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TiggerS
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Quoting nameeta
TS
Agree.
Agree again.
Agree
TS
- Status
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TiggerS
Guest
I experienced things differently and am now 65 years of age. After my marriage was annuled at 34yrs of age, I embraced with spiritual advice private vows and particular lifestyle of radical Gospel commitment which I had already begun to live. I sought annulment on spiritual advice in order to be completely free to embrace private vows. In my early forties, I entered monastic life feeling that I may have a call to this life and this too was with spiritual direction. I left of my own accord realizing that my call was to the private vows and the particular way of life I had initially adopted and this has persevered to this day and with spiritual direction. I have never looked back. After leaving monastic life I was absolutely sure of my own personal call and vocation. I experienced a call to the single celibate lay state and a particular way of Gospel living. Undoubtedly, I would have not been able to live the lifestyle I do in any form of religious life of which I am aware. I have letter on diocesan letterhead from my Archbishop at the time, which I treasure, affirming my choice of private vows in a particular way of life Gospel orientated.
Vocation comes from “vocare” to call and it means “to call” and our Baptism is a vocation. At one time in the past only vocations to religious life, consecrated virginity, the eremitical or hermit life and the priesthood were termed “vocations” in our common Catholic language. That is, common Catholic understanding at that point meant some sort of consecration formally by The Church into that way of life. Very much so post V2, the Sacrament of Marriage was included as a “vocation” in our common Catholic language. Nowadays the single celibate lay state is becoming accepted in our common Catholic language as a potential vocation or call from God “for the sake of The Kingdom”, which indeed it can be. Vatican2 also strongly emphasised that our Baptism is a vocation and call to follow Christ and His Gospel.
It probably all boils down to what we commonly understand “vocation” as meaning and what we commonly mean when we say “vocation”.
The Catholic Dictionary defines “Vocation” as follows:
therealpresence.org/cgi-bin/getdefinition.pl
**VOCATION. **A call from God to a distinctive state of life, in which the person can reach holiness. The Second Vatican Council made it plain that there is a “Universal call vocatio] to holiness in the Church” (Lumen Gentium, 39). (Etym. Latin vocatio, a calling, summoning; from vocare, to call.)
If we want to understand the vocation within the lay state, the CCC puts things this way:
**898 **“By reason of their special vocation it belongs to the laity to seek the kingdom of God by engaging in temporal affairs and directing them according to God’s will. . . . It pertains to them in a special way so to illuminate and order all temporal things with which they are closely associated that these may always be effected and grow according to Christ and maybe to the glory of the Creator and Redeemer.”
And for a fuller understanding of the above, Pope John Paul II in Christifideles Laici enlarged our understanding for us: vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_jp-ii_exh_30121988_christifideles-laici_en.html
“Along the same line the Second Vatican Council states: “This lay spirituality should take its particular character from the circumstances of one’s state in life (married and familylife, celibacy, widowhood), from one’s state of health and from one’s professional and social activity. All should not cease to develop earnestly the qualities and talents bestowed on them in accord with these conditions of life and should make use of the gifts which they have received from the Holy Spirit”(208)”
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TiggerS
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Of real interest to me are the secular institutes that are springing up in The Church: doihaveavocation.com/blog/archives/90
Those in secular institutes are formally consecrated by The Church and are a consecrated way of life.
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TiggerS
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Of interest too although still in very early stages of my understanding of what is involved and any sort of discernment with spiritual direction, I have been invited by a religious order and under formalized private vows under the umbnrella of their religious order, retaining my lay status, with an agreed rule of life and my current lifestyle to align myself with them. I would be living separately as now and not in community, although in close relationship with the community. There are distinct broad similarities in our charism and the potential to develop my own lifestyle further. I have had very close contact with this religious order over the past 10 years.
Each stage of my own journey has spoken very clearly to the next stage, informing it, and linking distinct stages into the one ongoing journey of my life - this has really fascinated as I reflect back in hindsight and brought much joy and conviction of being led by God through the journey of my life although there have been very dark and troubling times/suffering in places and may be more ahead - the unknown future.
Lead kindly light amid the encircling gloom.
Lead thou me on;
The night is dark, and I am far from home;
Lead thou me on;
Keep thou my feet; I do not ask to see
The distant scene; one step is enough for me.
(John Henry Newman)
Each stage of my own journey has spoken very clearly to the next stage, informing it, and linking distinct stages into the one ongoing journey of my life - this has really fascinated as I reflect back in hindsight and brought much joy and conviction of being led by God through the journey of my life although there have been very dark and troubling times/suffering in places and may be more ahead - the unknown future.
