

I pray I would not/will not fail Our Lord (any tests). God showed me recently how weak my Faith is. A friend of mine had an alcoholic/abusive (nutty) husband she divorced 5 years ago. They have 2 teenagers. She let him move back in when he got sick. He hadn’t worked since the beginning of this year. Her mother paid the premiums on a small-ish life insurance policy ($50K) for the last 6 months. He died of lung cancer a couple of weeks ago.

She found out afterwards, that right before he died, he changed the beneficiary from her to his brother.

Abusive. One last time, he reached up from the grave and gave her a slap. I haven’t been so angry (ever?) as I was when I found out about this. I know his family members are “all about the money.”

My prayer is that God Strengthens my Faith (and Guide me) for what’s ahead. I have already asked Him to allow me to live to go through whatever is ahead-with my family.

+Pax,
ysiC, Dawn

PS I read Mark Mallett’s blog:
markmallett.com/blog/?p=64
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May God bless your friend and her children. !
 
I’m so glad to see so many people who believe as I do about the Holy Shroud. 👍

My question, though, wasn’t about the validity of this scientist’s conclusions, my question was how do we-- as devout followers of Christ-- defend ourselves against such “seemingly” accurate, scientific evidence? :confused: There are so many people out there who claim to have faith in something and yet allow themselves to be swayed by the silliest of details. This “proof” put forth by this single man could, in essance, make many unbelivers.

I still love Tim’s reply from earlier:
Timothysis said:
I love the idea that if someone can reproduce an effect, then for some reason the initial occurrence is somehow “disproven.” A doctor can, with appropriate procedures and medical science, cause a blind person to see again. Does that somehow negate Christ’s healing of the blind man?
Click to expand...
But how else can we defend our Faith that this piece of cloth truly holds the image of Jesus–as I have seen and believe?
 
TamaraSieja said:
I’m so glad to see so many people who believe as I do about the Holy Shroud. 👍

My question, though, wasn’t about the validity of this scientist’s conclusions, my question was how do we-- as devout followers of Christ-- defend ourselves against such “seemingly” accurate, scientific evidence? :confused: There are so many people out there who claim to have faith in something and yet allow themselves to be swayed by the silliest of details. This “proof” put forth by this single man could, in essance, make many unbelivers.

I still love Tim’s reply from earlier: But how else can we defend our Faith that this piece of cloth truly holds the image of Jesus–as I have seen and believe?
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Faith. History. Okay, you want more?

Let the scientists copy it today in the same manner. Yeah, right.

Tamara, there is too much evidence on the Holy Shroud! For instance, pollen from plants that don’t exist anymore from that area are in the fibers. The cloth would have been wetted in the water (river/stream-I can’t remember) then stretched out alongside to dry (and bleach) when it was first made. This is how the pollen was lodged in the fibers. It was floating on the surface of the waters.

There is more. Much more. This (above) was profound to me.

The image is like a negative. 3 Dimentional. How many other tapestries are 3 Dimentional?

“They” didn’t have the technology then. “They” don’t have it now. Supernatural. There’s more…I’ll see what I can find on the web. Careful, I am sure there are many returns for a search. Make sure it’s a Catholic or trusted source!

+Peace Be With You.
-Dawn (your sister in Christ)
 
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