The Spirit of Jesus

[BeingSaved]

This is the whole point of this part of the discussion, for me anyway,…

God = 3 in One
Father, Son(Jesus), Holy Spirit

Each one is God

The Holy Spirit is not the Father’s Spirit, necessarily, He is His Own Person

Jesus is His Own Person

The Father is HIs Own Person

All 3 are God

The Spirit of Jesus MAY NOT be the Holy Spirit, necessarily,
because the Holy Spirit is one of the triune God, He is His Own Person, separate from Jesus, just as the Father is separate from Jesus, and the Holy Spirit is separate from
Jesus and the Father. See what I am trying to say?

 

[BeingSaved]

Well it can be that in the Old testament, Jesus wasn’t fully known (or as the Word), so the Holy Spirit wasn’t already understood like Jesus’ Spirit.
Second, Look at Genesis, God being a Spirit, why does he have the Holy Spirit “with Him”?
Because, being the same (Essence), they are different Persons, and we cannot describe it better.

ok, in the OT Jesus wasn’t known the way He is in NT but, “Spirit of Jesus” is written in the NT where Jesus is known, and the Holy Spirit is known.

Im not trying to split hairs, just saying that from my experience, the Bible is Packed Out with all kinds of info. What at first seems random, may instead contain a wealth of info.

 

[MarcoPG]

ok, in the OT Jesus wasn’t known the way He is in NT but, “Spirit of Jesus” is written in the NT where Jesus is known, and the Holy Spirit is known.

Im not trying to split hairs, just saying that from my experience, the Bible is Packed Out with all kinds of info. What at first seems random, may instead contain a wealth of info.

I understand what you mean, but precisely the understanding of the New Testament should help. The Holy spirit, being a Person in the Trinity and the Spirit of God, then Jesus being the Son and a Person, receiving everything from the Father (a Person) then the Essence is One and the Being is One in Three.
We agree. Because these Three are One (not quoting the KJ here ), the One Spirit of God is the Spirit of the Father and/or the Son.

If you mean by Spirit of Jesus his soul, then yes: Jesus as a man had a soul as we do, which is also spirit (divine part of the self); having 2 wills, human and divine, he has but one soul/spirit which is the Fahters and His, who works in accordance with the Father and The Son.

There is another way: even if the analogy is not perfect, you could see the Holy Spirit as the love between the Father and the Son (not diminishing His personality). Then you would get that this Love is the same from the Father to the Son, and back from the Son to the Father.

This Spirit of God or Spirit of Love, since God is Love, is necessarily the Spirit of the Son too, and refered as Spirit of Jesus the Son of God.

I am running out of arguments, and running in cirlces i guess:blush:

 

[MartinJordan]

If you finish the part of Acts 16, in question from 6-10 instead of stopping at verse 7, we have Paul concluding that God, is calling him to go to Macedonia, after his dream of a man in Macedonia calling for his help.

Therefore, the Holy Spirit, and the Spirit of Jesus is the same. Just two of the three Persons of God.

What we do not want here is start over thinking things about the Mystery of the Trinity. I can guarantee it can drive one crazy!

MJ

 

[BeingSaved]

I understand what you mean, but precisely the understanding of the New Testament should help. The Holy spirit, being a Person in the Trinity and the Spirit of God, then Jesus being the Son and a Person, receiving everything from the Father (a Person) then the Essence is One and the Being is One in Three.
We agree. Because these Three are One (not quoting the KJ here ), the One Spirit of God is the Spirit of the Father and/or the Son.

If you mean by Spirit of Jesus his soul, then yes: Jesus as a man had a soul as we do, which is also spirit (divine part of the self); having 2 wills, human and divine, he has but one soul/spirit which is the Fahters and His, who works in accordance with the Father and The Son.

There is another way: even if the analogy is not perfect, you could see the Holy Spirit as the love between the Father and the Son (not diminishing His personality). Then you would get that this Love is the same from the Father to the Son, and back from the Son to the Father.

This Spirit of God or Spirit of Love, since God is Love, is necessarily the Spirit of the Son too, and refered as Spirit of Jesus the Son of God.

I am running out of arguments, and running in cirlces i guess:blush:

interesting idea you presented,…not running in circles…
is this your idea,.
or is this what CC has made,…um written down,…

another reason I ask, Not for the purpose of hair splitting,.but
because of bible reading,…and trying to study it,…
We are made in the image of God, and we are body, spirit (where God dwells) and soul (mind will and emotions) - right?
because we are in His image,…then He must have the same,…
each one must have their own,…each of the three,

Because they are three individuals, inside One ‘God’ …right?

