The Singularity(physics) is God?

[Michaelangelo]

Michaelangelo:

Well apparently I think I need more data.

What kind of data do you need to postulate ‘nothingness’?

I do not know because I have not formulated a hypothesis on that.

Yes, i said and i still say, light has a material source and you are now saying that light has a particulate source. I don’t get the difference.

All matter are particles but not all particles are matter. I would urge you actually study some physics.

Well, you need to update yourself.

Considering you don’t really have a grasp of this fundamental aspect of physics I hardly think you are in a position to tell me that.

Some of those physical claims have been shown to be incorrect.

Like what?

That atoms and molecules were created before light. Then light was created, including daylight. And then after that the sun and other stars were created. This simply does not work.

Early on in Genesis, it is said God created a perfect universe. It was a spiritual universe and not a physical one; i can tell this because as soon as Adam sinned, it is said that their eyes were opened and they realized they were naked. It shows that from the mode they were created, they were not able to see the physical which includes their bodies, the physical was brought about by sin.

Ehh could not see the “physical”? Nowhere is it said that man was not created as a physical being. Both creation stories clearly states than man was physical from start.
And by the way, man’s fall was the second one.

So, does the bible make claims about this fallen world? Yes, but only with respect that the physical world is fallen and the spiritual world is being restored.

A work in progress since there is supposed to be a great number of fallen spiritual world.

It really doesn’t matter what you call reality claims because your reference to reality is not the spiritual reality but what you observe.

What you observe is your only point of reference too.

 

[Noose001]

I do not know because I have not formulated a hypothesis on that.

I’m not asking you to formulate anything, i’m telling you there’s no data needed to formulate ‘nothingness’ as you have already referred it because it is nothing, remember?! If data is needed, then it is something.

All matter are particles but not all particles are matter. I would urge you actually study some physics.

Well, i was obviously talking about material particles, are you saying that immaterial particles are the source of sound/light/heat?

Considering you don’t really have a grasp of this fundamental aspect of physics I hardly think you are in a position to tell me that.

Physics is only waking up to what has been known for some time now, stay tuned.

That atoms and molecules were created before light. Then light was created, including daylight. And then after that the sun and other stars were created. This simply does not work.

The bible doesn’t say that. Again, initial creation was spiritual and sin brought about the physical.

What you observe is your only point of reference too.

Yes and it is deceiving.

 

[Michaelangelo]

I’m not asking you to formulate anything, i’m telling you there’s no data needed to formulate ‘nothingness’ as you have already referred it because it is nothing, remember?! If data is needed, then it is something.

Yes it is exactly what you are asking me to do. Saying “yes there is a outside of the universe” or “the universe is eternal”, are both hypotheses. And I will, one again, reply that I will not formulate such a hypothesis because I lack sufficient data. We have no data from within our universe what absolute cold is because all we have in the universe is heat. One is free to speculate if one so desire. But I pass.

All matter are particles but not all particles are matter. I would urge you actually study some physics.

Well, i was obviously talking about material particles, are you saying that immaterial particles are the source of sound/light/heat?

Yes light is very much non-matter. Sound and heat is on the other hand the result of kinetic energy of matter.

Physics is only waking up to what has been known for some time now, stay tuned.

Please do tell me what has been known for “some time” about the universe outside empirical science.

That atoms and molecules were created before light. Then light was created, including daylight. And then after that the sun and other stars were created. This simply does not work.

The bible doesn’t say that.

Genesis 1:1-2 Heaven and earth (including water) was created. And it was dark.
Genesis 1:3 “Let there be light”.
Genesis 1:5 Light was called day and dark was called night.
Genesis 1:16 On the third day the big light was created to rule the day and the smaller to rule the night.

Well no atom can exist without light. So, no light, no earth or water. And which light was the source for daylight on day one and two?

Again, initial creation was spiritual and sin brought about the physical.

Not according to any church teaching. And sin entered the creation before man sinned. So if sin would be the origin of the physical world then the physical world existed before man sinned.

What you observe is your only point of reference too.

Yes and it is deceiving.

So what makes you less deceived about reality than I am?

