The Silent Voices Bible

[Whitacre_Girl]

A friend posted this on her facebook to all take a look at. I got through three chapters and I had to stop due to nausea. I just can’t even put into words how many ways this is wrong.

silentvoicesbible.com/

I just said “Read three chapters. Not a fan.”

 

[iwillendure]

read the intro…not a fan

 

[po18guy]

Talk about the traditions of men…uh, or is it now of women?

 

[Seattle_Progres]

I think it’s a fascinating study. I’m not sure I understand what you folks see when you read it but I think it’s a pretty amazing illustration of the male orientation of the bible.

@Whitacre_Girl: what caused the nausea? Is it just the way it’s different or did something feel wrong?

 

[PAboy57]

I don’t think our Blessed Mother would be pleased to have her role reduced to that of a man. We need her motherly strength and perfection to help guide us to her Son.

I think women in general are stronger and more reliable than men. Just look at who was standing at the foot of the cross – several women and only 1 man. That says a lot about the courage of women.

 

[po18guy]

I think it’s a fascinating study. I’m not sure I understand what you folks see when you read it but I think it’s a pretty amazing illustration of the male orientation of the bible.

@Whitacre_Girl: what caused the nausea? Is it just the way it’s different or did something feel wrong?

Welcome to the forums! What brought you here?

I think her disgust was from the fact that the more devout a believer one is, the more sickening it is to see one’s sacred beliefs altered to suit someone else’s preferences.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

Welcome to the forums! What brought you here?

I think her disgust was from the fact that the more devout a believer one is, the more sickening it is to see one’s sacred beliefs altered to suit someone else’s preferences.

Not only that, but the reduction of genders that God created to meaninglessness in a culture already desparately confused.

God shows that he cherishes women, and the fact that scripture is somehow “flawed” by “male infuence” is very very unnerving that someone thinks that scripture is somehow flawed. If that is the case, then what can we trust?

I suspect, Seattle Proges, you are the author’s wife?

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

I think it’s a fascinating study. I’m not sure I understand what you folks see when you read it but I think it’s a pretty amazing illustration of the male orientation of the bible.

@Whitacre_Girl: what caused the nausea? Is it just the way it’s different or did something feel wrong?

It felt wrong. It felt like a desparate assault on gender identity, and a further effort to emascualte men, and tear down femininity. God created us perfectly and created our genders to reflect his own holy persona. When I see men trying to further destroy what God created to be a perfect reflection of his love, I get sick.

As I read the words, where men and women were treated as interchangeable, I felt a deep spiritual distress. Not unlike reading heretical texts, or that cry of the Holy Spirit that says “This. Is. Wrong. STOP.”

 

[Seattle_Progres]

I guess I’m still just confused. It sounds like the complaints are “This is unusual” or “This is unfamiliar”.

If this feminized bible had been the original, would the quality of our faith actually be different or would it be identical to how it is now? Would we fight just as hard against a masculinized biible if that popped up on the internet?

I guess what I’m asking is: is it just strange to have the nearly all the positions of power in the bible held by women or does it actually violate some part of our faith?

It’s my belief that we have to continuously ask ourselves: what parts of our tradition are there because they’re holy? And what parts are there because they’ve just always been around?

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

I guess I’m still just confused. It sounds like the complaints are “This is unusual” or “This is unfamiliar”.

If this feminized bible had been the original, would the quality of our faith actually be different or would it be identical to how it is now? Would we fight just as hard against a masculinized biible if that popped up on the internet?

I guess what I’m asking is: is it just strange to have the nearly all the positions of power in the bible held by women or does it actually violate some part of our faith?

It’s my belief that we have to continuously ask ourselves: what parts of our tradition are there because they’re holy? And what parts are there because they’ve just always been around?

I’ll try to make this easy:

Do you believe that scripture is the complete, inerrant, infallible word of God?

 

[po18guy]

It felt wrong. It felt like a desparate assault on gender identity, and a further effort to emascualte men, and tear down femininity. God created us perfectly and created our genders to reflect his own holy persona. When I see men trying to further destroy what God created to be a perfect reflection of his love, I get sick.

