'The Simpsons' under fire over concerns about racism

[Alex337]

It was very pointed and yet subtle. It was indeed a “smart” answer in the “kiddo mouthing off” sense of the word. Very Bart Simpson, I thought.

But delivered by Lisa…

But again, humour is a subjective thing and I’ve thought the quality of the writing has been going downhill for many years. Though it could just be that the type of humour has been shifting, which is fine.

 

[Pup7]

But delivered by Lisa…

Oh good grief. So what? Enough with the pedantism; you know what I meant. I know who said it - I read it on about ten different pages last night and saw the clip of it. I don’t care if Homer, Marge, or even Apu had said it - you know precisely what I meant.

But again, humour is a subjective thing and I’ve thought the quality of the writing has been going downhill for many years. Though it could just be that the type of humour has been shifting, which is fine.

That “type of humor” has been around for years. It was part of what made SNL prior to about 1997 hilarious. I think the Simpsons thing has run its course and it’s tired, but I don’t think it has anything to do with humor changing.

 

[gracepoole]

Everyone is a caricature on The Simpsons. Drunks, Christians, Scotsmen… The show is built on finding humor in stereotypes.

 

[Alex337]

Alex337:

But delivered by Lisa…

Oh good grief. So what? Enough with the pedantism; you know what I meant. I know who said it - I read it on about ten different pages last night and saw the clip of it. I don’t care if Homer, Marge, or even Apu had said it - you know precisely what I meant.

Sorry, I didn’t mean to cause offense; I was trying to point out one of the reasons I felt the joke fell flat. Characters have their different humour styles and Lisa wasn’t usually that style.

But again, humour is a subjective thing and I’ve thought the quality of the writing has been going downhill for many years. Though it could just be that the type of humour has been shifting, which is fine.

That “type of humor” has been around for years. It was part of what made SNL prior to about 1997 hilarious.

I think SNL prior to 1997 did a little more with their comedy than that joke did. But again, different strokes for different folks. I felt the joke was lazy and fell flat, you didn’t; humour is subjective

 

[HarryStotle]

HarryStotle:

Alex337:

And did you really just try to drag this discussion into a talk on abortion again? Because that is still not the topic.

Perhaps not, but it does add perspective to the topic, if anyone is actually interested in seeing this discussion placed into perspective.

I don’t think it does to be honest. …

You seem to be trying to cry foul on being asked not to derail the topic. If you want to discuss abortions I’m sure there are many threads on this forum to do so, but I don’t see how it relates to the Simpsons.

The thread topic relates to “concerns about racism.” Yet, very little discussion has focused on the nature of racism and how to identify instances of it.

Racism, as the entrenched idea that some or one race(s) is superior to others and ought to be valued or its interests promoted at the expense of other races, is a serious topic.

So, at least two questions might be seen as crucial in this thread, and yet haven’t been adequately addressed, as far as I can tell.

1. Is selecting a non-Indian voice talent to voice an Indian character on a cartoon series an instance of racism? Why or why not?
2. Is stereotyping one or many ethnic groups or social roles as a commentary on, OR to poke fun at social norms, OR for some other end, be permissible? Under what circumstances would it be permissible? Under what circumstances would this qualify as racism?

Addressing those questions might provide for fruitful discussion, but thus far hasn’t.

Let me provide an anology.

Someone starts a thread titled, “Should I buy a red car, a white car or a brown car?”

Or, alternatively: “Should I buy a car built in Germany, Italy, Britain, Sweden, the USA, Korea, Japan or France?”

Now, a whole lot of posters submit their opinions about how colour matters and which colour would be a better choice. Or about how country of origin is important because who actually built the car matters.

Along comes one poster who poses some possible questions, "Why, exactly, does the colour of the car or country of origin matter? Shouldn’t you be more concerned about build quality, reliability, safety, cost of parts, service, warranty, etc.?

In other words shouldn’t the questions of colour or country of origin be seen within the perspective of what a car is, what it is for and its ‘best use’ rather than treated as crucial questions in their own right?

You might complain that by raising questions of build quality, reliability, safety, cost of parts, service, warranty, etc., that poster is merely, “derailing” the thread.

It may appear that way if your sole concern is colour or country of origin, though I would submit that a refusal to put the question in perspective might be symptomatic of not having an adequate grasp of the question itself.