 

[Noose001]

Please do tell me what has been known for “some time” about the universe outside empirical science.

http://www.mindreality.com/observer-creates-reality-simply-by-observing

This is not a new concept.

Sound and heat is on the other hand the result of kinetic energy of matter.

So what’s wrong with what i said earlier? Do i have to say kinetic energy of matter?

Genesis 1:1-2 Heaven and earth (including water) was created. And it was dark.
Genesis 1:3 “Let there be light”.
Genesis 1:5 Light was called day and dark was called night.
Genesis 1:16 On the third day the big light was created to rule the day and the smaller to rule the night.

Well no atom can exist without light. So, no light, no earth or water. And which light was the source for daylight on day one and two?

It seems the bible is too poetic for you to grasp. The only literal thing was darkness.

The first statement “In the beginning, God created the heavens and earth” is only an introduction, doesn’t mean that God started by creating the heavens and earth and then light.

The water in the beginning has nothing to do with H2O, it represents retrospectively, the spirits of men through which the universe would be programmed/ created.

Pro 20:5 The intentions of a man’s heart are deep waters, but a man of understanding draws them out
Pro 18:4
The words of a man’s mouth are deep waters; the fountain of wisdom is a bubbling brook.

The first item was light and then every other thing followed but they were all in the spiritual dimension but being said retrospective of how man would experience it after the fall, hence the days.

Not according to any church teaching. And sin entered the creation before man sinned. So if sin would be the origin of the physical world then the physical world existed before man sinned.

No it did not, the physical world appeared when they opened their eyes after sinning.
The church can teach but no one needs to be taught, even in this fallen dimension, just observe and come to the conclusion. (Rom 1:20)

So what makes you less deceived about reality than I am?

You regard Physics (observation) above everything i suppose.

 

[AlNg]

light is very much non-matter.

Theoretically at least, light can be converted into matter.

Scientists discover how to turn light into matter after 80-year quest | Imperial News | Imperial College London

 

[Michaelangelo]

So what’s wrong with what i said earlier? Do i have to say kinetic energy of matter?

You obviously did not understand the difference between particles of matter and particles not of matter since you continued to claim that both light, sound and heat had material origin. I had to explain that four or five times. Yet you continue to lecture me about physics. And in science one has to be careful with the wording because of the non-intuitive nature of the universe.

The first statement “In the beginning, God created the heavens and earth” is only an introduction, doesn’t mean that God started by creating the heavens and earth and then light.

Kindly point to any official church teaching supporting this claim.

The water in the beginning has nothing to do with H2O, it represents retrospectively, the spirits of men through which the universe would be programmed/ created.

Again, official church teaching please.

Not according to any church teaching. And sin entered the creation before man sinned. So if sin would be the origin of the physical world then the physical world existed before man sinned.

No it did not, the physical world appeared when they opened their eyes after sinning.

The angels sinned before man.

The church can teach but no one needs to be taught, even in this fallen dimension, just observe and come to the conclusion. (Rom 1:20)

So the magisterium you are obliged to obey is really unnecessary, because you are the magisterium too?

 

[Michaelangelo]

http://www.mindreality.com/observer-creates-reality-simply-by-observing

That article of woo you linked to, was published on a website advertising “Secrets of quantum physics, mind secrets, psychic powers, real magic, astrology and wealth creation”. Oh such a wealth of information for you to learn about physics from. I mean which well educated physicist would not want to be published there.
It furthermore contined classic nonsense as:

“The theory is that the electron splits into two when it reaches the first screen and travels through both slits simultaneously. It then interferes with itself thereby causing a wave effect on the wide screen. In quantum physics, this is called the principle of nonlocality where something exist in two places at one time. It is not restricted to one location in time and space but it becomes omnipresent.”
This is not what nonlocality says.

“What this means is that when we are looking, it behaves like a particle. When we are not looking, it behaves as a wave. A wave is a vibration or energy.”
Nope. This not the case at all. No consciousness of any sort is required to collapse the wavefunction.

“The truth is, everything in the universe is ultimately Energy, and Energy is influenced by Mind. Something only appears as matter when it is being observed.”
The “truth”, oh my. And from such a credible source. Again, oh my!
Energy is a property of objects. Nothing is energy.