As I read the words, where men and women were treated as interchangeable, I felt a deep spiritual distress. Not unlike reading heretical texts, or that cry of the Holy Spirit that says “This. Is. Wrong. STOP.”

God has blessed woman with the grace of intuition. You automatically sense when something is wrong and avoid it. Men, on the other hand, tend to be like cats and simply forge ahead curiously. Male and female were created with specific strengths and weaknesses. Amazingly enough, it is in union - the two fleshes become one, that the ideal combination is achieved.

On the home page of that site, there is a quote “If God is man, then man is God”. So, we fix that by reversing it? OoooooooooooK…

I do see one bit of feminism that smacks of gender supremacy: the aspect that women are capable of anything and everything that men are, plus bearing children. So, where does that leave us poor X chromosome-challenged guys?

 

[Seattle_Progres]

Do you believe that scripture is the complete, inerrant, infallible word of God?

I believe Jesus is the infallible Word of God as our tradition and the gospel of John tell us.

I believe the bible is central to our tradition, “God-breathed, and useful for teaching.” (2Tim) And I think that there is much in it that needs to be celebrated as well as much that needs to be mourned.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

I believe Jesus is the infallible Word of God as our tradition and the gospel of John tell us.

I believe the bible is central to our tradition, “God-breathed, and useful for teaching.” (2Tim) And I think that there is much in it that needs to be celebrated as well as much that needs to be mourned.

SO you believe Jesus is an authority because another authority told you so? Or because a flawed book told you so. If thise book - the only relaible source we have of who Jesus is, is wrong, then how do you know who Christ really is?

What do you mean “mourned?” Are you talking about the hardships faced by people, or do you really think that parts of scripture are so horrific that they must be changed to suit some people’s “feelings”?

Basically, what this comes down to is that the author of this book changed scripture. This is a very grave and serious matter. Setting that aside, it changed scripture in a way that violates our faith. It violates how God made us, and it violates his message of his saving grave, mercy, and his revelation of his love to us THROUGH the genders.

Not to mention, I as a woman, am offended that they took the Holy Mother Mary and assumed that such a central figure chosen to bear God, was a man. It was through women sin entered the world, and it is through a woman that the redemption for all entered the world. It, in facts, violates women on such a deeper level than any percieved misogyny in the “original text.” Do you realize how honoring it is to all of woman kind that men may fight and protect the faithful (as in judges, etc…) but it is a WOMAN who was chosen to be the sole human parent of Christ Jesus?

 

[po18guy]

I believe Jesus is the infallible Word of God as our tradition and the gospel of John tell us.

I believe the bible is central to our tradition, “God-breathed, and useful for teaching.” (2Tim) And I think that there is much in it that needs to be celebrated as well as much that needs to be mourned.

In the Catholic faith, the bible both documents the Tradition that Jesus established, as well as comprises one of three methods God uses to reveal His Truth. Every syllable, every utterance, and every physical act that Jesus performed was part of revealed Truth. Only a fraction of that revealed Truth was actually written down (John 20:30, John 21:25). Was the rest of it lost, or did God ensure that it would somehow be preserved?

 

[Seattle_Progres]

What do you mean “mourned?” Are you talking about the hardships faced by people, or do you really think that parts of scripture are so horrific that they must be changed to suit some people’s “feelings”?

I’m not sure why the word “feelings” needs to be in quotes, we all act on our feelings and that’s the primary way God works with us. This discussion, even, is not important to us because of our ideas but because of our powerful emotional connection to the issue. So, yeah, I think feelings are a big part of this.

That’s not to say that we should edit the bible to make it happy and bring it in line with what we think it should say. Then we’d never learn anything from it!

That’s why I think this silent voices thing is such a good idea. It allows us to look at the bible in a way that makes us decidedly uncomfortable and let’s us see our own faith from a different direction.

