The sin of pride

[Black_Jaque]

It seems like Pride is the most difficult sin to spot because it can be so insidious. When I look around me, most people have the sense to admit they do not deserve heaven. However I see a lot of people who do think they are too good for hell. Is that a sin of pride?

 

[felra]

Black Jaque:

It seems like Pride is the most difficult sin to spot because it can be so insidious. When I look around me, most people have the sense to admit they do not deserve heaven. However I see a lot of people who do think they are too good for hell. Is that a sin of pride?

In an attempt to deflate some of the pride, you could ask these folks, “But does that necessarily mean that you are not bad enough for hell?”

 

[carol_marie]

Black Jaque:

It seems like Pride is the most difficult sin to spot because it can be so insidious. When I look around me, most people have the sense to admit they do not deserve heaven. However I see a lot of people who do think they are too good for hell. Is that a sin of pride?

I would have to agree… no one “deserves” heaven - it’s only through the grace of God that anyone gets to heaven. It’s never because of anything on our part - it’s because of our faith in God’s Son, Jesus Christ who paid the price for our sins. There is a scripture that talks about just that - that we’re saved by the grace of God so no one should boast.

And yes, I realize that we show we have faith by being obedient - doing good works etc. But still - it’s all by the grace of God.

 

[Black_Jaque]

Carol,

But do you think people might be deceiving themselves by paying too much attention to the fact that they don’t deserve heaven, and ignoring the very real possibility that they do deserve hell? It has gotten to the point that people don’t even like to discuss the reality of hell. Even people beginning to deny the existance of hell.

 

[Aquarius]

Black Jaque:

Carol,

But do you think people might be deceiving themselves by paying too much attention to the fact that they don’t deserve heaven, and ignoring the very real possibility that they do deserve hell? It has gotten to the point that people don’t even like to discuss the reality of hell. Even people beginning to deny the existance of hell.

What does the average guy do that deserves unending torture? What in particular does he do that merits that?

 

[Black_Jaque]

What does the average guy do that deserves unending torture? What in particular does he do that merits that?

See what I mean? I’m wondering if the answer to your question is - “the average guy commits the sin of thinking he is too good for hell”. Therefore he grows complacent, and then commits the sin of sloth.

 

[Aquarius]

Black Jaque:

See what I mean? I’m wondering if the answer to your question is - “the average guy commits the sin of thinking he is too good for hell”. Therefore he grows complacent, and then commits the sin of sloth.

And thinking that deserves unending torture?

This reminds me a bit of the Christian denominations who say man is totally depraved. When I ask them individually what they have done today that is totally depraved, they don’t have an answer.

 

[Black_Jaque]

Aquarius,

Please note the emphasis:

I’m *wondering if *the answer to your question is…

I’m not certain. I’m just throwing this out there.

I can see how adopting the “I’m too good for hell” attitude breeds complacency. And I could accept the possiblity that we are just “blind” to the ugliness of an average guy’s sins. Perhaps, if we were to really know God, we would have a profound understanding of just exactly how dispicable one teensy-weensy, little, “God-damn” is.

 

[Aquarius]

Black Jaque:

Aquarius,

Please note the emphasis:

I’m not certain. I’m just throwing this out there.

I can see how adopting the “I’m too good for hell” attitude breeds complacency. And I could accept the possiblity that we are just “blind” to the ugliness of an average guy’s sins. Perhaps, if we were to really know God, we would have a profound understanding of just exactly how dispicable one teensy-weensy, little, “God-damn” is.

Well, in contemplating the existence of hell, I just haven’t yet come up with an action that merits unending torture. Maybe for a while, but not forever.

 

[tdandh26]

Pride is at the root of every sin. Just think about it. It was through pride that Lucifer fell, it was through pride that Adam and Eve fell, etc. No matter what the sin, in some way it begins with pride. Humility in my opinion is the greatest virtue. My fear is that when I become humble is will be proud of my humility.

 

[carol_marie]

Black Jaque:

Carol,

But do you think people might be deceiving themselves by paying too much attention to the fact that they don’t deserve heaven, and ignoring the very real possibility that they do deserve hell? It has gotten to the point that people don’t even like to discuss the reality of hell. Even people beginning to deny the existance of hell.

