The silent parts of the TLM - anyone get thrown off track by this?

[lizaanne]

I have to admit that I am blind when it comes to this since I was an altar boy before the NO. On the Sundays on which I was not serving, I had my Missal as did my mother. Keeping up was never a problem…The gestures of the priest were indicative of where you were.

You were born to the TLM, I was born to the NO. I know the order of the NO in my sleep. I don’t have that luxury with the TLM, it is totally new to me. For you it is second nature, for me it’s like learning to walk all over again.

~Liza

 

[Windmill]

I have been to one TLM, and it is hard to follow at first. puz, I think your learning curve will be shorter than most because you already have a sense of propers, seasons, feast days, etc… from your praying the LOTH. What I found is that it is easier to pray the parts of the TLM at my own pace, and if I find myself too fast, I slow down or stop and wait for cues. Sometimes the priest is praying faster, in which case I adjust my praying to match.

 

[peregrinator_it]

I never claimed that I “don’t know what’s going on” - I know very well what’s going on.

Why is it that I don’t seem to be making myself clear here.

I know what I’m there for
I know what’s happening
I pray the Mass
I don’t need to control it or “help” the priest
I don’t need to hear the priest during the silent parts

All I was asking is if others seem to get lost when the priest is silent. That’s all. I guess I’m sorry I asked now because I don’t seem to be making myself clear.

Guess I’ll just keep going and keep getting lost until I figure it out for myself.

Thanks to those who did offer some practical comments.

~Liza

Liza,

First, I don’t think your original request was unclear; you want to unite your prayers to those of the priest and it’s hard to do that if you don’t know which prayer the priest is praying.

I’ve been “lost” during the silent Canon as well, even though I have the advantage of knowing the Pauline Mass in Latin, which means I already knew much of the TLM.

What helped me was learning cues (this was when I attended a TLM Low Mass) either the priests posture, gestures, or words said a in a little louder tone, such as “Nobis quoque peccatoribus.” As someone has already pointed out, your missal can be helpful with this. Once I’d learned the cues, I realized that Father’s praying speed was pretty uneven and at times he went faster and at other times slower than I; so I simply tried to catch him at the cues. Watching the servers can be helpful for cues as well.

I realize this may be difficult to impossible at TLM High Mass where there may be a choir/schola who are louder than the priest (I’m thinking at the Sanctus and the Agnus Dei especially) and are not in sync with him. My only suggestions are either try to rely solely on visual cues and/or sit in the front so that you can hear (and see) the priest better.

Hope this is helpful; although to be honest, the silent Canon (and especially what I described at the High Mass) is one of the reasons I don’t attend the TLM.

 

[lizaanne]

Hope this is helpful…

Thank you, it is very helpful actually, I will have to pay attention to cues next time and see when I need them. Problem is that I very rarely watch, I mostly listen, pray, and read with my head down. So this will mean that I’ll have to change my posture a bit, which is probably not a bad thing.

Oh - and our Church is HUGE - so you can’t get close enough to hear the priest - the sanctury is way to big to get close.

Here is a photo of our main altar during a wedding: te-deum.blogspot.com/2007/06/marriage-at-assumption-grotto.html

Thank you very much for this - it is most helpful!

~Liza

 

[jj2011]

There are cues, like bells. Three bells at the Sanctus, one bell at the Hanc Igitur, three bells at each consecration, then the Nobis quoque.’

It takes a little time to learn, though. The problem she described is fully normal for beginners.

 

[tcraig]

I’ve been to the TLM about four times now at two different parishes. There are parts of the Mass that the priest says silently. I always seem to get thrown off track when following the missal because I can’t hear him.

Give it a little more time. Really. Eventually you will reach a point where you will recognize certain gestures/movements that the priest makes, or realize that a certain “Dominus vobiscum” signals that you are at this particular point in the mass.

There are some points in the TLM that I closely follow in my missal, and other points where I just observe and pray on my own. But after several years of attendance I recognize where I’m at simply by the priest’s movements.

It does take a little time, though; probably by mass number ten or so you’ll be a pro!

