The Star of Bethlehem (A Documentary/website)

[Vince1022]

"I’ve never come across anyone who claimed Jesus was 40 or more years old. Any reference for that? "

Modern reference? You’ll know what I’ll say.

I don’t understand. Can you clarify? Thanks.

But isn’t the inference in the Gospel of John enough of starting point to make it a reasonable if not valid assumption? John was written by an eyewitness, who might have heard the exchange personally. And John says nothing about Jesus’ birth.

There are no inferences in the Gospel of John. There are implications. What one infers is just that…what an individual reader interprets or assumes. What exact assumption are you referring to? Sorry, I didn’t understand.

The Gospel of John may or may not have been written by an eyewitness. Most Catholic scholars I am familiar with say it was not. Either way is fine. The Catholic Church does not require Catholics believe the Gospel of John was written by an eyewitness.

Yes, John says nothing about Jesus’ human birth, which seems to suggest John’s Gospel is not a good reference for Jesus’ age? Or did I misunderstand your point?

Luke, of course, was written by a late convert who wrote his Gospel based on second and third hand accounts (or later).

Regardless of Luke’s sources, the Gospel of Luke is every bit as inspired and true as all the other Gospels.

 

[Vince1022]

Saint Irenaeus in Against Heresies. Patristic scholars generally acknowledge that he is stretching the truth in order to fit his thesis about recapitulation. I think he’s the only one that has really said this. Apologist Mark Bonocore has an interesting explanation for Irenaeus’ words, but it honestly seems a bit strained. It seems more likely that Irenaeus played loose with the facts to make a theological point.

Thanks! Can you point me to the specific part of Against Heresies? If you know it…just curious…again thanks.

 

[Vince1022]

The only way out of the gospel of John conundrum is to assume that the “fifty” was in error, or that the age a fifty was some sort of hallmark year in the life of a Rabbi, which made him more believable or maybe he automatically attained a higher station. So saying the 33 year old Jesus was “not yet fifty” would make more sense.
This is not totally out of the question, as the Pentecost was 50 days after the Passover. The Jews placed great significance the number seven, and fifty is one day after the passage of seven weeks.

Sorry, I likely missed something. What is the “fifty” you are referring to regarding the Gospel of John (or something else)? Thanks.

 

[Barbkw]

Interested in the Bethlehem Star?

Next Monday, Dec. 13 at 12:30 a.m., TBN (DISH Channel 260) will reshow the documentary “Star of Bethlehem”. Set your timer for 90 minutes. I recorded it last night and the DVR cut off the last 15 minutes or so of the program.

“Star of Bethlehem” presents one possible theory about the connection between Scripture and the cosmos. “Bethlehem Star” will explore ancient star formations using modern star and planet tracking computers used today in astromony.

Josephus and Philo and the Books of Job, Genesis, Revelation, Daniel, the Acts of the Apostles, and the Gospels of Matthew, Luke, and John are all brought into discussion during the presentation.

www.bethlehemstar.net

 

[steve53]

Sorry, I likely missed something. What is the “fifty” you are referring to regarding the Gospel of John (or something else)? Thanks.

John 8:57, 58 So the Jews said to him, 'You are not yet fifty years old.

 

[Nathan_Wagar]

Thanks! Can you point me to the specific part of Against Heresies? If you know it…just curious…again thanks.

No problem. Book 2, Ch. 22.

 

[InspiritCarol]

Yah. This is good stuff.
I highly recommend it.
Better to cut out the first 15 minutes than the last, though.
We even showed it to an Athiest science Prof we know and he couldn’t come up with any objections to the science of it except for doubting the naming conventions of constellations at the time, which I was able to look up and prove to him easily.

Watch with your whole family and your friends.

 

[runningdude]

I was asking about the date of birth, not death, and nowhere does the Bible say Jesus was “about 33” does it? What source(s) are you referring to in order to suggest Jesus was about 33 when he died?

The discrepancy in the year of Jesus’ birth has nothing to do with when he died.

Rather, it was an error (many think) in the revision of the calendar done by Dionysius Exiguus in the 6th century.

In Luke 3:23, Saint Luke states that Christ was about 30 when he began His public ministry. It is a long standing Christian tradition that His ministry lasted 3 years. Hence, 33

I believe this number can be inferred from counting the number of Passovers or other Jewish holidays, but I’m not sure. This site, which uses logic similar to Larson’s in the DVD/Website, explains it more detail than I care to go into : gotquestions.org/length-Jesus-ministry.html

 

[Vince1022]

John 8:57, 58 So the Jews said to him, 'You are not yet fifty years old.

Thanks! I was not aware of that.

Still, that passage does not mean Jesus was 40 or 50 years old when he was crucified.

There must be something significant, though, with the Gospel mentioning 50 years. Hmmm. I’ll see if I can find anything. Thanks again.

 

[Vince1022]

No problem. Book 2, Ch. 22.

Thanks!

Interesting read.

I guess that’s one thing Irenaeus got wrong, most likely. Meaning, yes of course it could be true, but the vast majority of scholarship and opinions would not agree with that idea.

Either way, all good. Thanks again for the reference.

 

[Vince1022]

In Luke 3:23, Saint Luke states that Christ was about 30 when he began His public ministry. It is a long standing Christian tradition that His ministry lasted 3 years.

Yes, perhaps a long standing tradition…but the only Gospel that supports such a view is John’s. The Synoptic Gospels’ presentations of Jesus’ ministry could easily have been one year in length.

 

[Vince1022]

Interested in the Bethlehem Star?