I think that far too many people live their lives however THEY want - making up their own rules as they go along… whatever feels good to them… that sort of thing - totally ignoring God & His Son Jesus Christ. They fool themselves by thinking… “Well I’m a pretty good person… so I don’t deserve hell.” - meaning what? They don’t kill puppies? Because apart from Jesus - pretty good is still pretty sinful.

And yes - it has gotten to the point that people don’t even acknowledge hell. Our Priest talked about that very thing… that if we are guilty of a mortal sin - despite how “good” we may otherwise be - we need to get ourselves to confession because hell is a very REAL possibilty.

 

[Aquarius]

carol marie:

I think that far too many people live their lives however THEY want - making up their own rules as they go along… whatever feels good to them… that sort of thing - totally ignoring God & His Son Jesus Christ. They fool themselves by thinking… “Well I’m a pretty good person… so I don’t deserve hell.” - meaning what? They don’t kill puppies? Because apart from Jesus - pretty good is still pretty sinful.

And yes - it has gotten to the point that people don’t even acknowledge hell. Our Priest talked about that very thing… that if we are guilty of a mortal sin - despite how “good” we may otherwise be - we need to get ourselves to confession because hell is a very REAL possibilty.

Why is pretty good pretty sinful?

 

[JamesG]

“Pride” is mentioned 46 times in the King James Bible. “Proud” is mentioned 47 times. “Haughty” is mentioned 10 times. A meticulous study of each time these words appear will lead to only one conclusion: They are never spoken of positively, only as sin and evil. Never is it suggested or implied that pride in any form is a virtue.

Many believers have problems getting the humanism they were brought up with out of their hearts. Humanism teaches that pride is a virtue, the Bible teaches it is a sin.

God expects believers to repent (change the way they think) about things. This leads to a change of actions. Instead of being proud, the believer should become humble.

We will never have revival in the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ until we humble ourselves. II Chronicles 7:14 says, “If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.”

Pride is the original sin of Satan (Isaiah 14:12 -15; Ezekiel 28:12,17)

Pride in religion keeps people from humbling themselves before God and getting saved. It has also been the catalyst for many wars.

Pride in children keeps parents from seeing their children’s faults and disciplining and correcting them to make them better.

Pride in self keeps us selfish and self-centered disabling us from enjoying or helping anyone else.

Pride in country keeps us from praying fervently to our God for our nation.

Pride in race or culture makes many prejudiced.

Only God knows how many nations, marriages, families, churches, businesses, lives, etc. have been wrecked by pride. It is something Satan taught us and not the Lord.

Jesus example is quite opposite. Philippians 2:5-8 says, “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.”

 

[carol_marie]

Aquarius:

Why is pretty good pretty sinful?

The Bible says that ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. So even if I think I am a pretty good person - meaning, I’m kind to my kids & I donate food for the poor and I don’t beat up my neighbor, I’m still a sinful person. I don’t always put God first in my life - I lose my temper - I don’t help others when I could - I’m materialistic - whatever… so despite my best efforts, I still need the saving grace of Jesus Christ to cover my sins. What I lack in goodness & holiness - Jesus makes up for.

I’ve heard it explained like this… two men are standing on a dock - both need to jump to God. The first is a really terrible guy - cheated on his wife - stole from his employer - etc. so he can only jump 3 feet. The next guy is a great guy… tried his best to live a moral, honest life… so he can jump 15 feet. The only problem is - God is still a mile away. Jesus Christ is the only one who can bridge that gap. And he offers that gift of grace to everyone who’s willing to put their faith in Him.

Since without Jesus we are nothing - no one should feel “proud.”

 

[Aquarius]

carol marie:

The Bible says that ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. So even if I think I am a pretty good person - meaning, I’m kind to my kids & I donate food for the poor and I don’t beat up my neighbor, I’m still a sinful person. I don’t always put God first in my life - I lose my temper - I don’t help others when I could - I’m materialistic - whatever… so despite my best efforts, I still need the saving grace of Jesus Christ to cover my sins. What I lack in goodness & holiness - Jesus makes up for.

