The Soul and the Brain

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On another thread, we are examining the scientific evidence regarding a material source for volition which obviously is related to the rational intellect. This is off topic for this tread; however, the current assumptions regarding a material source are having difficulty in the real world of science.

The spiritual soul, as an essential component of human nature, is still a fact of truth.
If we are discussing the soul and the brain, it is important to discuss which performs which functions. Tonyrey claims that thinking is a function of the soul, while the evidence indicates that it is a function of the brain. It is relevant to the topic.

How do you know that the soul exists, and what is it?
 
If we are discussing the soul and the brain, it is important to discuss which performs which functions. Tonyrey claims that thinking is a function of the soul, while the evidence indicates that it is a function of the brain. It is relevant to the topic.

I understand. The relationship of soul to brain is discussed in post 116 above.

I am approaching functions and locations of cognition and volition using research based on “Awake Brain Surgery” plus evolutionary principles regarding degrees of difference between the human species and animal species. My participation is on the thread “Mind & Matter” Apologetics.
How do you know that the soul exists, and what is it?
 
In fact, I am in the process of leaving.
Don’t leave Grannymh:(. Instead; let you mind become one with my bio-chip, so that i too can experience this curious wonder that you call the human soul…
 
So post it! I’d love to take a gander.
I’ll have to look up the reference for you. I had a friend who was in a deep coma as a result of lung cancer invading her brain. Shortly before she died she groaned when she heard someone start to play music on a piano. How would you explain that?
 
If we are discussing the soul and the brain, it is important to discuss which performs which functions. Tonyrey claims that thinking is a function of the soul, while the evidence indicates that it is a function of the brain. It is relevant to the topic.
Where is the evidence that personality, consciousness, creativity, abstract thought, emotions, imagination, insight, inspiration, intuition, conscience, self-control and decision-making originate in the brain?
 
I’ll have to look up the reference for you. I had a friend who was in a deep coma as a result of lung cancer invading her brain. Shortly before she died she groaned when she heard someone start to play music on a piano. How would you explain that?
As a former Hospice volunteer and a hospital pastoral care volunteer, I can tell you that hearing is the sense which remains. Learning to read body language, I can also tell you that often dying patients try to express themselves, but the voice mechanism no longer works. With my dying Dad, I saw that he recognized my voice by a slight movement of his head toward me. I was singing Christmas songs to him in my unmistakably off key voice. In other words, communication comes in different forms.

One time, I brought Holy Communion to a dying woman minutes before her swallowing mechanisms closed down as was most of her body. In the corner of her eye, one tear formed.

Note: there was a TV show in which a victim from a car accident was brought to the hospital operating room and then observed as having already died. The camera captured the view from the victim’s eyes. Thus, he saw the people prepare to send him to the morgue. He tried so hard to let them know he was alive and then he realized he was doomed. His feelings rose within him. The camera lens blurred with water as if tears were forming. A nurse saw that sign of life…
I have seen a tear in real life.

I have learned to never underestimate the power of a person’s spiritual soul.

Blessings,
granny

All human life is meant for eternal life with God.
 
As a former Hospice volunteer and a hospital pastoral care volunteer, I can tell you that hearing is the sense which remains. Learning to read body language, I can also tell you that often dying patients try to express themselves, but the voice mechanism no longer works. With my dying Dad, I saw that he recognized my voice by a slight movement of his head toward me. I was singing Christmas songs to him in my unmistakably off key voice. In other words, communication comes in different forms.
Exactly. It’s been said that around 93% of communication is non-verbal (UCLA study):

humanresources.about.com/od/interpersonalcommunicatio1/a/nonverbal_com.htm
 
Where is the evidence that personality, consciousness, creativity, abstract thought, emotions, imagination, insight, inspiration, intuition, conscience, self-control and decision-making originate in the brain?
Well, you’re asking for a huge amount of evidence there, but I’ll find what I can

Personality - abcnews.go.com/Technology/Story?id=97961&page=2
Consciousness - physically affecting the brain affects consciousness.
Creativity/imagination/insight/inspiration/intuition - please define these.
Conscience - if you mean one’s sense of right and wrong, well, there are plenty of proposed biological explanations, most of them similar to “the selfish gene” concept.
Self-control - please define more precisely.
Decision-making - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decision_making#Neuroscience_perspective
Emotions - have you heard of dopamine, serotonin, etc.?
 