See my point?

 

[Alex337]

Not really; abortion still has nothing to do with this topic.

 

[HarryStotle]

Not really; abortion still has nothing to do with this topic.

Racism has almost nothing to do with colour of skin. Anyone who thinks it does is en par with someone who buys a car exclusively because of its colour. That is not to deny that people exist who are that superficial and unthinking, but most are not. Colour of skin is a stand-in for something far deeper. Ditto with dehumanizing and aborting babies.

 

[Sarcelle]

Isn’t it racist to say that?

 

[JanSobieskiIII]

Everything is racist.

 

[Peaceable]

Newbie here. I hadn’t intended my first post to be here, but here goes. I’m South Asian, and watched my dad lose jobs over people belittling him because of his Apu-like accent. I’ve had people make harassing calls with Apu’s language/accent. I consciously obliterated my accent because of Apu because I didn’t want to lose jobs either. Unlike the author of the National Review, I did come of age when the Simpsons is on. The reason why I and others didn’t speak out, though it bothered us, is that we were either too young (I was in Jr. High), or first generation immigrants too busy making ends meet, there was no social media or organized relevant South Asian groups. The reason why I hesitate to speak out now is that I’m not thrilled to face an onslaught of people saying my and my family’s suffering didn’t exist, that we are “leftists” (ironic, my dad and half my family are Republicans), or just that we plain don’t matter.

But, I’m a mom now with kids who have strong South Asian accents, because they hang out with their grandparents. I don’t want to have to counsel them to sound differently, but I do. I’m speaking up because I would like to hope they didn’t have to face what we did. I’m sad and frustrated that our concerns were blown off as they were by the show.

For those who point to South Asians who are ok with the portrayal— see my comments above. It’s less costly to go with the flow and tell people what they want to hear. It might even be lucrative—financially and with respect to social capital. I’ve certainly said the Apu doesn’t bother me thing, because in the context, it was more prudent to do so. I appreciate Alex’s perspective and for speaking up in ways I often can’t.

 

[Peaceable]

To be clear, I don’t object to assimilating -I have. It’s more the frustration of being harassed if we don’t

 

[Alex337]

Sorry, the two are still not the same. If you want to talk about abortion why not make another thread?

 

[Peaceable]

Thanks for listening. One of the things I really like about CA forums is that there are so many people who actually listen, try to reason, and want to do the right thing, even when there are disagreements. It makes me feel hopeful for the future of our society and the world.

 

[TheNoseKnows]

problematic

white washing

Most Indians don’t really care about a make believe cartoon, the Simpsons have plenty of other stereotypes, like Scottish grounds keeper Willie, which of course you have no issue with because hes white.

 

[Alex337]

Alex337:

problematic

white washing

Most Indians don’t really care about a make believe cartoon, the Simpsons have plenty of other stereotypes, like Scottish grounds keeper Willie, which of course you have no issue with because hes white.

But many do. And it’s important to listen to their thoughts on the matter. Indeed, if it helps, there is someone above in this thread who gave their personal thoughts on the matter.

 

[Augustinian]

But many do. And it’s important to listen to their thoughts on the matter.

The Simpsons program is based upon the portrayal of its characters as stereotypes. Its just what the show is about.

People that are offended by it can achieve immediate relief by not watching it. And if they want to, they can protest with the network to have the show taken off the air.

 

[Alex337]

Alex337:

But many do. And it’s important to listen to their thoughts on the matter.

The Simpsons program is based upon the portrayal of its characters as stereotypes. Its just what the show is about.

People that are offended by it can achieve immediate relief by not watching it. And if they want to, they can protest with the network to have the show taken off the air.

Just because a show is about stereotypes doesn’t mean it is free of criticism. Nor that it should have free reign on racial stereotypes.

And the point of the thread is that folks who found the portrayal to be racist made a film about it in which the interviewed people and put forth their point in a succinct manner.

 

[semper_catholicus]

I don’t know whether or not these claims are unfounded or not, but there are probably better, more uplifting shows to watch than The Simpsons.

 

[semper_catholicus]

Fair enough. I’ve never watched The Simpsons before, so I don’t really know much about them, but I’ve people say what you’ve said before. At least I think I have.