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Noose001
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That’s what happens when you think reality is independent from consciousness. Reality is what we perceive.
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Michaelangelo
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I fail to see what your assertion about reality and counsciousness has to do with what I wrote earlier?Michaelangelo:
That’s what happens when you think reality is independent from consciousness. Reality is what we perceive.
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catholicray
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Just meditate on the implications of your own statement and see if it makes sense. It doesn’t to me.
Hold yourself as still as possible don’t even move your eyes. Now imagine if this experience was perfect in every way with nothing calling you away from this stillness. That’s the best I could think about it.
Then I think of the Father gazing in love upon his beloved Son. A flawless love.
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Noose001
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It is very important to consider consciousness as the source of reality otherwise you are already loosing the game because any point that can be marked as the beginning of time, there will always be a ‘before that’ whose conditions can be perfectly explained.
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Noose001
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There’s a lot of changes that happen even when you stand still and all of it is experiential; day will pass and night will fall, your heart beats, you breathe. But if you are dead you won’t experience all those things, that is what it means pure stillness- so what does this tell you? that consciousness is the measure of reality.
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2014taylorj
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The substantial form is the source of all reality. In fact it is reality.
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Michaelangelo
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That might be important in philosophy but not in physics.
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Dan_Defender
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Measurements indicate that the universe is expanding in an accelerated way in all directions, therefore the current implication is that it all started at a singular point or at least in a fairly small area.
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Michaelangelo
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A “singular point” and a fairly small area are vastly different concepts. The big bang model supports the latter but not the former.Michaelangelo:
Measurements indicate that the universe is expanding in an accelerated way in all directions, therefore the current implication is that it all started at a singular point or at least in a fairly small area.
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Christbearer98
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Yeah that’s even just dumb, questions of Catholic orthodoxy to the side. God is the universe? Any argument for God starts with why the universe needs a cause outside itself, thus this “god” would still need God to cause it to exist 
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Noose001
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There are many important things that don’t need a cause; all immaterial things/conditions are not caused.Yeah that’s even just dumb, questions of Catholic orthodoxy to the side. God is the universe? Any argument for God starts with why the universe needs a cause outside itself, thus this “god” would still need God to cause it to exist
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Michaelangelo
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Could you give some examples of such uncaused immaterial things?Christbearer98:
There are many important things that don’t need a cause; all immaterial things/conditions are not caused.Yeah that’s even just dumb, questions of Catholic orthodoxy to the side. God is the universe? Any argument for God starts with why the universe needs a cause outside itself, thus this “god” would still need God to cause it to exist
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Noose001
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Silence, coldness, darkness e.t.c. These conditions perfectly describe ‘before the beginning’ and they are not just conditions, they are part of reality and play an important role. For example; sound can not exist without silence.
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Christbearer98
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You just named things which are the non-existence of other things. Lack of sound…
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Noose001
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So why do you say “it is dark” instead of saying “it is nothing”?
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Christbearer98
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How else would we know that we are referring to a lack of light versus a lack of sound?
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Noose001
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We just know by understanding and that understanding comes from consciousness.
Q. Can sound exist without silence?
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Christbearer98
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I’m not sure where you’re going with this. I don’t see why not. It seems like an equivalent would be to ask can there be something material without there being empty space. I think the real question would be the reverse: can silence exist without sound?
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Noose001
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Silence like i said is immaterial and therefore not created; IOW it is sound that is emergent and not silence yet silence is critical in that it has to be, to be contrasted with sound for sound to gain any meaning. But in all these, it is consciousness that does the contrasting and therefore consciousness creates reality.
Silence has always been there so you can not ask if it is dependent on sound.
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Michaelangelo
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Without having studied in depth what is being said in philosophy about this I would argue that the only reason we even consider these “conditions” as something is because the ideas about them were developed waaay before we had any idea what sound, heat, light etc., actually is. I consider them to be linguistic relics.Michaelangelo:
Silence, coldness, darkness e.t.c. These conditions perfectly describe ‘before the beginning’ and they are not just conditions, they are part of reality and play an important role. For example; sound can not exist without silence.
How is, what we percieve, as sound dependent on the lack of sound?
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