As a former Hospice volunteer and a hospital pastoral care volunteer, I can tell you that hearing is the sense which remains. Learning to read body language, I can also tell you that often dying patients try to express themselves, but the voice mechanism no longer works. With my dying Dad, I saw that he recognized my voice by a slight movement of his head toward me. I was singing Christmas songs to him in my unmistakably off key voice. In other words, communication comes in different forms.

One time, I brought Holy Communion to a dying woman minutes before her swallowing mechanisms closed down as was most of her body. In the corner of her eye, one tear formed.

Note: there was a TV show in which a victim from a car accident was brought to the hospital operating room and then observed as having already died. The camera captured the view from the victim’s eyes. Thus, he saw the people prepare to send him to the morgue. He tried so hard to let them know he was alive and then he realized he was doomed. His feelings rose within him. The camera lens blurred with water as if tears were forming. A nurse saw that sign of life…
I have seen a tear in real life.

I have learned to never underestimate the power of a person’s spiritual soul.

Blessings,
granny

All human life is meant for eternal life with God.
Thank you for your moving testimony - which is at the other extreme from the “persons are biological machines” explanation. 👍
 
No, it doesn’t, but it does strongly suggest that personality has a material basis.

Consider also the case of Phineas Gage:

neurophilosophy.wordpress.com/2006/12/04/the-incredible-case-of-phineas-gage/
Frankly, personality is a gray area as far as I am concerned.

But for the sake of discussion, in the real world of scientific research, that particular news story would probably go into the circular file. For something to be considered as to “strongly suggest” it needs to be in the format of scientifically accepted published research in one of the major world journals.

As far as I can tell, the person who “strongly suggests” is Lee Dye, the columnist on ABCNEWS.com, a former science writer for the Los Angeles Times, who now lives in Juneau, Alaska.

Believe me, I do understand current society’s need to see everything in materialistic terms. Getting rid of the spiritual aspect of human beings is the goal of many “isms”
from humanism ( the modern version) to utilitarianism to relativism to atheism. Fortunately or unfortunately, Catholicism is the one “ism” which champions the true dignity of human beings and truly understands the answer to “Why are we here?”

Blessings,
granny

No weight of gold or silver can measure human worth. Hymn
 
Believe me, I do understand current society’s need to see everything in materialistic terms. Getting rid of the spiritual aspect of human beings is the goal of many “isms”
from humanism ( the modern version) to utilitarianism to relativism to atheism. Fortunately or unfortunately, Catholicism is the one “ism” which champions the true dignity of human beings and truly understands the answer to “Why are we here?”
Your post reminds me of a favourite southpark episode. 😉

Society’s need to see things as materialistic is not because they want things to be materialistic, it’s because things explained in such a fashion are useful. You can make predictions with such explanation, which allows things like the computer you’re typing on to be designed.

Why are we here. I fail to see how you think your belief on the topic pertains to others. You say Catholicism is the one ism that truly understands the answer, but you’re essentially just saying “I’m right, na na na!” and ignoring the thousands of other similar explanations that have come and gone over the millennia, not to mention the still surviving ideologies that are different but still not materialistic.
 
Your post reminds me of a favourite southpark episode. 😉

Society’s need to see things as materialistic is not because they want things to be materialistic, it’s because things explained in such a fashion are useful. You can make predictions with such explanation, which allows things like the computer you’re typing on to be designed.

Why are we here. I fail to see how you think your belief on the topic pertains to others. You say Catholicism is the one ism that truly understands the answer, but you’re essentially just saying “I’m right, na na na!” and ignoring the thousands of other similar explanations that have come and gone over the millennia, not to mention the still surviving ideologies that are different but still not materialistic.
Please don’t fall into the trap of the “mutually exclusive or”, Also, please try to read “third person” expository writing as it is intended.

