The sin that cannot be forgiven

[Thankful10]

I am a Catholic, obedient (within my poor human limits) to the Magisterium. I have neither the scholarship nor the context to interpret Scripture on my own.

This is the very essence of obedience.

And please let me remind you that the Church pre-dates the Bible.

Remember the people who are telling you how to understand the written Word of God, are the same people who are telling you that your church is the one established by Jesus.
Also one doesn’t come to know God, through the teachings of man. Jesus gave us his Holy Spirit to teach us to know him.
(1 John 2: 27) “But you have not lost the anointing that he gave you, and you do not need anyone to teach you; the anointing he gave teaches you everything: you are anointed with truth, not with a lie, and as it has taught you, so you must stay in him.”
Have you ever asked the Holy Spirit/Jesus if what you have been taught about God is right or wrong?
(1 Corinthians 2:716)”The hidden wisdom of God which we teach in our mysteries is the wisdom that God predestined to be for our glory before the ages began. It is a wisdom that none of the masters of this age have ever known, or they would not have crucified the Lord of Glory, we teach what scripture called the things that no eye has seen and no ear has heard, things beyond the mind of man, all that God has prepared for those who love him.These are the very things that God has revealed to us through the Spirit, for the Spirit reaches the depths of everything, even the depths of God After all, the depths of a man can only be known by his own spirit, not by any other man, and in the same way the depths of God can only be known by the Spirit of God. Now instead of the spirit of the world, we have received the Spirit that comes from God, to teach us to understand the gifts that he has given us. Therefore we teach, not in the way in which philosophy is taught, but in the way that the Spirit teaches us: we teach spiritual things spiritually. An unspiritual person is one who does not accept anything of the Spirit of God: he sees it all as nonsense; it is beyond his understanding because it can only be understood by means of the Spirit. A spiritual man, on the other hand, is able to judge the value of everything, and his own value is not to be judged by other men. As scripture says;’ who can know the mind of the Lord, so who can teach him?’ But we are those who have the mind of Christ.”

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

As an obedient (within my weak human limits) Catholic I utterly disagree with you.

Tradition, Scripture, Magisterium. That’s the end of it for me. Else, each person is his own church, and lacking the background, wisdom and knowledge to interpret Scripture, inevitably strays from the truth.

 

[sidbrown]

Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is nothing else but final impenitance.

Yes, that’s right. If you refuse to be sorry for the wrong you have committed, then how would it be possible for this to be forgiven?

 

[Monica4316]

I have a question…

Sometimes, when I hear something really bad (like a swear word) it tends to stay in my mind and the devil later uses it as a temptation…
well a long time ago I heard something HORRIBLE about the Holy Spirit, and then it started playing over and over in my mind, and I felt like I’M thinking it. It was so scary cause I thought I had committed the unforgiveable sin. I talked to a priest about this and he said I hadn’t. I felt so relieved!

but then I see this quote and it made me feel afraid ?

Three meanings have been given to the sin against the Holy Ghost. For the earlier doctors, viz. Athanasius (Super Matth. xii, 32), Hilary (Can. xii in Matth.), Ambrose (Super Luc. xii, 10), Jerome (Super Matth. xii), and Chrysostom (Hom. xli in Matth.), say that the sin against the Holy Ghost is literally to utter a blasphemy against the Holy Spirit,

I’d say those words were a blasphemy, but I never said them out loud and I never meant them I fought really hard to keep these thoughts out of my mind, but it was really hard.

what do you all think?

 

[Monica4316]

So it is OK with Catholics if the Church does not teach what scripture says?

the Catholic Church only ever teaches the truth and what’s in Scripture, and it interprets the Bible. We don’t accept individual interpretations that all conflict one another…

even the Bible says, the “church is the pillar and foundation of truth”

 

[sidbrown]

I have a question…

Sometimes, when I hear something really bad (like a swear word) it tends to stay in my mind and the devil later uses it as a temptation…
well a long time ago I heard something HORRIBLE about the Holy Spirit, and then it started playing over and over in my mind, and I felt like I’M thinking it. It was so scary cause I thought I had committed the unforgiveable sin. I talked to a priest about this and he said I hadn’t. I felt so relieved!

but then I see this quote and it made me feel afraid ?

I’d say those words were a blasphemy, but I never said them out loud and I never meant them I fought really hard to keep these thoughts out of my mind, but it was really hard.

what do you all think?

I think you should follow what your priest said and not worry about a temptation which you resisted.