Take this for example: Numbers 5

Normally we wouldn’t think anything of this passage. But when I read it all swapped around I realize it’s kinda brutal. And one-sided. There’s a woman and a priestess punishing a man in a really degrading way. This is behavior I don’t think you or I would tolerate in our churches. But, strangely, when I’ve always read in the actual bible the cruelty of it never struck me. I’m not sure why and now I’m really thinking about it.

That’s what I mean by how I think some things in the bible are there to let us see what faithful people have done in the past and how they’ve fallen very, very short of holy and good behavior. We can learn from their example and vow not to repeat it.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

That’s what I mean by how I think some things in the bible are there to let us see what faithful people have done in the past and how they’ve fallen very, very short of holy and good behavior. We can learn from their example and vow not to repeat it.

Rather than respond to every point, I want to address this, because this is the very root of the problem.

You are calling a command of God from the TORAH an act of cruelty. You are calling God and his law cruel through proximity. I do not see that, I see God as a just God. His law is perfect, and his commands are life. He is all-loving, and merciful. He is the God that I love, and the God that I live for.

I do not see any of God’s laws or commands a mistake, or cruel. I believe he is smarter than me and my fleeting feelings which change from day to day. He is eternal, and omnicient. I am going to trust an omnicient and all-loving God over my own feeble ideas of what the world should be. Besides, if you read the passage again, you see that if the person was innocent nothing happened to them.

This is why we are unlikely to agree on this issue, and why I am at complete odds at the person who created this writing. I believe in a loving, fair, eterna, and just God. I believe his words are life and his words are eternal. It is clear that this author does not, and even more alters the word of God to suit his own agenda. To me, this is nauseating in and of itself. God does not exist to suit our agenda, WE EXIST TO SERVE HIS.

 

[mcrow]

This translation makes me sick.

We know Jesus was male and Jesus refers to God as “My Father”, so I don’t see any way around the fact that they should be refered to as male. The Holy Mother is clearly female and it’s nearly as offensive to call her a man as it is refer to Jesus as a female.

God made men and women each with our unique gifts-- there is no need to make things “more even”.

It’s a total disgrace.

 

[mcrow]

I guess I’m still just confused. It sounds like the complaints are “This is unusual” or “This is unfamiliar”.

If this feminized bible had been the original, would the quality of our faith actually be different or would it be identical to how it is now? Would we fight just as hard against a masculinized biible if that popped up on the internet?

I guess what I’m asking is: is it just strange to have the nearly all the positions of power in the bible held by women or does it actually violate some part of our faith?

It’s my belief that we have to continuously ask ourselves: what parts of our tradition are there because they’re holy? And what parts are there because they’ve just always been around?

If God call himself “mother:” and Jesus “daughter” then it would be the word of God. I suspect if that were the case, a masculinized bible probably would be a huge issue for us as well. It’s not that it’s feminized that’s the issue, it’s that if you change the sex of God and Jesus you are completely misrepresenting the word of God and his entended gender identities.

If gender identity made no difference, then God wouldn’t have made male and female.

To me, this seems like part of this feminist movement that’s helping wreck society.

 

[BigE]

1. Not only that, but the reduction of genders that God created to meaninglessness in a culture already desparately confused.
2. God shows that he cherishes women, and the fact that scripture is somehow “flawed” by “male infuence” is very very unnerving that someone thinks that scripture is somehow flawed. If that is the case, then what can we trust?

I suspect, Seattle Proges, you are the author’s wife?

1. How does swapping genders reduce them? The gender roles were just reversed.
2. The Bible certainly has a male influence to it, reflective of the time it was written. Women were certainly not considered anywhere equal to men. No Biblical Scholar would deny that.

 

[BigE]

SO you believe Jesus is an authority because another authority told you so? Or because a flawed book told you so. If thise book - the only relaible source we have of who Jesus is, is wrong, then how do you know who Christ really is?

The Bible is not the only reliable source we have of who Jesus is…we also have the Church and our oral traditions (the teachings of the apostles).

And how does that relate to the thread at hand anyways?