"“Fortunately or unfortunately, Catholicism is the one “ism” which champions the true dignity of human beings and truly understands the answer to “Why are we here?”” does not exclude other similar isms. I can think of current isms that champion the true dignity of human beings.

Catholicism is Catholicism and my name is not Catholicism so how do you really know how my belief is expressed? What was your clue that I was saying “I’m right, na na na!” ?

And what is the difference between the philosophy of materialism and the material nature of the human being?

And yes, I’ve seen a few of my kid’s favorite SouthPark episodes on tape. Big deal.:rolleyes:
 
Frankly, personality is a gray area as far as I am concerned.

But for the sake of discussion, in the real world of scientific research, that particular news story would probably go into the circular file. For something to be considered as to “strongly suggest” it needs to be in the format of scientifically accepted published research in one of the major world journals.

As far as I can tell, the person who “strongly suggests” is Lee Dye, the columnist on ABCNEWS.com, a former science writer for the Los Angeles Times, who now lives in Juneau, Alaska.

Believe me, I do understand current society’s need to see everything in materialistic terms. Getting rid of the spiritual aspect of human beings is the goal of many “isms”
from humanism ( the modern version) to utilitarianism to relativism to atheism. Fortunately or unfortunately, Catholicism is the one “ism” which champions the true dignity of human beings and truly understands the answer to “Why are we here?”

Blessings,
granny

No weight of gold or silver can measure human worth. Hymn
Personality is one of those buzz-words that doesn’t mean much. Usually it is used to describe how someone relates to others (i.e., outgoing, smiley-facey, quiet, etc.) rather than about the mind per-se. I would say personality is the “social surface” of our minds, rather than any part of the “soul” (which has itself become a buzzword).

The Gage incident is hardly a “news story” since the man died in the eighteen hundreds. It is significant because, at a time when everybody thought that personality was “spiritual,” here was an instance of physical damage profoundly changing it. Any theory of human nature and functioning has to take these evidences into account, whether one is a materialist or not.
 
Personality is one of those buzz-words that doesn’t mean much. Usually it is used to describe how someone relates to others (i.e., outgoing, smiley-facey, quiet, etc.) rather than about the mind per-se. I would say personality is the “social surface” of our minds, rather than any part of the “soul” (which has itself become a buzzword).

The Gage incident is hardly a “news story” since the man died in the eighteen hundreds. It is significant because, at a time when everybody thought that personality was “spiritual,” here was an instance of physical damage profoundly changing it. Any theory of human nature and functioning has to take these evidences into account, whether one is a materialist or not.
Any items considered non-material still need to be expressed in the material body such as it is. The problem with dualism is that the spiritual and material are considered separate from each other. Actually, they are intimately united in human nature.
 
Where is the evidence that personality, consciousness, creativity, abstract thought, emotions, imagination, insight, inspiration, intuition, conscience, self-control and decision-making originate in the brain?
Well, you’re asking for a huge amount of evidence there, but I’ll find what I can
Personality - abcnews.go.com/Technology/Story?id=97961&page=2
The fact that “the amygdala is crucial to emotional processing by the brain” is not evidence that emotions originate in the brain. We can induce emotions by choosing to meditate on a particular subject.
Consciousness - physically affecting the brain affects consciousness.
That does not mean consciousness originates in the brain.
Creativity/imagination/insight/inspiration/intuition - please define these.
Please consult any dictionary.
Conscience - if you mean one’s sense of right and wrong, well, there are plenty of proposed biological explanations, most of them similar to “the selfish gene” concept.
“proposed” is the key word. If you give us an example we can analyse it.
Self-control - please define more precisely.
Self-control is the power to control our thoughts, feelings and behaviour.
The article explains that “the anterior cingulate cortex (ACC), orbitofrontal cortex (and the overlapping ventromedial prefrontal cortex) are brain regions involved in decision making processes.”
The fact that they are involved in decision making processes does not mean that they **originate **in those regions. They process the decisions made by the mind.
Emotions - have you heard of dopamine, serotonin, etc.?
The fact that drugs affect the brain does not prove that emotions **originate **in the brain. It merely shows that drugs interfere with the way the brain communicates emotions to the body.
 
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