Lead kindly light amid the encircling gloom.
Lead thou me on;
The night is dark, and I am far from home;
Lead thou me on;
Keep thou my feet; I do not ask to see
The distant scene; one step is enough for me.
(John Henry Newman)
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TiggerS
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Nameeta
Reference to your Post here: forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8251380&postcount=39
Nameeta
Really interesting blog and much in it - much food for thought and careful reflection! Worth the read. A really amazing and unique blog and so much covered in relatively few and concise, direct, wording, I thought. I am going to print it and put it in my binder for spiritual reading and careful prayerful reflection.
Thank you very much indeed for sharing - TS
Blog address: ocvnewevangelisation.blogspot…ntial-for.html
Reference to your Post here: forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8251380&postcount=39
Nameeta
Really interesting blog and much in it - much food for thought and careful reflection! Worth the read. A really amazing and unique blog and so much covered in relatively few and concise, direct, wording, I thought. I am going to print it and put it in my binder for spiritual reading and careful prayerful reflection.
Thank you very much indeed for sharing - TS
Blog address: ocvnewevangelisation.blogspot…ntial-for.html
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TiggerS
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I must admit having read only the entry on your blog connected to the link you shared, Nameeta, and given it some thought altough I plan to read it again with more care and prayer, that I cannot think in the terms that you present, but this is just me quite personally. I do not dispute any of your concepts at all and am unfamiliar with much, if not all, of the theology connected to the consecration of virgins and therefore cannot really comment - nor do I think that being who I am I can think in the terms you present. Just me!
In my own personal thinking, we are all loved equally and uniquely personally by God and we all, sinners that we are, will enter Heaven through God’s Loving Mercy alone. We are all sinners - some led via this path, some by that and God gifts all the Graces necessary to travel the path along which He leads. And we all witness, no matter our personal vocation, to some aspect of the truths of our Faith according to the Graces received. I think that there are far more grave matter issues than just the sexual and this is an obvious I know. There are far more potentially sinful issues than sexual issues - and sins against Charity are the worst of all. If, as St. Paul tells us, Charity is the greatest virtue, then sins against Charity are the worst - God after all is Love. And of course, sins against purity can be a serious failure in the Love of God - and of neighbour.
The return of the repentant sinner is the most powerful witness of all to the all embracing Loving Mercy of God that excludes none and nothing. It is a beautiful and outstanding witness to God’s Loving Mercy - and over which the whole of Heaven rejoices, Jesus has told us. This is wondrous not only that the sinner has returned, but that he or she has given such outstanding powerful witness to the Glory of God in His Loving All Embracing Mercy. And interestingly, a witness that only the repentant sinner can give!
Just me!
TS
In my own personal thinking, we are all loved equally and uniquely personally by God and we all, sinners that we are, will enter Heaven through God’s Loving Mercy alone. We are all sinners - some led via this path, some by that and God gifts all the Graces necessary to travel the path along which He leads. And we all witness, no matter our personal vocation, to some aspect of the truths of our Faith according to the Graces received. I think that there are far more grave matter issues than just the sexual and this is an obvious I know. There are far more potentially sinful issues than sexual issues - and sins against Charity are the worst of all. If, as St. Paul tells us, Charity is the greatest virtue, then sins against Charity are the worst - God after all is Love. And of course, sins against purity can be a serious failure in the Love of God - and of neighbour.
The return of the repentant sinner is the most powerful witness of all to the all embracing Loving Mercy of God that excludes none and nothing. It is a beautiful and outstanding witness to God’s Loving Mercy - and over which the whole of Heaven rejoices, Jesus has told us. This is wondrous not only that the sinner has returned, but that he or she has given such outstanding powerful witness to the Glory of God in His Loving All Embracing Mercy. And interestingly, a witness that only the repentant sinner can give!
I do acknowledge that virginity as a chosen way of life and especially once it is consecrated virginity is a beautiful vocation and Grace granted by God and does stand as distinctly counter-cultural especially in our day and is therefore a powerful and needed witness to virginity for one. I really do hope that more young women especially will give thought to consecrated virginity and that God will be generous in the Grace of viginity to both young women and men and that they will respond courageously to a beautiful Grace offered - and to the dire need of a witness needed in today’s world that perhaps only the young can give with impact.
Just me!
