the song "AMAZING GRACE"

[sackett]

mayra hart:

and i quoted " evangelical and catholic theologies both accept as the starting tenet of soteriology that we are saved by grace. god gives us his life as an act of generosity on his part. this is not a point of disagreement between catholics and evangelicals. it is one of the glorious agreements! the hymn “amazing grace” is a favorite of in both churches. none of us would have a chance at salvation but for the grace of god. we need to remind ourselves that on this point we are in total agreement. we are saved by grace. anyone who disagrees with this analysis is not looking at the facts" from david currie born fundamentalist born again catholic…

Mayra,

A friend of mine gave me that same book, it is very interesting. It is agreed between protestants and catholics that a person is saved by grace alone. But the protestant objection is that to say salvation is not also by faith alone, it stops being by grace alone. why?
Because if works are involved in our being declared righteous before God, it depends on human merit. Grace is after all unmerited favor, isn’t it? And merit excludes grace. So I rejoice in a song like Amazing Grace as well, knowing that God didn’t save me because I was a “good” person, but despite who I was as a sinner he loved me freely. (Hosea 14:4).

About the teaching of “Once Saved, Always Saved”, it strikes many catholics as presumptuous. How can a person know that he or she is going to heaven? No one knows! Well…if a person is trusting in themselves for salvation, I completely agree. How could you know that you were working hard enough? But if your faith is in Christ’s atonement, “with his stripes we are healed” (Is 53:5),
Then by saying that you know you’re going to heaven is to testify to the faithfulness of God, “I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.” (Phil 1:6). But a Christian ought to test himself to see if he’s truly born of God.

II Cor 13 “Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?–unless indeed you fail to meet the test!”

Any objections?

 

[Sweetcakes]

I hate this song; it’s been done to death and I’ve told my husband that if it’s played at my funeral, I’ll sit up in my coffin and scream.

 

[PaulDupre]

I love that song - probably because I’m a wretch (or used to be).
Paul

 

[Dunmoose]

I hate the song for the same reason sweetcakes does. I will, however, tolerate it if its done to an alternate tune. Gilligan’s Island is good, but, my favourite is “The House of the Rising Sun”.

 

[DaveBj]

Let’s take a little break from the heavy theological discussion.

Most of the discussion on “Amazing Grace” has been about the words, and I think most posters are assuming that John Newton, who wrote the words, also wrote the tune. Actually, most 19th-century English and American hymn-writers wrote only the words. The tune would be composed by someone else, sometimes years later (I myself have written new settings for old hymn poems using a completely new tune), or a tune would be “borrowed” from another source (the tune for the “Star-Spangled Banner” was originally an English drinking song; Martin Luther was also known to use German drinking songs as tunes for some of his hymns, including “Mighty Fortress,” because these were tunes that the people knew).

I just did a quick search of some of my hymnal collection, and the best information that I can find is that the tune is an “early American tune” taken from a 1830s book entitles “Virginia Harmony.” A trained hymnologist could speak with more authority than I can, but I don’t believe there’s any evidence linking the tune to John Newton.

The practice of putting different tunes to well-known hymn poems is also of long standing. In fact, hymnals make it easy by giving each hymn tune a number code that refers to the number of syllables in each line. I have seen as many as four different settings of the same hymn poem to different tunes, all right next to each other in the same hymnal.

And I have done an arrangement of “Amazing Grace” to “House of the Rising Sun” in an unaccompanied male quartet, the first two verses using “Rising Sun,” and then switching to the traditional melody in the relative major key. It was very effective. I wish I could find three other like-minded guys and do it again.

I did hear one African-American preacher (a wonderful bass-baritone in his own right) who believed that Newton did, in fact, write the tune. He pointed out that the melody is in the pentatonic scale (i.e., can be played on only the black keys, and he stressed the pun), which is the scale used in traditional African music. His belief was that Newton heard that melody as a “sorrow chant” being sung by slaves in one of his voyages.

Okay, back to the heavy discussions now.

DaveBj