'The Simpsons' under fire over concerns about racism

[Rhubarb]

When people say “only whites can be racist” they don’t mean “only white people can be bigots.” They are using the word racism in a very specific way, which has a sense that the colloquial use of the word does not. And just to throw it out there, I think arguing the “only white people can be racist” thing is stupid, and people who say that are being ethnocentric - as another poster said, in Japan, white people aren’t the culturally privileged race.

The difference here is that no white person has ever had to deal with there being no positive images of people like them in the movies or on TV. They never had to deal with people confusing “white people” with the stereotype the media portrays. That’s why it doesn’t sting us when we’re lampooned for our race. Because it so rarely happens. And if you count up the decades, it almost never happens.

 

[Alex337]

Sure Always fun to talk.

 

[Pup7]

Indeed; but other folks don’t. And we should respect other peoples cultures. I brought up the Japan example to demonstrate how one rule doesn’t work for all. I hope that makes sense?

So if other people who are not Japanese are offended by a group of kids doing a tea ceremony for a class project, the kids are wrong and shouldn’t do it because the non-Japanese people are offended?

Stop. Please.

 

[Pup7]

I’m glad you approve.

I’ll continue to provide examples as I feel they’re appropriate. And as I mentioned Asia, the cultural denigration of Korea by the Japanese is 100% appropriate. And far more severe than some white guy voicing an Indian cartoon character unnoticed for 30 years.

 

[Alex337]

Alex337:

Indeed; but other folks don’t. And we should respect other peoples cultures. I brought up the Japan example to demonstrate how one rule doesn’t work for all. I hope that makes sense?

So if other people who are not Japanese are offended by a group of kids doing a tea ceremony for a class project, the kids are wrong and shouldn’t do it because the non-Japanese people are offended?

Stop. Please.

Friend, you seem to be attempting to misunderstand me. I specifically said earlier in this thread that we must listen to the minorities in regards to what is and is not offensive. I also explained just there that we cannot apply one rule for all minorities. Instead we should listen to them.

I’m not sure why you want me to stop?

Also, in regards to your next post; I don’t think that pointing out one thing being worse than another helps. It’s poor logic and ends in people not being able to do anything about something that isn’t the pinnacle of bad in the world.

 

[Pup7]

It’s not poor logic in the course of this conversation. It shows how out of magnitude PC has become.

ends in people not being able to do anything about something that isn’t the pinnacle of bad in the world.

It’s a cartoon character. It took 30 years for someone to be offended.

Thirty years.

 

[Pup7]

The difference here is that no white person has ever had to deal with there being no positive images of people like them in the movies or on TV. They never had to deal with people confusing “white people” with the stereotype the media portrays. That’s why it doesn’t sting us when we’re lampooned for our race. Because it so rarely happens. And if you count up the decades, it almost never happens.

Curious question.

Why do you think this whole thing hasn’t been offensive to anyone else of any race for 30 years?

 

[Alex337]

It’s not poor logic in the course of this conversation. It shows how out of magnitude PC has become.

Alex337:

ends in people not being able to do anything about something that isn’t the pinnacle of bad in the world.

It’s a cartoon character. It took 30 years for someone to be offended.

Thirty years.

I’m not sure that proclaiming how bad PC culture is really adds much to the discussion? Nor does it excuse poor argument styles.

It took 30 years for people to speak out about a thing; I don’t think that makes it not worth speaking about. Society has moved a lot in that time and the Simpsons has been an interesting touchstone from which to address these topics.

 

[Pup7]

PC culture is what causes this sort of thing. I’m not the only one here who’s said that. Pointing out how out of control it’s become is part of this conversation.

Nor does it excuse poor argument styles.

This isn’t a debate team with points and I don’t need to be critiqued. I haven’t done that to you.

 

[Alex337]

PC culture is what causes this sort of thing. I’m not the only one here who’s said that. Pointing out how out of control it’s become is part of this conversation.

Alex337:

Nor does it excuse poor argument styles.

