The silent parts of the TLM - anyone get thrown off track by this?

[peregrinator_it]

Which was my point exactly.

Yes, I know. But your point (and mine above) aren’t relevant to the OP.

Neither the original poster, nor me, nor many on this thread were taught to use the TLM missal when children- so following the TLM is still a challenge. I don’t think anyone was implying that it’s requires superhuman effort or is just impossible. It’s simply difficult to follow at first for those who didn’t learn it as children.

(I did learn the Latin Mass as a child- but the Latin NO… Frankly, I wish it were more readily available and I think if the Latin NO were widely implemented after the Council, we wouldn’t be facing as many of these cultural gaps within the Church.)

 

[brotherhrolf]

Whoah! I’m sorry. I always tend to forget my age and the church in which I grew up. I have been waiting for this for so long…

My parish does not have a TLM but we have a good bit of Gregorian chant and Latin motets. My kids at least learned the Kyrie, Sanctus and Agnus Dei used during Lent.

From the time I was five or so, I attended Mass. I may not have known what was being said, but I knew I was in the presence of the sacred…which is a lot more than I can say for the five year olds today with their toys, milk, granola, etc in the pew - all of which would have been totally unacceptable 50 years ago.

I guess the problem I am having with all of this is that I know all too good and well that there are significant numbers of my baby boomer generation alive and in our mid-50s who ain’t dead yet. If my parish had a TLM I would teach my sons the same way my mother taught me - pay attention to the rubrics which are audible and watch for the gestures for the sotto vocce parts.

There is a whole bunch of us who were born in the 50s and who grew up with the Mass in Latin. We ain’t dead yet. Reach out to us old geezers. I could show you what was going on in two Masses at best.

 

[Markstorm]

I’ve never found a chance to go to the TLM, so obviously I have no hints for you. Good luck, though, and consider yourself lucky.

 

[Joannm]

I remember the Latin Mass from 1960 until the changes, but event though I went to a Cathoic school we didn’t learn any Latin nor do I remember being taught any of the responses for the dialogue mass which is what the school masses were. The only mass I remember going to was a low mass and a high mass only once one Christmas Eve when I was in the choir. I do remember singing a lot in latin for my Confirmation in 4th grade. I do remember having a missal but were only taught what was happening but not the specifics of the Mass.

The funny thing is that my family moved just about the same time as the venacular came about. I remember thinking that they just say mass differntly in the new parish and that I could now understand it so I really liked it better than the old parish.

 

[Fitswimmer]

When I first went to a TLM a few years back, one of the ushers recognized me as a “newbie”. He gave me one of the missals that they had on hand for visitors and led me to a seat near his wife who helped me out.

It really is just a matter of sticking with it and as unusual as it is for Catholics-sit near the front. I found that really helped me to follow the Priest. I found sitting 3 or 4 rows back gave me people I could watch for when to sit, stand and kneel and I could still hear the Priest and see his gestures.

 

[ElizabethPH]

I found also that watching helps. But I don’t go often as it’s a day trip from where I live. Also it is a Monastery and the altar is very far from the congregation with all the monks in between and it’s hard to see if one isn’t in the first pew. I like to sit behind the nun’s if I can. There aren’t many pew’s and it fills up fast. I’ve got a long way to go before I become accustomed to it. I would like to go much more often. I was raised with the Latin Mass; my brother’s were altar boys. I followed it very well as a child. But as they say if you don’t use it you lose it. At least I sure did!!

 

[Quackers]

I’ve been to the TLM about four times now at two different parishes. There are parts of the Mass that the priest says silently. I always seem to get thrown off track when following the missal because I can’t hear him.

How do others keep track of where you are in the Mass? Is it just time and repetition?

I do love the TLM, though I think I still prefer our wonderfully reverent and beautiful NO at our parish better. But the TLM is certainly growing on me

~Liza

I was frustrated when I first started attending a Tridentine parish, because I was lost and confused during the silent parts of the Mass. I voiced my frustration to my priest, and he explained the Mass to me. Maybe you could try speaking to your priest? Also, the more you attend the better it will get. I’ve only been attending for a few months, and it’s already gotten a lot clearer for me. Hang in there!

