The sin that cannot be forgiven

[Monica4316]

I think you should follow what your priest said and not worry about a temptation which you resisted.

I think your priest was right; rely on him, rely on God’s mercy toward the afflicted (EVERYONE has stuff playing in her head she would rather not, I think it’s human) and each time stuff like that plays, say a St. Michael or Hail Mary to counteract.

or else get a really annoying but innocuous song stuck in your head

thanks!

Let me quote you just a few verses that the Catholic Church does not teach correctly or at all.

well I believe that the Church teaches EVERYTHING correctly and this I’ll always believe…

I will start with Just verses that pertain to this thread.
(1 John 3: 3 - 9) “Surely everyone who entertains this hope must purify himself, must try to be as pure as Christ. Any one who sins at all breaks the law, because to sin is to break the law. Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him. My children do not let anyone lead you astray; to live a holy life is to be holy just as He is holy; to lead a sinful life is to belong to the Devil, since the Devil was a sinner from the beginning. It was to undo all that the Devil has done that the Son of God appeared. No one who has been begotten by God sins: because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”

John tells us that a spiritual person will not sin. The Church does not teach what John said.

Now Paul tells us what people who say they are Christians and still commit sins are.

(1 Corinthians 3:1-3) “Brothers, I myself was unable to speak to you as people of the Spirit; I treated you as sensual men, still infants in Christ. What I fed you with was milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it; and indeed, you are still not ready for it since you are still unspiritual. Isn’t that obvious from all the jealousy and wrangling that there is among you, from the way that you go on behaving like ordinary people? “

You’re saying that true Christians do not sin… let me ask you a question: do you sin?

the Bible also says that if you think you do not sin, the truth is not in you

we don’t stop sinning once we become Christian!

when it says “anyone who lives in God does not sin” it’s saying the truth, but we DON’T always live in God. When we sin mortally, we leave His grace, leave Him, and need to come back through Confession. That’s why it’s there… because we don’t become perfect once we begin believing in God. Yes we should TRY to become perfect, but it’s a process. So many people have left their Christian faith precisely because of this teaching you’re describing here - that “if they sin, they weren’t saved to begin with” etc. They fall into despair and lose their faith. But in the Catholic Church, if you sin, God accepts you back with open arms. I highly disagree with you… I think you’re misundestanding those verses, and you’re reading them in isolation from other verses, and out of context.

God bless

 

[Thankful10]

Kindly answer my question without re-quoting your long passages of Scripture: why does my obedience to Holy Mother Church bother you?

We have Reconciliation precisely because the only people who were capable of sinless life are Our Lord Jesus Christ and our Mother, Blessed Mary.

Your assertion displays both despair and presumption against God’s mercy. (Any other Catholics, feel free to correct these terms).

Do you think that your church has the right to ignore the Written Word of God? If you do then we can’t discuss right or wrong.
You believe one can’t live a sinless life, scripture tells us differently. Your only defense is what the Church has told you.
The Word of God says that a person who is spiritual is dead to sin. Scripture also says if one sins they don’t know God or have never seen God.
You would prefer to believe what man/church has taught you. Then letting the Jesus/Holy Spirit teach you using the written Word of God.
I have even quoted one of your churches saints that say I am right. Yet you keep on insisting only Jesus and Mary could live sinless, Why? Who told you that was true?

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Do you think that your church has the right to ignore the Written Word of God? If you do then we can’t discuss right or wrong.
You believe one can’t live a sinless life, scripture tells us differently. Your only defense is what the Church has told you.
The Word of God says that a person who is spiritual is dead to sin. Scripture also says if one sins they don’t know God or have never seen God.
You would prefer to believe what man/church has taught you. Then letting the Jesus/Holy Spirit teach you using the written Word of God.
I have even quoted one of your churches saints that say I am right. Yet you keep on insisting only Jesus and Mary could live sinless, Why? Who told you that was true?

Holy Mother Church pre-dates the Bible by about a hundred years. This is why Sola Scriptura ultimately fails, because it makes each man his own little church (the sin of Pride).

Your quotes do not say what you may assume they say. You and I both lack the depth of knowledge and context of language, history, and tradition to interpret Scripture.

Humans cannot refrain from sin by their own power, even the greatest saints. Hence Reconciliation. Surely versed in Scripture as you are, you know the tale of the Prodigal Son and the workers who came late to the vineyard.

Presumption and despair. Sins in themselves. Perhaps Satan is misleading you here in telling you that people can refrain from sin if they love The Holy Spirit.

God have mercy on us all. 'Cause I need it!

 

[katrntogo]

Thankful10, you didn’t answer my questions: “So, if you have received the Holy Spirit, are you saying that you no longer sin? Or are you going to Hell by your statement?” Or are you afraid to, because if you answer one way, you will prove your posts wrong & if you answer another, you will be dishonest (& therefore sinning)? & no, I am not gloating because you sin, I wish none of us would sin, but we are human until we are born again at our death from this life.