I’ve heard it explained like this… two men are standing on a dock - both need to jump to God. The first is a really terrible guy - cheated on his wife - stole from his employer - etc. so he can only jump 3 feet. The next guy is a great guy… tried his best to live a moral, honest life… so he can jump 15 feet. The only problem is - God is still a mile away. Jesus Christ is the only one who can bridge that gap. And he offers that gift of grace to everyone who’s willing to put their faith in Him.

Since without Jesus we are nothing - no one should feel “proud.”

I would expect everything to fall short of the glory of God. That’s pretty sinful?

What human action deserves unending torture?

 

[carol_marie]

Aquarius:

I would expect everything to fall short of the glory of God. That’s pretty sinful?

What human action deserves unending torture?

Why the focus on the unending torture when heaven is held out for you instead? I spend very little - if any time thinking about why some would have to spend an eternity in hell… I’m always so thankful that despite all of my faults (and there are lots) - God loves me so very much and has sent His only Son to die for me so that I might see heaven. And it’s not just for me - it’s for EVERYONE who puts their faith in Jesus Christ.

I truly believe that those who end up in hell have chosen to go there. They have rejected God over & over again - it’s their choice…

 

[LeahInancsi]

I have a tendancy to think that sinful pride is a kin to arrogance.

Why is it assumed that a proud person becomes complacent and lazy? Perhaps, they have pride in their work, for example, and work harder to maintain that pride and produce a better product.

Is it wrong for me to be proud to be a Catholic?

Am I missing the point?

 

[Aquarius]

carol marie:

Why the focus on the unending torture when heaven is held out for you instead? I spend very little - if any time thinking about why some would have to spend an eternity in hell… I’m always so thankful that despite all of my faults (and there are lots) - God loves me so very much and has sent His only Son to die for me so that I might see heaven. And it’s not just for me - it’s for EVERYONE who puts their faith in Jesus Christ.

I truly believe that those who end up in hell have chosen to go there. They have rejected God over & over again - it’s their choice…

The focus on hell is because that is the direction the discussion took. It was referenced in the first post. Then Black Jaque introduced the idea of people denying the existence of hell.

Is rejecting God an action that deserves unending torture?

 

[Aquarius]

LeahInancsi:

I have a tendancy to think that sinful pride is a kin to arrogance.

Why is it assumed that a proud person becomes complacent and lazy? Perhaps, they have pride in their work, for example, and work harder to maintain that pride and produce a better product.

Is it wrong for me to be proud to be a Catholic?

Am I missing the point?

I think people might mean misplaced pride. For example, I really see no reason to be proud of being a Catholic. It’s easy to be a Catholic, or Hindu, or Mormon. Just ride along with the crowd and say yes at the right times. There is no accomplishment involved.

However, pride in a person’s accomplishments seems very reasonable. If a Catholic worked tirelessly to spread the religion, then I can easily see justifiable pride in that accomplishment. Without accomplishment, there is no basis for pride.

 

[carol_marie]

Aquarius:

The focus on hell is because that is the direction the discussion took. It was referenced in the first post. Then Black Jaque introduced the idea of people denying the existence of hell.

Is rejecting God an action that deserves unending torture?

I reread the original question… you are right - Black Jaque did introduce the subject of hell - sorry

Regarding your question - is rejecting God an action that deserves unending torture? I guess the only answer I have to that is that we aren’t God - He makes the rules - and there are only two places that people end up for all eternity - heaven or hell. Heaven is for those who’ve trusted in God - love Him - obey Him etc. and Hell is for those who’ve knowingly rejected Him. The good news is that throughout our lives God calls us to Him - it’s never to late to receive His forgiveness & love - but He won’t MAKE anyone love Him - that’s the freewill part. It’s up to the individual - so if someone has made up his mind to reject God - never wavering - then actually he’s chosen Hell for himself.

This is the basic message I’ve understood from years of Bible study - I am certain there are others here who can put it in better theological terms…