The Spanish Inquisition

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Righteousone said:
“The task of Inquisition was not to persecute Jews but to cleanse the church of unorthodoxy. The Inquisition was NOT concerned with infidels outside the church but with Heretics within it”---------George E. Sokolsky in his book “We Jews”.
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This is not true. Greek Orthodox were tried by the Inquisition for the crime of heresy.
 
bobzills said:
I didn’t know about this. Can you please supply a bit more background or reference for this? For example, was this approved by the Greek Patriarch, the Head of the Orthodox Church, or was it an operation of a few dissidents? What type of torture was it? Did it involve burning people alive at the stake?
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You didn’t know about this? !
There were Latin-rite Catholics living in and around Constantinople and the eastern empire. Likewise, there were eastern-rite Orthodox living in the West, particularly Italy. Western-rite religious zealots in southern Italy forced the Orthodox to offer communion the same way the Western-rite did, and they ransacked Orthodox churches and literally threw out the Eucharist from their tabernacles. In retaliation, the Patriarch of Constaninople ordered that all Latin-rite churches either serve communion the same way as the Orthodox or be closed.When most Latin-rite churches refused, they were forcibly shut and burned down to the ground.
 
The Spanish Inquistion HAS to be seen in the context of its time, under the cultural and political presssures that produced it.

In the 15th century, Spain was nearing the end of the 800-year old intermittent Reconquista. Wheras even in Christian spain there had been considerable tolerance for letting Jews and Muslims remain so, as the fall of the Muslim kingdom of Granada came into sight, society changed–especially under the quasi-racist social cult of *la limpieza–*which essentially held the only trustworthy people were those of hidalgo ancestry–meaning no Jewish or Muslim background. One curious action of laws passed under this monstrousity was that the Spanish beuracracy became dominated by people of common background–the aristocracy and even the royalty having conseiderable inter-marriage history

more to come
 
Righteousone said:
Yes 1234, you need him here to speak against Catholicism.
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My impression is that he is speaking against the methods used by the Spanish Inquisition, not against Catholicism in general. The question was whether the Spanish Inquisiton or other inquisitions were restricted to Catholics. From what I can see, he is pointing out, that there were people who were baptised under duress, and thereby considered to be Catholics. Later on, they may have had second thoughts about their conversion and did not want to give up some of their Jewish heritage, and they were punished for this. This would be unfair and unjust if the baptism was performed under duress in the frirst place.
 
bobzills said:
My impression is that he is speaking against the methods used by the Spanish Inquisition, not against Catholicism in general. The question was whether the Spanish Inquisiton or other inquisitions were restricted to Catholics. From what I can see, he is pointing out, that there were people who were baptised under duress, and thereby considered to be Catholics. Later on, they may have had second thoughts about their conversion and did not want to give up some of their Jewish heritage, and they were punished for this. This would be unfair and unjust if the baptism was performed under duress in the frirst place.
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True. Wouldn’t it be the same call with annulments?
My question is - if performed under duress, would a baptism be ‘valid’?
In the same veign, if performed under duress, would a marriage be valid?
Or, how about this one - if performed under duress, would ANY sacrament actually be valid? What
And - what would make one sacrament more valid than the other if performed under duress?
 
Righteousone said:
Yes 1234, you need him here to speak against Catholicism.
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Maybe you need to read ALL the things I have posted to this forum, eh? Maybe then you would not make ignorant comments such as the one above.

I was good friends with the late John Cardinal O’Connor (and have the voluminous correspondence to prove it), and in my work with him on Jewish-Catholic relations he had once told me that it does his heart good to meet Jews (like me) who defend the Catholic church when she deserves defending.

Its just that the Spanish Inquisition cannot BE defended, nor should it be, and the late Pope John Paul II even recognized this when he *apologized *for it.

Oh, and how many times do I have to point out that I am a SHE, not a he?
 
peary said:
True. Wouldn’t it be the same call with annulments?
My question is - if performed under duress, would a baptism be ‘valid’?
In the same veign, if performed under duress, would a marriage be valid?
Or, how about this one - if performed under duress, would ANY sacrament actually be valid? What
And - what would make one sacrament more valid than the other if performed under duress?
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The thing is, in Catholicism, baptism is (usually) regarded as a permanent sacrament. However, there were Popes (such as Martin V) who ruled that forced baptisms were invalid.