Next Monday, Dec. 13 at 12:30 a.m., TBN (DISH Channel 260) will reshow the documentary “Star of Bethlehem”. Set your timer for 90 minutes. I recorded it last night and the DVR cut off the last 15 minutes or so of the program.

“Star of Bethlehem” presents one possible theory about the connection between Scripture and the cosmos. “Bethlehem Star” will explore ancient star formations using modern star and planet tracking computers used today in astromony.

Josephus and Philo and the Books of Job, Genesis, Revelation, Daniel, the Acts of the Apostles, and the Gospels of Matthew, Luke, and John are all brought into discussion during the presentation.

www.bethlehemstar.net

There are four Gospels, and only one refers to this star. So, how important is it, really?

Of the 27 books of Scripture in the New Testament, it’s only the Gospel of Matthew that refers to this, right?

So, theologically, what’s the real concern here? Just curious.

 

[runningdude]

Thanks! I was not aware of that.

Still, that passage does not mean Jesus was 40 or 50 years old when he was crucified.

There must be something significant, though, with the Gospel mentioning 50 years. Hmmm. I’ll see if I can find anything. Thanks again.

I don’t think the Pharosee’s would scold someone in their forty’s for preaching simply because he was “not yet fifty”. This sounds more like the old farts among the elite chiding a young wipper-snapper (a thirty-something from Nazareth perhaps ).

 

[InspiritCarol]

There are four Gospels, and only one refers to this star. So, how important is it, really?

Of the 27 books of Scripture in the New Testament, it’s only the Gospel of Matthew that refers to this, right?

So, theologically, what’s the real concern here? Just curious.

REALLY??? You weight the importance of an occurrence by how many gospels reported it?

Jesus only raised the dead in the gospel of John. Not important to you?
Let’s see: the Annunciation; Mary visiting Elizabeth; the Presentation; and Jesus teaching at the temple are all only found in one gospel. Guess you need to tell the Magesterium to throw out the Joyful Mysteries of the Rosary because they just aren’t important.
But you didn’t REALLY mean that, right?
Be that as it may, the star itself is of very little importance in light of the salvation of Jesus, which is likely why it’s not discussed by the others. However, “The Star of Bethlehem” is not so much about the “star” but about significant PROVABLE and demonstrable astronomical events (yes that’s plural) that occurred in the way they are described in the bible. It clearly displays the accuracy of the Church authority in having selected both Dec. 25th and Easter in a way we never expected or needed.

Old Testament prophesy is discussed and incorporated as well along with the Book of Revelation.

It IS moving.

Watch it or don’t. At least it’s a Christmas show about Christ, which seems to be getting more and more rare these days.

 

[Vince1022]

REALLY??? You weight the importance of an occurrence by how many gospels reported it?

No. I never said that.

But, when talking about historical facts, the number of references of historical sources is a necessary and legitimate criterion upon which to base a judgment.

Jesus only raised the dead in the gospel of John. Not important to you?
Let’s see: the Annunciation; Mary visiting Elizabeth; the Presentation; and Jesus teaching at the temple are all only found in one gospel. Guess you need to tell the Magesterium to throw out the Joyful Mysteries of the Rosary because they just aren’t important.
But you didn’t REALLY mean that, right?

Again, you are reacting and responding to things I never said. Please, calm down.

Be that as it may, the star itself is of very little importance in light of the salvation of Jesus,

Wait, didn’t you just chastise me for not considering it necessarily important?

but about significant PROVABLE and demonstrable astronomical events (yes that’s plural) that occurred in the way they are described in the bible.

Your provable and demonstrable references for such a theory? Thanks.

 

[runningdude]

Your provable and demonstrable references for such a theory? Thanks.

Haha, that’s what this thread is all about (The DVD/website! )

 

[InspiritCarol]

No. I never said that.

But, when talking about historical facts, the number of references of historical sources is a necessary and legitimate criterion upon which to base a judgment.

You claim to not say a thing and then reiterate the very thing. Make up your mind.

Again, you are reacting and responding to things I never said. Please, calm down.

Calm down? You are inferring disquiet where there is none. NO. I merely point out that you are quite mistaken to assign significance based purely on the number of gospels that report it; WHICH you are.

Wait, didn’t you just chastise me for not considering it necessarily important?

My goodness, are we to be one dimensional now? I can hold to the fact that the number of gospels that report an event in Jesus’ life has nothing whatsoever to do with the importance/significcance of said event; YET at the same time, I can capitulate to your statement and point out that it’s inaccurate on another level entirely.

Your provable and demonstrable references for such a theory? Thanks.

Not “references”. You’re missing the whole point. It’s astronomy software. It’s math. DEMONSTRABLE math. Scripture may fit into that math. That’s really fun to watch. If you feel the need to be a joy-kill, you could at least WATCH the thing to make a real argument against it. THAT would be useful.

THIS is silly.

 

[jmcdzzz]

Sorry, there was no eclipse either. The crucifixion took place during a full moon (so no solar eclipse) and ‘darkness covered the earth’ would make no sense for a lunar eclipse.

A total lunar eclipse always occurs during a full moon.

 

[jmcdzzz]

A total lunar eclipse always occurs during a full moon.

OOPS! I read it wrong. I wish this site would allow us to delete our idiotic foibles.

 

[InspiritCarol]

OOPS! I read it wrong. I wish this site would allow us to delete our idiotic foibles.

Ah yes. That would be a really nice feature on life too. I did, however notice that you CAN delete a post if you catch the “oops” quickly. Not sure if it’s event driven (eg someone quotes you) or time-delay. Anyone else notice?