TS
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DJ_Pius_X
Guest
I have zero desire to have a family. In consequence, I have zero desire to get married or have a life partnership, though that might change in the future. Either way, I cannot imagine myself at any time having kids.
Does that mean I’m selfish? I don’t think so. It just means that I prefer having companionship through close friendship and family, rather than through romance. Doesn’t bother me none.
Does that mean I’m selfish? I don’t think so. It just means that I prefer having companionship through close friendship and family, rather than through romance. Doesn’t bother me none.
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nameeta
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“The return of the repentant sinner is the most powerful witness of all to the all embracing Loving Mercy of God that excludes none and nothing. It is a beautiful and outstanding witness to God’s Loving Mercy - and over which the whole of Heaven rejoices, Jesus has told us. This is wondrous not only that the sinner has returned, but that he or she has given such outstanding powerful witness to the Glory of God in His Loving All Embracing Mercy. And interestingly, a witness that only the repentant sinner can give!”
TiggerS , what you have said above is absolutely true about the Lord’s Merciful love for the repentant sinner . The Cross of Jesus Christ which is the center of our faith- has found meaning because of this love of Jesus for sinners .
The link to my blog refers to just one facet of the vocation of consecrated virginity. The one question it tried to search was why physical virginity is essential for the vocation . The question cannot be ignored and the criterion for this particular vocation cannot be accepted blindly.
The Lord’s love for virgin-Mother-Mary is also a beautiful and outstanding witness to God’s Loving Mercy for sinful humanity . The Church cherishes the belief that it was a virgin who bore Jesus Christ our Savior.
Virginity in the vocation of the Order of consecrated virgins according to canon 604 - is a vocation to Love . You are right . Without charity, nothing else has meaning. This is THE POINT I’ve been struggling in my search for the Identity and Mission of cons.virgins in today’s world. My other posts on the blogsite reflect on this. ocvnewevangelisation.blogspot.com/2011/07/theology-of-body-order-of-consecrated.html
You have a rich understanding of consecrated life . Praise God !
Every Christian is called to love and serve . Not all are repentant sinners in the Church since most were baptised as infants - but the faith should still have meaning.
Pray for me ! Thanks !
TiggerS , what you have said above is absolutely true about the Lord’s Merciful love for the repentant sinner . The Cross of Jesus Christ which is the center of our faith- has found meaning because of this love of Jesus for sinners .
The link to my blog refers to just one facet of the vocation of consecrated virginity. The one question it tried to search was why physical virginity is essential for the vocation . The question cannot be ignored and the criterion for this particular vocation cannot be accepted blindly.
The Lord’s love for virgin-Mother-Mary is also a beautiful and outstanding witness to God’s Loving Mercy for sinful humanity . The Church cherishes the belief that it was a virgin who bore Jesus Christ our Savior.
Virginity in the vocation of the Order of consecrated virgins according to canon 604 - is a vocation to Love . You are right . Without charity, nothing else has meaning. This is THE POINT I’ve been struggling in my search for the Identity and Mission of cons.virgins in today’s world. My other posts on the blogsite reflect on this. ocvnewevangelisation.blogspot.com/2011/07/theology-of-body-order-of-consecrated.html
You have a rich understanding of consecrated life . Praise God !
Every Christian is called to love and serve . Not all are repentant sinners in the Church since most were baptised as infants - but the faith should still have meaning.
Pray for me ! Thanks !
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scoobydoo6v92
Guest
It’s evident that you are called to single life. That is a real vocation. The only way it would be selfish is if you’re doing it to afford more toys or travel. But if you are being single to serve God’s kingdom, it is a wonderful vocation. What is your motive?? That is the indicator whether it is selfish or selfless. My opinion. Scoob.
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TiggerS
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I would absolutely agree and especially for those called to Consecrated Virginity; however an understanding of all vocations can only increase the understanding of our own personal vocation - my problem is that I have never read anything as detailed as your blog (nor given much thought at all, indeed if any, to Consecrated Virginity) and it will take me a while to prayerfully reflect on your blog entries.
All vocations speak to each other somehow and also speak to us also about the Truths of our Faith.
This is the image that first came to me on reading your blog. The virginity of Mary and Mary as an image of The Church. I was reading recently that as Jesus came to us through Mary, so He continues to come to us through her - this is another powerful image of The Church given to us by Our Lady. And as I read the first blog entry, this is what occured to me. That consecrated virginity witnesses to us Mary and The Church- and of course The Church IS The Mystical Body of Christ on earth.