 

[Reuben_J]

Blaspheming against the Holy Spirit?
To me blaspheming the Holy Spirit means, among other things, lying to the Holy Spirit.
One way a person can lie to the Holy Spirit is the way Ananias and Sapphira did in (Acts 5:1-11).
A person who has been given the Holy Spirit, has come to know God, and is being led by the Holy Spirit is telling God that he or she love him. When that person deliberately commits a sin he or she is lying to the Holy Spirit. One who knows God and loves God will not sin.
(1 John 3: 3 - 9) “Surely everyone who entertains this hope must purify himself, must try to be as pure as Christ. Any one who sins at all breaks the law, because to sin is to break the law. Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin; **anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him. ** My children do not let anyone lead you astray; to live a holy life is to be holy just as He is holy; to lead a sinful life is to belong to the Devil, since the Devil was a sinner from the beginning. It was to undo all that the Devil has done that the Son of God appeared. No one who has been begotten by God sins: because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”

The verse in the OP is generally understood as attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to the Devil and by doing so refuse to accept the mercy and the forgiveness of God. Only in this situation your sin cannot be forgiven.

Lying and all sins of transgression of God’s Commandments can be forgiven because God is a forgiving God.

I think this poster mentioned it earlier on what I want to say:

NPC:

Not so. I simply started my post by giving the Church’s teaching on blasphemy in general - which, of course, does include taking God’s name in vain. I addressed the specific teaching of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit afterwards.
As Linda Marie rightly said, that passage from Scripture - as is always the case - must be taken in context. The pharisees were indeed guilty of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit because they attributed the “fruits” of Christ’s ministry to the devil instead of the Holy Spirit.

Christ himself said it: “Every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.”

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I have a question…

Sometimes, when I hear something really bad (like a swear word) it tends to stay in my mind and the devil later uses it as a temptation…
well a long time ago I heard something HORRIBLE about the Holy Spirit, and then it started playing over and over in my mind, and I felt like I’M thinking it. It was so scary cause I thought I had committed the unforgiveable sin. I talked to a priest about this and he said I hadn’t. I felt so relieved!

but then I see this quote and it made me feel afraid ?

I’d say those words were a blasphemy, but I never said them out loud and I never meant them I fought really hard to keep these thoughts out of my mind, but it was really hard.

what do you all think?

I think your priest was right; rely on him, rely on God’s mercy toward the afflicted (EVERYONE has stuff playing in her head she would rather not, I think it’s human) and each time stuff like that plays, say a St. Michael or Hail Mary to counteract.

or else get a really annoying but innocuous song stuck in your head

 

[Thankful10]

the Catholic Church only ever teaches the truth and what’s in Scripture, and it interprets the Bible. We don’t accept individual interpretations that all conflict one another…

even the Bible says, the “church is the pillar and foundation of truth”

Let me quote you just a few verses that the Catholic Church does not teach correctly or at all. I will start with Just verses that pertain to this thread.
(1 John 3: 3 - 9) “Surely everyone who entertains this hope must purify himself, must try to be as pure as Christ. Any one who sins at all breaks the law, because to sin is to break the law. Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him. My children do not let anyone lead you astray; to live a holy life is to be holy just as He is holy; to lead a sinful life is to belong to the Devil, since the Devil was a sinner from the beginning. It was to undo all that the Devil has done that the Son of God appeared. No one who has been begotten by God sins: because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”

John tells us that a spiritual person will not sin. The Church does not teach what John said.

Now Paul tells us what people who say they are Christians and still commit sins are.

(1 Corinthians 3:1-3) “Brothers, I myself was unable to speak to you as people of the Spirit; I treated you as sensual men, still infants in Christ. What I fed you with was milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it; and indeed, you are still not ready for it since you are still unspiritual. Isn’t that obvious from all the jealousy and wrangling that there is among you, from the way that you go on behaving like ordinary people? “

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

You certainly seem in a hurry to correct Holy Mother Church.

Do you have a point? Can it be conveyed without church-bashing or quoting Scripture?

 

[Thankful10]

You certainly seem in a hurry to correct Holy Mother Church.

Do you have a point? Can it be conveyed without church-bashing or quoting Scripture?

Yes I have a point, and what I have posted is not church bashing. I am trying to share that Christians are dead to sin. A Christian who sins is not spiritual and does not know God. Now because the Catholic Church doesn’t teach that truth does not make for me bashing the Church. I posted a Catholic saint who said the same thing about sin.
Paul said Christians who sin are babies in Christ.
I also gave a good description of what constituted blaspheme of the Holy Spirit, and that made everyone come to the defense of the Catholic Church.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Yes I have a point, and what I have posted is not church bashing. I am trying to share that Christians are dead to sin. A Christian who sins is not spiritual and does not know God. Now because the Catholic Church doesn’t teach that truth does not make for me bashing the Church. I posted a Catholic saint who said the same thing about sin.
Paul said Christians who sin are babies in Christ.
I also gave a good description of what constituted blaspheme of the Holy Spirit, and that made everyone come to the defense of the Catholic Church.