Then there was the infamous Edgar Mortara case, in Italy in the 1800s…when a Jewish child was kidnapped by Catholics, baptized, and then even the Pope ruled that because the child was baptized, he MUST remain with Catholics and be raised as such.

I guess it all depends on which Pope is in power at the time.
 
HashemEchad said:
Maybe you need to read ALL the things I have posted to this forum, eh? Maybe then you would not make ignorant comments such as the one above.

I was good friends with the late John Cardinal O’Connor (and have the voluminous correspondence to prove it), and in my work with him on Jewish-Catholic relations he had once told me that it does his heart good to meet Jews (like me) who defend the Catholic church when she deserves defending.

Its just that the Spanish Inquisition cannot BE defended, nor should it be, and the late Pope John Paul II even recognized this when he *apologized *for it.

Oh, and how many times do I have to point out that I am a SHE, not a he?
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Really? When did he apologize for it? Please tell me date and where you saw it.
The Spanish Inquisition was grossly over estimated by the Jews and I have read 3 books from Jewish authors who agree. Are they lying?
I have seen a few of your posts always relating to Catholics, how one was beat up b/c they said you were a “Christ killer”, another one that said conversion to Catholicism for the mentally unbalanced, I know what you posted here. I don’t think that is defending Catholicism as you put it.
 
Righteousone said:
Really? When did he apologize for it? Please tell me date and where you saw it.
The Spanish Inquisition was grossly over estimated by the Jews and I have read 3 books from Jewish authors who agree. Are they lying?
I have seen a few of your posts always relating to Catholics, how one was beat up b/c they said you were a “Christ killer”, another one that said conversion to Catholicism for the mentally unbalanced, I know what you posted here. I don’t think that is defending Catholicism as you put it.
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Just doing a very quick search I turned up this:

catholiceducation.org/articles/history/world/wh0029.html

especially this part:
Learning from our mistakes

Despite these facts, Pope John Paul II warns us:

Yet the consideration of mitigating factors does not exonerate the Church from the obligation to express profound regret for the weaknesses of so many of her sons and daughters who sullied her face, preventing her from fully mirroring the image of her crucified Lord, the supreme witness of patient love and of humble meekness. From these painful moments of the past a lesson can be drawn for the future, leading all Christians to adhere fully to the sublime principle stated by the Council: “The truth cannot impose itself except by virtue of its own truth, as it wins over the mind with both gentleness and power.”2

Endnotes:

Pope John Paul II, “Address to the International Symposium on the Inquisition,” October 31, 1998.
Pope John Paul II, Tertio Millennio Adveniente, no. 35, quoting Vatican II, Declaration on Religious Freedom Dignitatis Humanae, no. 1.
<<<<<<<<<

But I will find the formal apology as well.

Ah, here is just one news article from 2000 about it:

cbsnews.com/stories/2000/03/12/world/main171032.shtml

I could post many more. Would you like the formal text from the Vatican website as well? Let me know and I’ll look it up.

BTW calling yourself “RighteousOne”, doesn’t that involve a Catholic sin of presumption? Only God can determine who is genuinely righteous, or “saved”, right?
 
Please don’t look into my name “Righteousone”, and use that because you don’t like what I say to you. It is not a ‘sin’ to have a name as I do, but it is a ‘sin’ to reject Christ. Look to yourself.
 
HashemEchad said:
BTW calling yourself “RighteousOne”, doesn’t that involve a Catholic sin of presumption? Only God can determine who is genuinely righteous, or “saved”, right?
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No, the mistake was leaving the ‘Self’ off the beginning! 😃
 
HashemEchad said:
Oh, and “Righteous”? No comment yet, I see, even though I provided you with PROOF of Pope John Paul 2’s apology for the wrongs committed by Catholics against Jews and others?

Want to see the official text?

Here it is, straight from the Vatican website, no less. Start reading from number 35 on down for the info you want:

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_10111994_tertio-millennio-adveniente_en.html
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I wouldn’t worry so much what the pope said, but worry about what Jesus said…and if I were to list websites containing atrocities against Christians, I’d be here all day AND all night. but it is a beautiful day today and I must go and enjoy it. Peace.
 
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