 

[Jfran41]

I must admit to being mystified when people say that the get “confused” when they cannot hear the priest in prayer at a Latin Mass. The priest is not a Protestant Minister who stands facing the congregation and LEADS in prayer. By using the missal, a Roman Catholic congregation JOINS the priest in prayer.
Any confusion may come from the attempts by modernists at VC II to blend new, novel approaches to prayer with Catholic tradition. For me, it has never worked. Much of the prayer services I hear at NO services sound as religious as a recitation of The Pledge of Allegiance. Everyone knows the words but few seem to care what they mean.
If I wanted an English-only service, I could have joined the Anglican Church.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

I’ve been to the TLM about four times now at two different parishes. There are parts of the Mass that the priest says silently. I always seem to get thrown off track when following the missal because I can’t hear him.

How do others keep track of where you are in the Mass? Is it just time and repetition?

I do love the TLM, though I think I still prefer our wonderfully reverent and beautiful NO at our parish better. But the TLM is certainly growing on me

~Liza

At the TLM in my city, the whole thing is silent. The priest just comes in and does his thing and you can barely hear a word. Even the readings, assuming he says the readings, are in latin and rather quiet. Eventually they start ringing bells so you know communion is coming soon. Then at the end people say some really fast Hail Mary’s. Is that unusual? I don’t understand why anyone would prefer that to a Ordinary Form mass.

 

[Strevel]

I do sometimes. It’s the variable parts of the Mass that are the cause for me. I am able to hear my priest speak in Latin but since my knowledge of Latin is extremely limited, I do not know when he is near the end which is my cue to flip the page.

I love to hear the bell ring as the Priest enters and we all stand. Speak with your Priest, ask him. Form a class of members that meets immediately after Mass and after the “Donut Social” to discuss the Latin Mass. The Clergy should attend so as to show them the members interest, and to be sure the conclusions are correct.
The "Latin Mass is special and is from the roots (stirpes) of the Church. I enjoy it as well.

Pax Vobiscum dude! (Peace be with you)

 

[ribbit]

I must admit to being mystified when people say that the get “confused” when they cannot hear the priest in prayer at a Latin Mass. The priest is not a Protestant Minister who stands facing the congregation and LEADS in prayer. By using the missal, a Roman Catholic congregation JOINS the priest in prayer.
Any confusion may come from the attempts by modernists at VC II to blend new, novel approaches to prayer with Catholic tradition. For me, it has never worked. Much of the prayer services I hear at NO services sound as religious as a recitation of The Pledge of Allegiance. Everyone knows the words but few seem to care what they mean.
If I wanted an English-only service, I could have joined the Anglican Church.

I think many newbies just don’t have the timing down yet. While they have a missal and are reading/praying along, they aren’t staying in sync with the Priest. For example, they’re still at the “Memento, Domine, famulorum…” when the bells are rung for the “Hanc igitur oblationem…” What do they do? Stay off-sync with the priest? Skip what they haven’t done to catch up? It took me a while to figure out that my priest doesn’t keep a steady tempo, so he gets through some prayers faster than others. Your parish might be better, but at ‘catch up points’ like the bells or “Dominus vobiscum…” I hear a lot of pages suddenly flipping so many people are ‘off’.

 

[Quackers]

I must admit to being mystified when people say that the get “confused” when they cannot hear the priest in prayer at a Latin Mass. The priest is not a Protestant Minister who stands facing the congregation and LEADS in prayer. By using the missal, a Roman Catholic congregation JOINS the priest in prayer.
Any confusion may come from the attempts by modernists at VC II to blend new, novel approaches to prayer with Catholic tradition. For me, it has never worked. Much of the prayer services I hear at NO services sound as religious as a recitation of The Pledge of Allegiance. Everyone knows the words but few seem to care what they mean.
If I wanted an English-only service, I could have joined the Anglican Church.

I don’t find it mystifying at all. It can be confusing for anyone who attends for the first time, especially if they’re coming from a Protestant background.

 

[ac_claire]

Much of the prayer services I hear at NO services sound as religious as a recitation of The Pledge of Allegiance. Everyone knows the words but few seem to care what they mean.
If I wanted an English-only service, I could have joined the Anglican Church.

That’s a broad bruch you’re weilding there!
I’ve heard some sketchy, modernist things at mass, but not at all masses. IMO, not even at most, but maybe that’s because I try to not focus on being overly critical of minor stylistic aspects of the mass. (For me, it’s hard, because I am a real critical person and I have to work to keep that in check.) Of course, I am not talking about real abuses here.