As well we should.

Even great Saints sinned. We are ALL sinners. The only perfect ones were Blessed Mary Ever Virgin and her Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ.

I don’t know about you but I am nowhere near a saint, just an average person. And that is why Holy Mother Church is needed: as a hospital for sinners.

Thank God!

 

[Thankful10]

As well we should.

Even great Saints sinned. We are ALL sinners. The only perfect ones were Blessed Mary Ever Virgin and her Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ.

I don’t know about you but I am nowhere near a saint, just an average person. And that is why Holy Mother Church is needed: as a hospital for sinners.

Thank God!

You make a statement that all people sin, and that is right, but after receiving the Holy Spirit and coming to know God if one deliberately commits a sin they will go to Hell.

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

 

[katrntogo]

You make a statement that all people sin, and that is right, but after receiving the Holy Spirit and coming to know God if one deliberately commits a sin they will go to Hell.

So, if you have received the Holy Spirit, are you saying that you no longer sin? Or are you going to Hell by your statement?

Even Peter sinned & did not wish to & God knows that I don’t want to but still fail. I believe we are forgiven if we are sincerely sorrowful for our sins.

 

[sidbrown]

As well we should.

Even great Saints sinned. We are ALL sinners. The only perfect ones were Blessed Mary Ever Virgin and her Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ.

I don’t know about you but I am nowhere near a saint, just an average person. And that is why Holy Mother Church is needed: as a hospital for sinners.

Thank God!

This is not true. There are others who have not sinned. For example, a baby who has been killed in a train accident at the age of three years old.

 

[Thankful10]

So, if you have received the Holy Spirit, are you saying that you no longer sin? Or are you going to Hell by your statement?

Even Peter sinned & did not wish to & God knows that I don’t want to but still fail. I believe we are forgiven if we are sincerely sorrowful for our sins.

Living a sinless life does not happen because a person wills it to happen. Living sinless is becoming spiritual and coming to know God.

Jesus came here to defeat Satan/sin. His people will not sin. His people are guided by the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 5:16“Let me put it like this if you are guided by the Spirit you will be in no danger of yielding to self-indulgence…”.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

You make a statement that all people sin, and that is right, but after receiving the Holy Spirit and coming to know God if one deliberately commits a sin they will go to Hell.

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

Even IF you are correct: that’s why there is the wonderful Sacrament of Confession. There is no such thing as a sinless life with the exception of Jesus our Lord and His Blessed Mother.

We speak of adults here, and you know it. Why does my obedience to Holy Mother Church bother you so much?

 

[Thankful10]

Even IF you are correct: that’s why there is the wonderful Sacrament of Confession. There is no such thing as a sinless life with the exception of Jesus our Lord and His Blessed Mother.

We speak of adults here, and you know it. Why does my obedience to Holy Mother Church bother you so much?

You must not have read the verse that I posted (Hebrews 10:26-31). It tells us that one who knows God will sin no more. It might help you if you read (1 John 3: 3 - 9) “Surely everyone who entertains this hope must purify himself, must try to be as pure as Christ. **Any one who sins at all breaks the law, because to sin is to break the law. Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him. ** My children do not let anyone lead you astray; to live a holy life is to be holy just as He is holy; to lead a sinful life is to belong to the Devil, since the Devil was a sinner from the beginning. It was to undo all that the Devil has done that the Son of God appeared. No one who has been begotten by God sins: because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”
I believe you think because all men have sinned, that means that Satan has won, and man will just keep on being slaves of Satan/Sin.
You should realize that Jesus came here to defeat Satan/Sin. Jesus gave us the tools to defeat Satan. Yet Satan has convinced people that they can’t live a sinless life.

 

[katrntogo]

Thankful10, you didn’t answer my questions: “So, if you have received the Holy Spirit, are you saying that you no longer sin? Or are you going to Hell by your statement?” Or are you afraid to, because if you answer one way, you will prove your posts wrong & if you answer another, you will be dishonest (& therefore sinning)? & no, I am not gloating because you sin, I wish none of us would sin, but we are human until we are born again at our death from this life.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Kindly answer my question without re-quoting your long passages of Scripture: why does my obedience to Holy Mother Church bother you?

We have Reconciliation precisely because the only people who were capable of sinless life are Our Lord Jesus Christ and our Mother, Blessed Mary.

Your assertion displays both despair and presumption against God’s mercy. (Any other Catholics, feel free to correct these terms).