 

[brotherhrolf]

I have to admit I’m either dense or old or both. The Canon of the TLM Mass equates more or less to Eucharistic Prayer 1 in the NO. Even though father has his back turned, his right hand is visible when he makes the sign of the cross which he does three times before the Consecration (no missing that). The next time is shortly before the Minor Elevation where he uncovers the chalice, genuflects, and makes the sign of the cross with the host before chanting “Per ipsum et cum ipso …”

Even at a low Mass, father’s actions would be observable with the red crosses in the Missal. What am I missing here?

 

[peregrinator_it]

Thank you, it is very helpful actually, I will have to pay attention to cues next time and see when I need them. Problem is that I very rarely watch, I mostly listen, pray, and read with my head down. So this will mean that I’ll have to change my posture a bit, which is probably not a bad thing.

Yeah, I had to make a conscious decision to look up sometimes; it can be a little intimidating if you’re trying not to lose your place. Reminded me a little of being in school orchestra when our conductor would plead/beg/shout “Get your eyes out of the music and WATCH me.”

 

[lizaanne]

I have to admit I’m either dense or old or both. The Canon of the TLM Mass equates more or less to Eucharistic Prayer 1 in the NO. Even though father has his back turned, his right hand is visible when he makes the sign of the cross which he does three times before the Consecration (no missing that). The next time is shortly before the Minor Elevation where he uncovers the chalice, genuflects, and makes the sign of the cross with the host before chanting “Per ipsum et cum ipso …”

Even at a low Mass, father’s actions would be observable with the red crosses in the Missal. What am I missing here?

This must be what you are missing…

Thank you, it is very helpful actually, I will have to pay attention to cues next time and see when I need them. Problem is that I very rarely watch, I mostly listen, pray, and read with my head down. So this will mean that I’ll have to change my posture a bit, which is probably not a bad thing.

~Liza

 

[lizaanne]

Yeah, I had to make a conscious decision to look up sometimes; it can be a little intimidating if you’re trying not to lose your place. Reminded me a little of being in school orchestra when our conductor would plead/beg/shout “Get your eyes out of the music and WATCH me.”

Oh my - I remember those days too!!! Good analogy - I’ll have to remember that!

~Liza

 

[mercygate]

I’ve been to the TLM about four times now at two different parishes. There are parts of the Mass that the priest says silently. I always seem to get thrown off track when following the missal because I can’t hear him.

How do others keep track of where you are in the Mass? Is it just time and repetition?

I do love the TLM, though I think I still prefer our wonderfully reverent and beautiful NO at our parish better. But the TLM is certainly growing on me

~Liza

Yep. I’m always behind and have to catch up when the bells ring.

 

[peregrinator_it]

I have to admit I’m either dense or old or both. The Canon of the TLM Mass equates more or less to Eucharistic Prayer 1 in the NO. Even though father has his back turned, his right hand is visible when he makes the sign of the cross which he does three times before the Consecration (no missing that). The next time is shortly before the Minor Elevation where he uncovers the chalice, genuflects, and makes the sign of the cross with the host before chanting “Per ipsum et cum ipso …”

Even at a low Mass, father’s actions would be observable with the red crosses in the Missal. What am I missing here?

It’s a little harder to keep track of things when you don’t have the advantage of having seen them done them all your life.

In a larger church it may be impossible to see the priests hands unless you are sitting dead in the front.

Also different priests say the prayers/ perform the gestures differently. Frankly, when I caught the cues at the TLM Low Mass I used to attend, I realized that part of my difficulty in keeping up was that Father sped through the familiar prayers at warp speed and then slowed to a glacial pace when he had to read the Secret or Communion verse etc., that he was unfamiliar with.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Bells - at the Consecration? Even so, father is making the sign of the cross over the gifts shortly before the Consecration. I feel I’m seriously missing something here.

 

[BlyssfulDreamer]

Liza…

I attended my first TLM last spring after about 40+ years. I entered the church at 15 largely because of the beautiful Mass.