Father, Son and Holy Spirit, 3 individuals, …if there are individual persons, inside the One Godhead,…then H. Sp.
HAS to BE more than the Spirit of Jesus and the Father, where they are joined,…
think of the symbol for the trinity,…the three interwoven, interlocking oval shapes,…
they each are their own, and they are perfectly balanced,…(I think this came from st. Patrick’s clover, the idea for it)

If the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father, AND the Spirit of Jesus (where they intersect)
THEN the Holy Spirit cannot be a PERSON in His own right, instead, He is their Spirit.

See what I am trying to say?

 

[BeingSaved]

If you finish the part of Acts 16, in question from 6-10 instead of stopping at verse 7, we have Paul concluding that God, is calling him to go to Macedonia, after his dream of a man in Macedonia calling for his help.

Therefore, the Holy Spirit, and the Spirit of Jesus is the same. Just two of the three Persons of God.

What we do not want here is start over thinking things about the Mystery of the Trinity. I can guarantee it can drive one crazy!

MJ

well , my purpose isn’t to try to be argumentative and split hairs, it is to find out
more and also, it is because I had a diff. picture of the 3 in 1, and I don’t want to change my picture until I know more-

 

[CB_Catholic]

interesting idea you presented,…not running in circles…
is this your idea,.
or is this what CC has made,…um written down,…

another reason I ask, Not for the purpose of hair splitting,.but
because of bible reading,…and trying to study it,…
We are made in the image of God, and we are body, spirit (where God dwells) and soul (mind will and emotions) - right?
because we are in His image,…then He must have the same,…
each one must have their own,…each of the three,

Because they are three individuals, inside One ‘God’ …right?

Father, Son and Holy Spirit, 3 individuals, …if there are individual persons, inside the One Godhead,…then H. Sp.
HAS to BE more than the Spirit of Jesus and the Father, where they are joined,…
think of the symbol for the trinity,…the three interwoven, interlocking oval shapes,…
they each are their own, and they are perfectly balanced,…(I think this came from st. Patrick’s clover, the idea for it)

If the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father, AND the Spirit of Jesus (where they intersect)
THEN the Holy Spirit cannot be a PERSON in His own right, instead, He is their Spirit.

See what I am trying to say?

No. I believe your concept is not correct. They are not 3 persons who are '“inside” the Godhead, they are 3 persons who ARE the Godhead. They may be 3 Divine Persons, but they are what we call consubstantial–of the same substance. They cannot be separated because they are of one substance–they are ONE. This is a great mystery, and we will never fully comprehend it. Because they are of the same substance, the Holy Spirit is also the Spirit of Jesus. They are not separate Spirits.

Jesus tried to explain this when He said “The Father and I are One”. “Who has seen the Father has seen Me”. Here is an article from the Catholic Encyclopedia that may help you understand (as if anyone could fully understand):

newadvent.org/cathen/07409a.htm

 

[MartinJordan]

well , my purpose isn’t to try to be argumentative and split hairs, it is to find out
more and also, it is because I had a diff. picture of the 3 in 1, and I don’t want to change my picture until I know more-

I never said you are trying to be argumentative. Just perhaps over thinking it.

Luke who wrote the Acts was inspired by the Holy Spirit to write the way he did to people of that time, those who converted to Christianity. In the end there is still one God the** Father,** who reveals himself through his beloved Son.

No mixes and contradictions. Take it on Faith and it is beautiful!:harp:

MJ

 

[MarcoPG]

Concerning my reply to you, Beingsaved, It is not my idea or opinion, I am trying to explain with my words how you could accept (not necessarily understand) the Trinity as God is.

Every analogy, metaphor, comparison (the worst idea for explaining something) can’t render in full something that is not the World. We must get closer and closer to God as it is, but will never be able to “show” Him with words.

So yes, the intersections say something about God, but let also something out. As humans, to define a Tri-Une God, we tend to emphasize the three Persons different from each other (which is true) and by doing this the one Essence escapes us somehow. So then we add the idea that the Essence of God is one, and then…yes we run in circles, as some of the imagery used for the Trinity, the circle being, motion, dynamism, infinity, giving, taking, sharing, eternally.

If one tries to concentrate on the differences of the Persons, maybe, could see why the Spirit is of both Son and father.

Creation: The Spirit of God was there with God (Father and Spirit) and God said (Word)

The Prophets: talk about God the Father thanks to the Spirit of God (H. SP.) and then you see somehow that a divine Son of Man is there with God and is given the power of god.

Then after the Resurrection, once again, Jesus says all the power has been given to me. Since the Son gives live (as the Father does) and the Live is the Spirit of God, then the Son gives the Spirit as his, from the Father in accordance with Him.

As God during the creation of Man, breathes and gives the Spirit, so does Jesus with the Apostles, not saying that the Father gives the Spirit through Him, but that He Jesus gives Him from the Father.