Thankful10, still no answer…

 

[Thankful10]

Thankful10, still no answer…

Scripture tell us that people who know God do not sin. I know God, Jesus has called me by name. I do not deliberately commit sin. I haven’t for over thirty years. If I would deliberately commit a sin I would go to Hell. Now do you think there could be anything in this world worth enough to go to Hell for?
I have posted the writings of a Catholic saint who also said the same thing I have just written.

 

[sidbrown]

Scripture tell us that people who know God do not sin.

This doesn’t seem right, because some of the greatest Saints have sinned.

 

[Monica4316]

I sin every day, and am tempted almost constantly these days. I’d go to hell if it wasn’t for God, who in His Mercy, provided me with the opportunity to go to Confession. If it wasn’t for Confession, I would be lost.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Scripture tell us that people who know God do not sin. I know God, Jesus has called me by name. I do not deliberately commit sin. I haven’t for over thirty years. If I would deliberately commit a sin I would go to Hell. Now do you think there could be anything in this world worth enough to go to Hell for?
I have posted the writings of a Catholic saint who also said the same thing I have just written.

I’m pleased to make the acquaintance of the one sinless human apart from Mary Immaculate and Christ our Lord.

Since you understand Scripture as not even the Magisterium does, let alone the rest of us sinners, can you tell us: what is a sin? How do you define it? Determine it?

Is it you alone who defines and determines what sin is? How do you distinguish between mortal and venial? What criteria do you use? Define how you use the term deliberate.

And if you do happen to sin, what then? Straight to Hell? Then do you discount Divine Mercy? The Sacrament of Confession?

And the Scripture about the Prodigal Son? The workers who came late to the vineyard yet received a full day’s wages? How do you explain that?

 

[Thankful10]

I’m pleased to make the acquaintance of the one sinless human apart from Mary Immaculate and Christ our Lord.

Since you understand Scripture as not even the Magisterium does, let alone the rest of us sinners, can you tell us: what is a sin? How do you define it? Determine it?

Is it you alone who defines and determines what sin is? How do you distinguish between mortal and venial? What criteria do you use? Define how you use the term deliberate.

And if you do happen to sin, what then? Straight to Hell? Then do you discount Divine Mercy? The Sacrament of Confession?

And the Scripture about the Prodigal Son? The workers who came late to the vineyard yet received a full day’s wages? How do you explain that?

You know what is really sad? What is sad; is the fact that you are so amazed that a Christian is living a sinless life. All Christians should be living sinless lives.
(1 Corinthians 5:11) “What I wrote was that you should not associate with a brother Christian who is leading an immoral life, or is a usurer, or idolatrous, or a slander, or a drunkard, or is dishonest; you should not even eat a meal with people like that.”
Paul mentions a few sins. But a sin is doing something that one knows is wrong and does it any way.

 

[Monica4316]

the Saints considered themselves the greatest sinners.

 

[Monica4316]

St Paul said;

I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do–this I keep on doing.

 

[Thankful10]

St Paul said;

I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do–this I keep on doing.

Please! Have you ever read the rest of what Paul wrote in Romans? It doesn’t take much smarts to see that Paul was sharing Just how impossible it was not sin, if one doesn’t have the Holy Spirit guiding him or her. In Romans eight he explains just that. Maybe you didn’t read what he wrote after Romans seven.

 

[Monica4316]

It doesn’t take much smarts to see that Paul was sharing Just how impossible it was not sin, if one doesn’t have the Holy Spirit guiding him or her.

IF the Holy Spirit is guiding them.

We don’t always follow the Holy Spirit. We still have much ‘self’ that we must die to. The times when we follow the Holy Spirit, and LET Him lead us, and cooperate with grace, we don’t sin. When we don’t, we sin… and so leave God and aren’t in His grace anymore. This happens to everyone and that’s why there’s Confession. Even if someone doesn’t commit wilful sins, they still need to repent of venial sins.

Thinking that “True Christians don’t sin” can be very damaging… I’ve known people who left Christianity because they were told if they were “truly saved” they wouldnt’ sin any more, and they fell into despair… and left their faith instead of coming back to God’s mercy

the person who doesn’t struggle with temptations… the person who considers themselves to be too strong for sin… and thinks that they’re unable to sin… that’s very dangerous for their soul. We must understand we’re weak, that’s why we need grace.

 

[Thankful10]

IF the Holy Spirit is guiding them.

We don’t always follow the Holy Spirit. We still have much ‘self’ that we must die to. The times when we follow the Holy Spirit, and LET Him lead us, and cooperate with grace, we don’t sin. When we don’t, we sin… and so leave God and aren’t in His grace anymore. This happens to everyone and that’s why there’s Confession. Even if someone doesn’t commit wilful sins, they still need to repent of venial sins.

Thinking that “True Christians don’t sin” can be very damaging… I’ve known people who left Christianity because they were told if they were “truly saved” they wouldnt’ sin any more, and they fell into despair… and left their faith instead of coming back to God’s mercy

the person who doesn’t struggle with temptations… the person who considers themselves to be too strong for sin… and thinks that they’re unable to sin… that’s very dangerous for their soul. We must understand we’re weak, that’s why we need grace.