I was at a loss when I thought about going back last spring. I asked all sorts of questions on this board. I went and bought a little red missalette like what is in the church. I studied it for a few weeks (before I attended Mass) so I could familiarize myself with the parts of the Mass and the “gestures” the priest uses that might help me to remember where I was.

My knees were knocking the first time and I sat in the back and watched the others. By following along in the little red missallette it helped but I soon got my own 1962 Roman Missal.

We have 2 priests…one who goes slower and the other who must have taken “speed reading.”…LOL. I watch for movements when he is making the sign of the cross(the priest moves back and forth a little…LOL). …when he genuflects…when he says the “Nobis quoque peccatoribus” which signals the end of the silent part of the Mass. There will be one ringing of the bell at the “Hanc Igitir” before the Consecration…kind of like a warning bell almost. Just little things that you will notice over time and you will soon become familiar with. It actually only took me say about 2 weeks to completely become familiar. Of course, I am speaking of a low Mass here and I still have yet to attend a High Mass (as my work schedule conflicts). But I attended Solemn Mass a couple of months ago and it was really beautiful.

God Bless…
:heart:Blyss

 

[baltobetsy]

We still had the TLM when I was a smart-alecky young teen. I was next to my mother at Mass as she dutifully followed along in her missal at the same pace as the priest. Because I wanted to do anything that was NOT what she was doing, I read ahead as fast as possible and sat waiting for the cues, such as the Nobis quoque peccatoribus. She thought I was not following along, and would tap my missal to indicate that I should be looking at it. I would tap it right back to show her that I had already arrived at the next stopping point. What a nasty little wench I was!

Betsy

 

[brotherhrolf]

We still had the TLM when I was a smart-alecky young teen. I was next to my mother at Mass as she dutifully followed along in her missal at the same pace as the priest. Because I wanted to do anything that was NOT what she was doing, I read ahead as fast as possible and sat waiting for the cues, such as the Nobis quoque peccatoribus. She thought I was not following along, and would tap my missal to indicate that I should be looking at it. I would tap it right back to show her that I had already arrived at the next stopping point. What a nasty little wench I was!

Betsy

:bigyikes: No, we didn’t know what was going on in those days. Our parents didn’t teach us! I can still see my mother’s fingernail tapping along the Latin text. We had no idea of what was going on in the Mass.

 

[dbacks5439]

Keep going. You’ll find it will soon become second nature

I already recognize most of the words and have a somewhat vague idea as to what they mean already. I will get more in depth next semester when they finally will offer Latin here on campus.

 

[dbacks5439]

:bigyikes: No, we didn’t know what was going on in those days. Our parents didn’t teach us! I can still see my mother’s fingernail tapping along the Latin text. We had no idea of what was going on in the Mass.

I agree with you (yes I saw through your sarcasm ). All you really need to do is teach your children at a very young age Latin. By 5, they will be able to know both English (or other language) and Latin. That’s all that’s needed to be done. At my Tridentine parish, I see families where the children are paying attention and they know Latin. Can’t really say the same at the NO.

Another benefit of teaching Latin to young children is that when they are in high school, they can learn Spanish or French that much faster since they already know the root language of both.

 

[peregrinator_it]

I agree with you (yes I saw through your sarcasm ). All you really need to do is teach your children at a very young age Latin. By 5, they will be able to know both English (or other language) and Latin. That’s all that’s needed to be done. At my Tridentine parish, I see families where the children are paying attention and they know Latin. Can’t really say the same at the NO.

Sure you could, if it was offered in Latin. That’s how I learned . (Although, I don’t think I had a good grasp on some of the longer Mass prayers in English 'til I was 10ish. )

 

[brotherhrolf]

Which was my pont exactly. We learned as children. Maybe my experiences were different since I went to a Catholic school and the good sisters and, yes, Father fully prepared us to make our First Communion in second grade - and how to use our missals.

For heaven’s sake, I became an altar boy at the end of third grade. Latin is not some mysterious language - the sheer number of words in English which are derived from Latin…I mean, really, what kid in the fourth grade can’t see the connection between corpus and corpse?