The Strange Case of the Atheist Believer

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Here, I’d like to say that I believe a majority (if not all) of Atheists want to believe in some God. Many, I believe would noteworthy want to believe and trust the God of the Judeo-Christian religion, if not Muslim. Or of a sound Theist (Monotheist) Religion.

Many, I believe desire and hunger, want to believe.

Any atheist who has the the sense and sobriety to call out all things that are wrong in the world is rightly so to say why he or she cannot, or does not believe in God. Like the blind man who wants to believe in the Son of Man.

Atheists are not people who want to be fickle, foolish, and jump into a lake (like Saint Peter, they may jump with faith.) But they will soon sink. And scramble seeking God to show and reveal Himself (as Christ did, holding up Saint Peter.)

But in the world we live in is not a world of atheism. As it is a world of Agnosticism. It’s not a world of care or concern to believe. That like doubting Saint Thomas. But a world of indifference.

Not all agnostics are people who are entirely indifferent altogether, either. It is, for them either a gradient climb, or a climb, and then a slip and fall. And sliding back. Or a struggle between light and darkness. Perhaps the instant and moment the blind man goes through the uncertainty he is getting his eye sight. Since he was born without it. Meaning, he does not know exactly what that eye sight is! Momentary the agnostic seems to be.

But today’s world, is not the gradient climb, nor the struggle between light and darkness. But an indifference to both. Not even a struggle to believe.

The sub-culture as transgenderism. To prove a point, is exactly it! It doesn’t matter if you are male or female. There are not two genders, but many!

Thus, it’s an indifference. This dysphoria is quite the gender agnostic (indifference.)
 
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#2
The only thing standing for the atheist, amidst this confusion, is to explain and defend reality. Yet denying God exists, because he cannot see. As though the blind man at the portico, at the temple, trying to defend reality. Whence he cannot, because he cannot see that reality.

The world of agnostics have made, again, its’ sudden turn back (as it laid open the way for the so-called Super Human Race back during the Great War.)

Agnosticism is the Nihilistic indifference of meaninglessness and nothingness. Leaving the soul neutral to about anything, and everything.

Anti-Theism find its’ way.

That is the Strange case of the Atheistic believer. He or she will not be satisfied in a world of indifference. It ceases the desire for the truth (more notably and noteworthy, the “Truth.”) Which is not man. Which not man who thinks he is a god. Or thinks he is God. But the Lamb Who was slain in Calvary.

This is the necessity of the Atheist to reach the point, the Source and Summit of the Catholic Faith.

The Atheist cannot otherwise believe. The admittance of blindness, and the desire to want to believe and see (As Saint Thomas the Apostle recounted.)

The Atheist is not a fool. He knows he is not God. That no man may become God. That no man is God. The Atheist namely knows that he is not. And therefore must be aided by graces, signs, and wonders not to appeal to his appetite and curiosity of mind. Though these do well to enchant him. Rather, he wants to do more than believe. He wants to trust. He wants to be as a trusting child is to a parent. To truly see and believe as the blind man. As even Saint Thomas the Apostle.

The Atheist does seek the reality and splendor of God. Not the reality and splendor of man trying to call himself a god. The Atheist wants to witness the Sacrifice on Calvary. Who wants to believe in Christ Jesus who did heal the leper, the paralytic, the sick, and raising the dead from their graves. The Atheist wants the real thing. In fact, if Our Lady can provide the Atheist an indispensable miracle, he or she is happy to believe.

But the agnostic, who does not care either way, doesn’t. But wants to live in an indifference cut off from reality. Cut off from the truth. In a world destined to the devil and Hell. Wherefore, for that agnostic, it is the last and final great temptation. Which he or she may desire to believe. For as tepid, indifferent, and lukewarm, does the Truth and all reality spit the Agnostic out. But not the Atheist, because he or she truly wants to believe (as the faithful who continue to visit Our Lady, and make pilgrimage to Her. To take great care and trust in Her Son, Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God.)
 
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Not so strange.
I have a relative who toggles between atheist and agnostic.
During her agnostic phases she prays and even in her atheist phases she believes that prayer works.
A lot of times our personal philosophy is a kind of hodgepodge of our life experience, the books we’ve read, the conversations we’ve had with friends and even our own innate wiring.
As believers, we respond to this by drawing close to Jesus and ministering to others.
 
Do you know many atheists and agnostics? I know many, and most tend to be cheerful, positive people who are happy with the lives they live. They are deep thinkers and intelligent. They are open-minded and what I consider to be life-learners (always learning and seeking). They are far more content with the concept of death than any religious people I know. They are quite comfortable in their beliefs.

Your description doesn’t match with those atheists and agnostics I know.
 
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This is a gross misunderstanding…of essentially everything.
 
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At the moment the man who was blind, began to have sight. A perplexing arrangement of colors and images settle on his eyes. And in his mind, from experience, moving about in the the darkness (which once he had been.) It is still in his capacity in reason to understand from the darkness into this strange transition into the light. The Light being that of the Son of Man, God’s Only Begotten Son. That the bind man may believe.