This isn’t a debate team with points and I don’t need to be critiqued. I haven’t done that to you.

One could easily say that this is caused by racism and pointed out by those who wish for society to get better Simply blaming the messenger doesn’t address the problem at all.

And I’m afraid that discussions do normally work best when arguments are delivered well, Debating is an important skill.

 

[Rhubarb]

I know it has been. People are just more vocal about it.

Like I said, watch The Case Against Apu. It’s a good documentary. I doesn’t brow-beat White People™. It just explains the thoughts and feelings of Indian-Americans who were affected by the portrayal of the character.

 

[Pup7]

And I’m afraid that discussions do normally work best when arguments are delivered well, Debating is an important skill.

Your deflection is rather telling.

 

[Alex337]

Alex337:

And I’m afraid that discussions do normally work best when arguments are delivered well, Debating is an important skill.

Your deflection is rather telling.

I’m sure it helps that you’ve ignored all the parts where I answered your questions directly

I’ll restate the relevant part to help; you said that PC culture was to blame. I explained that this argument is like blaming a messenger and we should instead be seeking to pay attention to when a minority tells us that a representation of their group is offensive.

 

[SuperLuigi]

White supremacy is largely a myth. If there is any systemic discrimination in the West, it is against straight, white men.

 

[Alex337]

White supremacy is largely a myth. If there is any systemic discrimination in the West, it is against straight, white men.

This is simply untrue, but is also not relevant to this thread. If you would like to discuss this I will certainly get involved on the thread you start. But for now I won’t derail the topic.

 

[Pup7]

I’m sure it helps that you’ve ignored all the parts where I answered your questions directly

I’ll restate the relevant part to help; you said that PC culture was to blame. I explained that this argument is like blaming a messenger and we should instead be seeking to pay attention to when a minority tells us that a representation of their group is offensive.

I’m literate at a pretty high level. And as far as I know, I still have all my marbles - I’m not quite that old yet. I don’t actually need a recap.

So with all the dissent that has clearly existed over this character for all these years, why is it only public now? Why is it a big deal now? In the four decades plus that I’ve been on this earth, I’ve seen plenty of things of this nature get press and have action taken against them. Why this character now?

There are multiple characters on this show that could draw fire, and quite easily.

 

[Rhubarb]

Demonstratively untrue. What you’re thinking of is called “white fragility”.

 

[Alex337]

Alex337:

I’m sure it helps that you’ve ignored all the parts where I answered your questions directly

I’ll restate the relevant part to help; you said that PC culture was to blame. I explained that this argument is like blaming a messenger and we should instead be seeking to pay attention to when a minority tells us that a representation of their group is offensive.

I’m literate at a pretty high level. And as far as I know, I still have all my marbles - I’m not quite that old yet. I don’t actually need a recap.

So with all the dissent that has clearly existed over this character for all these years, why is it only public now? Why is it a big deal now? In the four decades plus that I’ve been on this earth, I’ve seen plenty of things of this nature get press and have action taken against them. Why this character now?

I’m sorry, I misunderstood when you quoted only one section and answered as though that was all I had said. I’m glad you knew the rest of my argument but remain unsure why you chose to ignore it at the time.

Now, in terms of “why this character now”; why not? This isn’t actually a new thing. People have been talking about that character for a long time. They got around to making a video about it now, that’s all. I suspect that is in part because it is now easier to make and disseminate such videos due to mass communication, but you would need to ask the maker for the specifics.

So; why should we not listen to minorities about what kinds of portrayals of their group they find offensive?

 

[SuperLuigi]

So; why should we not listen to minorities about what kinds of portrayals of their group they find offensive?

Because AS a minority, I can tell you they don’t speak for all of us. In fact, the loudest voices are often unrepresentative. You need to STOP associating us in terms of a single monolith.

 

[FiveLinden]

Am I the only one surprised that this entire thread has progressed to this point without anyone mentioning the Church’s teaching about human dignity and equality? Not saying what the conclusions would be but surely the Catholics here should be beginning with that?