If a person has the Holy Spirit guiding him or her that person is saying: Yes! I am a slave of Jesus, and I love Jesus. The Holy Spirit gives that person the grace to always follow Jesus.
If a person who is being led by the Holy Spirit does deliberately commit a sin that person will go to Hell. That person lied to the Holy Spirit. When a person sins they are doing what Satan wants and become slaves of Satan.
(Acts 5:1-11) The Fraud of Ananias and Sapphira

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

You know what is really sad? What is sad; is the fact that you are so amazed that a Christian is living a sinless life. All Christians should be living sinless lives.
(1 Corinthians 5:11) “What I wrote was that you should not associate with a brother Christian who is leading an immoral life, or is a usurer, or idolatrous, or a slander, or a drunkard, or is dishonest; you should not even eat a meal with people like that.”
Paul mentions a few sins. But a sin is doing something that one knows is wrong and does it any way.

I could not disagree more.

Can you reply in your own words, without quoting Scripture, which none of us is equipped to correctly interpret?

Catholic Christians, having the fullness of truth, understand that there is a difference between MORTAL and venial sin. And most of us do not commit mortal sin. When we do, there is Reconciliation.

Many great saints Confessed every day. Every single day. They sinned, each and every one of them. Yet they became saints!

How sad that a Christian would turn his back on this gift from God. And how sad that a Christian would commit the sin of presumption, and of rejecting the mercy of God.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Monica, I am with you: I believe Holy Mother Church teaches everything correctly, that I am a sinner in need of God’s Grace (the true meaning of ‘poor in spirit’).

Let not your heart be troubled by the unhappy and condemning of the world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor Kenshin

"I think your priest was right; rely on him, rely on God’s mercy toward the afflicted (EVERYONE has stuff playing in her head she would rather not, I think it’s human) and each time stuff like that plays, say a St. Michael or Hail Mary to counteract.

or else get a really annoying but innocuous song stuck in your head "

thanks!

I highly recommend the theme song to Phineas and Ferb.

 

[Thankful10]

I could not disagree more.

Can you reply in your own words, without quoting Scripture, which none of us is equipped to correctly interpret?

Catholic Christians, having the fullness of truth, understand that there is a difference between MORTAL and venial sin. And most of us do not commit mortal sin. When we do, there is Reconciliation.

Many great saints Confessed every day. Every single day. They sinned, each and every one of them. Yet they became saints!

How sad that a Christian would turn his back on this gift from God. And how sad that a Christian would commit the sin of presumption, and of rejecting the mercy of God.

Are you telling me that you can’t read scripture and understand what it says? Scripture is the written Word of God. If Jesus spoke to you would you need some one else to tell you what he said?
You can believe what man wrote about saints, but can’t believe what the Holy Spirit wrote about Jesus?
If a person comes to know God, and the only way one can come to know God is to have the Holy Spirit teach and guide him or her, that person will not deliberately commit a sin.
When a person comes to know God there is so much love and fear of losing that love, to actually be willing to lose that love for some self-indulgence is unthinkable.
You talk about God’s mercy, but you forget about all the people he killed for disobeying him.
(1 Corinthians 10:6-13) “These things all happened as warnings’ for us, not to have the wicked lusts for forbidden things that they had. Do not become idolaters as some of them did, for scripture says: After sitting down to eat and drink, the people got up to amuse themselves. We must never fall into sexual immorality: some of them did, and twenty-three thousand met their downfall in one day. We are not to put the Lord to the test: some of them did and they were killed by snakes. You must never complain: some of them did, and they were killed by the Destroyer. All this happened to them as a warning, and it was written down to be a lesson for us who are living at the end of the age. The man who thinks he is safe must be careful that he does not fall. The trials that you have had to bear are no more than people normally have. You can trust God not to let you be tried beyond your strength, and with any trial he will give you a way out of it and the strength to bear it.”

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

We lack the knowledge to self-interpret Scripture.

Jesus and His Apostles spoke in a different language TO different groups of people, and they used many different references, story types, and cultural types; this is why the Magisterium is essential.

It’s bordering on the sin of Pride to state otherwise.

What sort of witnesses would we be if we ran around boasting that we are sinless, and, moreover, did not need God’s grace, even when it is readily available?

Indeed, He sent His only Son to redeem us. What a slap in the face to reject that.

What set you against Holy Mother Church in the first place?

 

[Thankful10]

We lack the knowledge to self-interpret Scripture.

Jesus and His Apostles spoke in a different language TO different groups of people, and they used many different references, story types, and cultural types; this is why the Magisterium is essential.So the “Magisterium” is a better teacher than the Holy Spirit/Jesus?
It’s bordering on the sin of Pride to state otherwise.

What sort of witnesses would we be if we ran around boasting that we are sinless, and, moreover, did not need God’s grace, even when it is readily available?**Who ever said one could be sinless without the grace given to them by God? **
Indeed, He sent His only Son to redeem us. What a slap in the face to reject that.

What set you against Holy Mother Church in the first place?

I am not against the Catholic Church. I am trying to help the Church.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I am not against the Catholic Church. I am trying to help the Church.

By turning people against it?

Anti-Catholics have been ‘helping’ us like that for centuries. Funny that we’re still here, while other sects come and go.

Blessed Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!