But for a moment, as the colors, light, objects, and things which he never saw before. But believed! Because, he moved about and had a sense, feel, and touch what water was. And also had people around him. But he never saw them. The voices, the sounds, the water pouring through the portico. All his sense and reason, knowing what these things were in the dark, were now coming to light.

But he still had from his “hodgepodge” of experiences, that when Christ said do you believe in the Son of Man? The blind man asked to see Him so that he may believe. Which Christ accounts the the blind man’s faith, telling him that he saw Him. But it was first through trust in his blindness, knowing the Son of God through his blindness. Thus, the Atheist, so-to-speak at first. Then, the agnostic asking to see the Son of man so that he may believe. And then, becoming the Theist, wherefore he affirms to the Pharisee’s, when asked.

The gradient climb through darkness into the light. And with the agnostic uncertainty, but wanting to believe.

However, today’s culture is an indifference.

But, can I say that the majority of souls are indifferent?

Maybe not. But, I can say that those who say to call Jesus their savior, as an example. That they are saved. Become indifferent to sin.

Their indifference is that sin could cause them to stumble and fall. Believing once saved, is always saved.

Or those who profess to be non-religious. Or non-theist. To be fair and honest, I do not know how if they are a majority or not.

However, how many people care about unborn children in the womb, to really question the rationale of abortion?

If I had to take some sample pool of the population on the barometric reading of the culture. It would be this: Namely, looking back, at least in the U.S. and Europe, Canada, and the Western World in general (let alone 3rd world countries.) The sincere prospect of people wanting to sincerely look at the fact of there being human life being wronged by error of death (unjustly put to death.)

The culture is an absolute indifference. A majority of people who voted for even one candidate in the last election in the U.S., to take example. Did not care whether the unborn person was being murdered or not.

That tells me the culture slants towards an agnosticism that is not in the moment of someone trying to see or believe in the Truth. Or some part of being the truth. And this is not saying all Agnostics. However, it’s a culture that can be called Agnosticism that really holds and yields in indifference.
 
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The serious question of life beginning in the womb, at conception should not just be a conversation around political talks and debates at coffee shops. But it should be a sincere ambition for the public, with scrutiny, to know whether life really begins at conception. And if so, that undeniably when abortion is committed, that is ending (killing, murdering) innocent human life. People would show much more fervor to find out, even putting a stop to an election, just to find out the truth. However, society does not. And runs its’ own happy course, as innocent lives die.
 
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Agnosticism can be a healthy place to land, for awhile. Saying, “I don’t know” is a forerunner to…knowing, if it’s going to happen. To want to remain in ignorance is a different matter; that would be acedia.
 
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Agnostic can mean an indifference. It does not matter. And that was the point I made.

Atheists are non-theists. Meaning, they do not believe. But in truth, many, a majority I believe want to believe.

Agnostics can have that part in the fact they also seek.

I do not know how many atheists who became agnostics. Or, how many agnostics have been steadily agnostic, but though uncertain of what that truth is, believe. But looking through, as Saint Paul put it, through a glass darkly.

But that’s not what I mean by this culture, that can be called an Indifference. A type of Agnosticism. Think, the German’s. Did they really care about the murder of Jewish people? The real right and wrong? Did they actually believe hell existed? How many German’s bowed to the National Socialists of Germany? But were so-called Christians?

The fact that Jewish people were taken out of their homes, German people became scared and did not fight back to the armistice of military forefront. And, that they allowed every ill and sin under the sun to happen. That is what happens in a culture of Indifference. Or a type of Agnosticism. This happens today for the unborn child, who risks abortion and losing their life altogether.

The Strange case is the Atheist wants to believe. However, this world tries to inoculate and numb the atheist down to not an Agnosticism of sincerely seeking answers (this would be a step up.) Rather, its’ the Agnosticism taking a step down. A taking a step back. Settling for this world and all that there is, and no more. Not the reality of Truth. But just as in the time of Noah.

The Agnostic of today is simply put, as Josef Ratzinger placed it out: A Moral Relativist. That there really is no truth at all.
 
JMMJ said:
Do you know many atheists and agnostics? I know many, and most tend to be cheerful, positive people who are happy with the lives they live. They are deep thinkers and intelligent. They are open-minded and what I consider to be life-learners (always learning and seeking). They are far more content with the concept of death than any religious people I know. They are quite comfortable in their beliefs.
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Being “comfortable” in one’s beliefs isn’t necessarily a great sign. For even people who feel content on suicide, can be sufficiently heralded as happy death people. However, no person who often seeks suicide as a cure of an ailment of suffering, are happy. For the suffering does quite the contrary to their happiness. Which they seek the expressive end to it. Which, honesty, they end up seeking an end to themselves, not their suffering. For, it is the suffering that takes place flushing them out from life to seek to live no more. Sure, they are “freed” from suffering. However, they are not “free” to be around. The patient is treated as the source of the problem and ailment than what ails them.