When I was in the dark and trying to define my own vocation, a priest said to me “Imitate Mary” and I thought to myself “But we know so little about her - how she lived her life on earth”. Much later, it occured to me “Precisely! Our Lady while on earth lived a very ordinary and quite humble daily life as it were. She penetrated to the heart of the understanding of God’s Divine Providence and Plan - and His Divine Providence is present in every single life and person on earth - and speaking to His Divine Plan”. No wood without the trees!
As I think I have said, we are all called to some kind of witness to the truths of our Faith. And the repentant sinner witnesses in a powerful way to the Loving Mercy of The Lord which excludes no person, nor no matter how serious the offences or degenerate the lifestyle. When I first read the Diary of St. Faustina, I was immediately struck by The Lord’s comments to her that the most serious sinner has the most right to His Mercy - and slowly it came to me that the most serious sinner repentant is an outstanding witness to His Loving Mercy. Hence the call to repentance to us all, including to those living the most failed of moral lives, is a call to witness to His Loving Mercy.
My patron saint much loved is St. Therese of Lisieux and she penetrated to the truth of all calls and vocations - that it is Love that is the motivation and hence Love is at the core and the motivating force of all vocations and is the heart of The Church - and she decided that her vocation in Carmel would be Love and in all situations and circumstances that came her way. This is her witness to us - in all things Love! Therese wanted ardently to be many things besides a Carmelite nun and she realized that in giving herself totally to Love in all things, she could be at the heart of all vocations exempting none.
To repeat myself
- I haven’t yet had sufficient time to prayerfully reflect on your blog. I plan to do so, not only to enrich my understanding of Consecrated Virginity, but my understanding of my own call and vocation. Again, I thank you for the link to the blog as no other writing including by actually those in the Order of Virgins has touched me as your blog has.Amen! Indeed in all things let us praise and thank God always - St. Therese observed and right into the heart of our theology that “All is Grace”. All that is good has God as the origin and as the end. The Alpha and the Omega. The more poor and impoverished unlikely the vessel of God’s Grace, the more powerfully that Grace can shine forth.
While not all who are leading failed moral lives are repentant, let us never loose the ardent hope that they will come to full repentance. The more ardent and consistent our prayer, the more powerful. Let us hope and pray that every single one of us is a repentant sinner and daily since “even the just man falls seventy times seven”. And how true this is, I know, from personal experience. Sin primarily is measured, I think, by the Graces granted not to fail. And God alone has knowledge and insight into this. We are all coming from somewhere and many come from sound and happy backgrounds, others come from anything but that - some slightly, some in a major way. And our past somehow always speaks to our now and our future. For some, perhaps many, their failing moral living has, in part, originated out of circumstances that may not be their own fault. Only God can insight this.
Let us have nothing but compassion and understanding, a spirit of Mercy, for all. It is to the merciful that Mercy will be granted - and a human disposition of Mercy that embraces all reflects and witnesses to the Loving Mercy of The Lord.
Amen and please keep me and all in your own prayers.
God bless - TS
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TiggerS
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Spot on, scoob! I did have a look at DJ Pius X’s profile last night, which said volumes! And teaching English in a foreign country, for one point, is a valuable contribution to society. The Church and we in The Church are called to be the leaven in society - and in a special way and unique way, those of us in the lay state and perhaps especially the lay single celibate state whether experienced as transitory or as call and vocation - we give a particular witness and can work in unique ways.
Not only this, but The Church in China at the moment is undergoing persecution - to be Catholic may take an awful lot of courage for and in The Lord - and more!!! What an outstanding witness to The Church and indeed to Christ as valued above all!!!
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Norseman82
Guest
OK, here’s my reasoning as to why the CCC (and Bible) imply the possibility of God haveing a plan B.
First, God gave us all a free will. See Sirach 15:11-22.
Second, in Romans 8:28, we read that God makes all things works together for those who love Him.
Does God will that people sin? Of course not. But people do. So, in a sense, our entire salvation history, including the need for Jesus dying on the cross, is itself a “plan B” because the original “plan A”, which was for Adam to live in Paradise, did not work out due to Adam and Eve’s sin.
Additionally, the CCC refers to single persons who are close to Jesus’s heart due to circumstances often not of their choosing (CCC 1658). This does not i9mply that God planned for this.
One must realize that there are all sorts of ways in which misuse of free will is what causes the thwarting of God’s original plan. Consider the case of someone who fornicates and as a result catches an STD. That closes off a multitude of prospective marriage partners. Does that mean that God meant and planned for that sin to happen? Of course not! Sirach 15 clearly demonmstartes that. Therefore, chaste single life is the “plan B” if he/she cannot find a spouse due their STD.