“Consciousness collapses the wave function into actual particles that exist in space and time. Consciousness experiences energy as matter.”
Show me a single verification for this claim.

“Consciousness is the energy that influences energy. All energy is actually consciousness, therefore it is consciousness influencing itself.”
The woo-meter just went into red and then exploded.

 

[Michaelangelo]

That light can be “created” from matter and vice versa has been known for quite some
time. One has to be careful using the term “created” here though. The particles still only exist in each respective field.

For example:
Particle 1 (electron, matter) + particle 2 (antielectron, antimatter) <–> particle 3 (photon, not matter) + antiparticle 4 (photon, not matter).
The reaction is equally likely in both directions.

 

[Noose001]

You obviously did not understand the difference between particles of matter and particles not of matter since you continued to claim that both light, sound and heat had material origin. I had to explain that four or five times. Yet you continue to lecture me about physics. And in science one has to be careful with the wording because of the non-intuitive nature of the universe.

Hot things gives light- the basis for incandescent lamps and it is obvious that light can have a material/particulate source.

Kindly point to any official church teaching supporting this claim.

Again, official church teaching please.

Just the bible. The bible says, people interpret and out of the many interpretations, non is official.

The angels sinned before man.

An interpretation

So the magisterium you are obliged to obey is really unnecessary, because you are the magisterium too?

I’m a non denominational.

 

[Noose001]

Maybe the site is questionable but my focus was on the interpretation of the double split experiment. What role does an observer play in wave function collapse?

In quantum mechanics, wave function collapse occurs when a wave function—initially in a superposition of several eigenstates—reduces to a single eigenstate due to interaction with the external world. This interaction is called an “observation”. It is the essence of a measurement in quantum mechanics which connects the wave function with classical observables like position and momentum. Collapse is one of two processes by which quantum systems evolve in time; the other is the continuous evolution via the Schrödinger equation.[1] Collapse is a black box for a thermodynamically irreversible interaction with a classical environment.

 

[Michaelangelo]

Hot things gives light- the basis for incandescent lamps and it is obvious that light can have a material/particulate source.

Not according to quantum field theory which is the most precise scientific theory devised so far. But of course authors on mindreality.com are a much better source of scientific understanding than any of the links I provided

Maybe the site is questionable but my focus was on the interpretation of the double split experiment. What role does an observer play in wave function collapse?

So the source might be “questionable” but it provide top notch information? No conscious observer is needed for the wavefunction to collapse. Do I have to repeat this too ad infinitum?

 

[Noose001]

Not according to quantum field theory which is the most precise scientific theory devised so far. But of course authors on mindreality.com are a much better source of scientific understanding than any of the links I provided

Example of a material light source:
An incandescent light bulb , incandescent lamp or incandescent light globe is an electric light with a wire filament heated until it glows. The filament is enclosed in a bulb to protect the filament from oxidation. Current is supplied to the filament by terminals or wires embedded in the glass. A bulb socket provides mechanical support and electrical connections.

 

[stoplooklisten]

It has been argued many times by people that the singularity, in physics, implies the existence of God. However, I heard in a documentary a physicist called Frank Tipler who believed that the singularity at the Big Bang is God!.

“God is a Spirit.” God is not contained within a physical body like we are. Physics exists within the realm of the physical. The spiritual exists outside of the boundaries of the physical. The contingent existence of the physical (which has been traced back to a singularity) was caused by the action of the non-contingent God.

 

[Michaelangelo]

“God is a Spirit.” God is not contained within a physical body like we are. Physics exists within the realm of the physical. The spiritual exists outside of the boundaries of the physical. The contingent existence of the physical (which has been traced back to a singularity) was caused by the action of the non-contingent God.

Nope, there has been no tracing back to a singularity in the big bang theory.

 

[IWantGod]

Are they heretical?

Yes…

 

[IWantGod]

Theoretically at least, light can be converted into matter.

Turn light into a cheese and pickle sandwich and i’ll be interested.

 

[IWantGod]

As Catholics what are we to make of these exotic beliefs?

Lack of imagination