Please remember that the NO mass is a Catholic mass. For us that are a little younger it is “the” mass…I didn’t even know it was the “Novus Ordo” (sp?) till I subbed to this forum…Christ and the early disciples said mass in the vernacular, and the Church now uses the vernacular again. To me it just makes sense - that’s the language that we speak. Not dismissing TLM at all…just saying…

But to the OP- I’ve been to two Latin masses and want to go back again. I feel what you’re saying because I’ve had the same problem, being thrown off track by the silences and not knowing where I am. From reading all the replies in this thread I’m pretty confident that this’ll get better with time.

Our missal has the little pictures, too, but it doesn’t help all that much because you have to be in the first couple rows to see Father’s slight movements. Plus I was thrown off by which mass we were even on, was it high, low, ect. But I think in my diocese (austin) it’s complicated by the fact that the priest who does TLM is an older man and it’s kinda hard to hear him, period. Even during the homily, which is in english.

So anyhow, I’m glad you got some good answers here. I admire you a lot for making the effort to go regularly…

 

[stryglass]

Peace be with you!

I’ve only recently been introduced to the Tridentine Mass and you’re right, the first several times or so, I felt like a frustrated two year old, trying to absorb everything at once, wanting to understand, to follow along, to participate, but unable to!

Now, about a month later, attending as regularly as possible (at least Sundays, occasionally once or twice during the week as they are offered and schedule allows), I think I’d finally refer to myself as a six (maybe seven) year old…still a long way to go, but much more confident and able to participate more fully. Unfortunately, I cannot offer any more advise than what others have…rather, I offer my sympathy, words of encouragement, and prayers and ask for yours in return as I also continue this journey toward full participation in the Holy Sacrifice of Calvary.

For anyone just discovering this beautiful and true Holy Sacrifice of the Mass as experienced, written about, and so highly praised by the saints, be patient. Persevere - it’s worth it! Read and learn the true purpose of the Mass and its history…its evolution, heresies against it and the corresponding defenses. In another thread I’d mentioned two booklets by Michael Davies I found particularly enlightening…“The Catholic Sanctuary and the Second Vatican Council” and “A Short History of the Roman Mass”…both are published by Tan Books. Though very short, they are by no means “light” reading if one is serious about the faith, the Church, and ultimately, the Truth.

May Our Lady guide and pray for us as we strive to know, love, and serve God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Amen

 

[vadermanu89]

Hi everyone.

The TLM looks very sacred on the various videos in youtube.I think both the Pauline Mass and the Tridentine Mass appeals differently to different people. I believe the Catholic CHurch should make both mass available to the laity since both are truly treasures of the Church. The Tridentine Rite Missal appeals mainly to those who are into smells and bells and seek quiet and peace to communicate with God. Wheras the Pauline Rite appeals to the average Catholics since it is simple and easy to understand. Moreover since there is an emphasis on laity participation due to the Paschal Banquet/Meal principles, it is easier to foster a community like spirit in the parish itself.

Do not get me wrong, both Missals are equally valid and licit. The Tridentine Mass is a true restoration of the Gelasian Rites while the Pauline Mass is a true restoration of the ancient liturgies. Both are pleasing to God and his Church.

 

[CradleCath]

I’ve been to the TLM about four times now at two different parishes. There are parts of the Mass that the priest says silently. I always seem to get thrown off track when following the missal because I can’t hear him.

How do others keep track of where you are in the Mass? Is it just time and repetition?

 

[Rosewith]

Are you sure you’re not indulging in “holy day dreamimg” during the Tridentine Rite? I think that this is what many people “miss” in it. "Liturgy"means “work.” If you think that standing before God in worship is “busywork,” maybe you have a serious misunderstanding, to put it as nicely as possible.

 

[CradleCath]

Are you sure you’re not indulging in “holy day dreamimg” during the Tridentine Rite?

Holy day dreaming?? You’ll have to give me an example of a “holy day dream” in order to get an answer to that one.

I think that this is what many people “miss” in it. "Liturgy"means

 

[alpslapper]

Here is a photo of our main altar during a wedding: te-deum.blogspot.com/2007/06/marriage-at-assumption-grotto.html

Wow - beautiful

 

[alpslapper]

There are cues, like bells. Three bells at the Sanctus, one bell at the Hanc Igitur, three bells at each consecration, then the Nobis quoque.’

It takes a little time to learn, though. The problem she described is fully normal for beginners.

I use these as my main ques as well, along with where the priest is on the alter. even mass Ive been to so far though I have got ‘‘lost’’ in the missal, but the prayerfullness and solemnity of the rite made that irrelevant as I was swept up in the ritual - later, perhaps on the que of a bell, Id find where I the priest was in the missal, and carry on from there, till I got ''lost again