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TiggerS
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An excellent article on the single celibate state as one’s call and vocation by Archbishop Carlson of the Archdiocese of St. Louis:
archstl.org/archstl/post/vocation-dedicated-single-life-lead
archstl.org/archstl/post/vocation-dedicated-single-life-lead
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TiggerS
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scborromeo.org/ccc/p122a4p2.htm#600
#600 CCC: “To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore he establishes his **eternal planof “predestination”, **he includes in it each person’s free response to his grace. . .”
**Predestination: **In the widest sense it is every eternal decision of God; in a narrower sense it is the supernatural final destination of rational creatures; and in the strictest sense it is God’s eternal decision to assume certain rational creatures into heavenly glory. Predestination implies an act of the divine intellect and of the divine will. The first is foreknowledge, the second is predestination.
According to its efficacy in time, predestination is distinguished as incomplete or complete depending on whether it is to grace only or also to glory. Complete predestination is the divine preparation of grace in the present life and of glory in the life to come.
This doctrine is proposed by the ordinary and universal teaching of the Church as a truth of revelation. The reality of predestination is clearly attested by St. Paul: “They are the ones he chose especially long ago and intended to become true images of the Son, so that his Son, might be the eldest of many brothers. He called those he intended for this; those he called he justified and with those he justified he shared his glory.” (Romans 8:29-30). All elements of complete predestination are given: the activity of God’s mind and will, and the principal stages of its realization in time.
The main difficulty in the doctrine of predestination is whether God’s eternal decision has been taken with or without consideration of human freedom. Catholic teaching holds that predestination by God does not deny the human free will. Numerous theories have been offered on how to reconcile the two, but all admit with St. Paul (Romans 11:33) that predestination is an unfathomable mystery. (Etym. Latin praedestinatio, a determining beforehand.) therealpresence.org/cgi-bin/getdefinition.pl
Eternal: In its full sense, duration of being without beginning, succession, or ending. Only God possesses the fullness of eternity, since only he always existed (no beginning), has no succession (no change), and will never end (no cessation). It is defined Catholic doctrine that God possesses the divine Being in a constant undivided now. His eternity is the perfect and simultaneous total possession of interminable life.
Rational creatures share in God’s eternity, but only approximate it, by participation. Angels have a beginning, and they have a succession of past, present, and future, but they have no cessation since they are pure spirits that will never die or cease to be. Human beings likewise have a beginning and they have succession, but unlike the angels they will die in body, to be later resurrected, while the souls live on forever. In God’s absolute power, however, angels and human souls could be deprived of existence. Their eternity depends on the goodness and will of God. therealpresence.org/cgi-bin/getdefinition.pl
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TiggerS
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Anthropomorphism
newadvent.org/cathen/01558c.htm
. . . " . . . The limitations of our conceptual capacity oblige us to represent God to ourselves in ideas that have been originally drawn from our knowledge of self and the objective world. The Scriptures themselves amply warn us against the mistake of interpreting their figurative language in too literal a sense… . . ." . . .
newadvent.org/cathen/01558c.htm
. . . " . . . The limitations of our conceptual capacity oblige us to represent God to ourselves in ideas that have been originally drawn from our knowledge of self and the objective world. The Scriptures themselves amply warn us against the mistake of interpreting their figurative language in too literal a sense… . . ." . . .
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Norseman82
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Well, if free will and man’s response is taken into accouint, does it not stand to reasion that if God knows someone will reject what He initially wants, that what God originally wanted (but was rejected by man ) was “plan A” and what may have transpired later could be “plan B” (or “C” or “D”…)?
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Norseman82
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TiggerS
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forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
Anthropomorphism
newadvent.org/cathen/01558c.htm
*. . . " . . . The limitations of our conceptual capacity *oblige us to represent God to ourselves in ideas that have been originally drawn from our knowledge of self and the objective world. The Scriptures themselves amply warn us against the mistake of interpreting their figurative language in too literal a sense… . . ." . . .
???
What does this have to do with the current discussion?
Actually, what we are discussing is not in the terms of the subject of this thread, other than quite indirectly. The subject of this thread is the single lay celibate state as vocation.
Be this as it may, when human beings have an objective in mind, if Plan A does not work, then they have Plan B in mind - this is the human way of proceeding due to our limitations of knowledge (of the future i.e. that Plan A would be rejected) . This can be projected onto God incorrectly and is known as “anthropormorphism”. When we anthropormorphisise God, we incorrectly give him the limitations and qualities that we humans have.
God has only one plan which factors in (it could be said) man’s disobedience and rejection:
#600 CCC: “To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore he establishes his **eternal planof “predestination”, **he includes in it each person’s free response to his grace. . .”
Nowhere in the CCC does it state “God’s Plans” i.e. plural.
The above is addressed by #600 I quoted above from the CCC.
Other than that, one can think of things that way if one chooses - and it is probably the way we humans tend to experience things in that a person may marry, be widowed and then be called to religious life. Another may be born Catholic, live a morally failed life and then repent. These may think of their lives as a Plan A then B and C" . However, God’s Plan is one - and it is all within God’s, so termed in these discussions, ‘Plan A’ - “to unite all things in Him”.
CCC #772 " It is in the Church that Christ fulfills and reveals his own mystery as the purpose of God’s plan: "to unite all things in him.“189 . . .” . . .
To discuss God in relationship to a Plan A and Plan B, it should be addressed in another thread, since the subject of this thread is the single lay celibate state as vocation? Also, it is obvious that only you and I are interested in the subject of God’s Plan/Plans which has drifted outside the subject of this thread and I think our discussion should perhaps be moved to another thread perhaps in apologetics or some sort of theology forum. I am not familiar with all the various forums on this site.
TS
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Norseman82
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Actually, the whole “plan A” / “plan B” was brought up in regards to relationships and state of life vocations, it’s just that someone (not I!) keeps muddying the waters by bringing up “unite all things in Him”, which is not the specific topic of this thread.Actually, what we are discussing is not in the terms of the subject of this thread, other than quite indirectly. The subject of this thread is the single lay celibate state as vocation.
Be this as it may, when human beings have an objective in mind, if Plan A does not work, then they have Plan B in mind - this is the human way of proceeding due to our limitations of knowledge (of the future i.e. that Plan A would be rejected) . This can be projected onto God incorrectly and is known as “anthropormorphism”. When we anthropormorphisise God, we incorrectly give him the limitations and qualities that we humans have.
God has only one plan which factors in (it could be said) man’s disobedience and rejection:
#600 CCC: “To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore he establishes his eternal planof “predestination”, he includes in it each person’s free response to his grace. . .”
Nowhere in the CCC does it state “God’s Plans” i.e. plural.
One can think of things that way if one chooses - and it is probably the way we humans experience things in that a person may marry, be widowed and then be called to religious life. Another may be born Catholic, live a morally failed life and then repent. These may think of their lives as a Plan A then B and C if they wish. However, it is all within God’s ‘Plan A’ “to unite all things in Him”.
CCC #772 " It is in the Church that Christ fulfills and reveals his own mystery as the purpose of God’s plan: "to unite all things in him.“189 . . .” . . .
To discuss God in relationship to a Plan A and Plan B, it should be addressed in another thread, since the subject of this thread is the single lay celibate state as vocation? Also, it is obvious that only you and I are interested in the subject of God’s Plan/Plans which has drifted outside the subject of this thread and I think our discussion should perhaps be moved to another thread perhaps in apologetics or some sort of theology forum. I am not familiar with all the various forums on this site.
TS
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TiggerS
Guest
As quoted, the CCC states : CCC #772 " It is in the Church that Christ fulfills and reveals his own mystery as the purpose of God’s plan: "to unite all things in him.“189 . . .” . . . And our whole lives, our accepting and rejecting of His Grace, and our vocations - all our moments - are within God’s Plan “to unite all things in Him”. God does not have a Plan B or C nor D etc.
#600 CCC: “To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore he establishes his eternal planof “predestination”, he includes in it each person’s free response to his grace. . .”
The above quotes from the CCC includes all our relationships and all calls from God and vocations to a state in life. Our every single moment of life and what is involved.
**CCC #303 **The witness of Scripture is unanimous that the solicitude of divine providence is concrete and immediate; God cares for all, from the least things to the great events of the world and its history. The sacred books powerfully affirm God’s absolute sovereignty over the course of events: “Our God is in the heavens; he does whatever he pleases.” And so it is with Christ, “who opens and no one shall shut, who shuts and no one opens”. As the book of Proverbs states: “Many are the plans in the mind of a man, but it is the purpose of the LORD that will be established.”
We have settled I think that we certainly can agree to disagree and let the subject lapse and return to the single celibate lay state as a potential vocation and call from God?
- Status