Christianity has never been the religion of comforts. Nor has it settled for the truth because of that promise. Rather, it is quite really the opposite reason. The Truth (Christ Himself, God’s Only Begotten Son) did not make life comfortable. But to be alive, is not to be settled. Thirsting for righteousness, thirsting for more. Unquenchable thirst.

That is key. The Christian faith is one that is daring. Not to settle. Not to just be content. But desire for something more! Hyperstatic Union with the Truth. As in the Communion of Saints! That’s the reality of Christianity. Not to settle for less.

Thus, a real and true sign of an Agnostic would be desiring never to be content. Never to seek for comfort. But to live as a saint.
 
I think your understanding of atheist is way off. All atheists I know, have no desire to believe. In fact most did believe and now have a desire to never believe again (and regret having believed in the first place).
 
#1
Atheist = A non-theist. However, that is a meaning. What people tend to do as atheists is a different manner than the meaning of the word. But, there are atheists who hold to suffering and evil. At least most common objections to the God of Judaism and Christianity.

That means those are obstacles or hindrances. And many hold to contradictions in saying: “What sort of loving God would do this or let this happen?”

Those are atheists who have a valid reason for being an atheist, no less the valid reason the blind man cannot reach the water himself in the portico. Wherefore when Christ stands in his midst, gives him more than the water, but his sight!

The atheist, I believe, in general, wants to believe (as the blind man, wants to see!)

But when you are born in blindness, and what you understand through your other senses. You cannot enable to see on your own. Nor could you imagine what sight is! Since the blind man had no sense of it, even being lost, when he was born. Because, he was born without it. That would be the consequence of the fall to the atheist, sin. As to why he cannot believe in God, as the hindrance of blindness exceeds the blindman.

If an atheist says he just does not care, or never wants to believe. It’s more than likely, if they never want to believe. There is a reason. Pain, hurt, trauma. Or seeing suffering in the world.
 
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If the Atheist stood at Calvary? Would he (or she) not see as the Centurion saw? Or every Roman non-believer?

This man, called a Carpenter, and a Jewish Rabbi. Was killed. Because claims that He was the Son of God. The Jewish people had the right to be skeptical. Even the Centurion, as many men claimed the same.

But why His death? For were not all the other men like Simon the Magician just as well received for that claim? Even if these men were considered lesser gods among themselves?

By why Christ? Why this man? Because as the Centurion saw and said: “Truly He was the Son of God.”

Suffering is understood in the Judeo-Christian world. The event and outcome of sin. The defect and fall.

Even an atheist understands this when it comes to crime, or when children are disobedient to parents. It’s not necessarily the work of a treatise or religious belief. Or some Theology that the Atheist understands this by. But, as the Centurion notably saw on Calvary.

For this man to say: “Father, forgive them, they do not know what they do.” When this man says to His own Mother to take in one of His Disciples as Her son. And His Disciple to take in His Mother as his own. When He refuses to drink the hemlock mixed wine. But only finally drinking the sour wine on hyssop. And finally saying: “I commend my spirit.”

He had command over His death. The Agony, the Passion, the Carrying of the Cross. What this man was put through. And did not stop. Truly, as the Centurion said, He was the Son of God.

This tribute to Him, enabled many to follow Him. These arose the Martyrs (or Witnesses.)

What an Atheist needs, as even the Agnostic does (as Pontius Pilate: “what is truth?” They need saints. And more importantly to be one!

That is the answer and remedy to their hindrance, is to be a saint. They refuse, because in today’s culture, saints lack in the Western World. There are many in developing countries. But they lack in the Western World. Hence, why there are those who do not want to believe.
 
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I think you’re doing an extraordinarily good job of convincing yourself, to convince others you might find it a good idea to listen to them first.
 
I have used a word: Atheist. Which means a non-theist. That’s a word with a definition. Thus, I’m not convincing myself, or anyone anything. Except that is a word. That’s what it means.

People who are atheists, vary. As, well they are human beings: A conscience, and a soul. No one needs to be convinced of that. It’s obvious.

What I have also done is taken another word: Agnostic. Or, Agnosticism.

That word can mean Indifference. Someone can say they are agnostic to the situation. Very generally and aptly put. Thus, it’s not a matter of convincing. Rather, a matter of convention of language and what the word means. And what and how it can be used.

The way I had proceeded was not ignoring the variance of person’s within Atheism, and even Agnosticism. However, since words have meaning. And, I so aptly put it this way:

Agnosticism of the meaning of indifference. Has been the underscoring problem of the modern century, which has increasingly become this way since, really, the Age of Enlightenment, to be frankly honest.

Again, this is a term, a word, and a definition that which the word has been used.

Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI had when as Cardinal, and even when he was the Pope. Directed to the society that does not want God. He pointed to this being problematic to the sexual abuse crisis being lent the hand of indifference towards God. Which he was also a subject under the Great War in Germany. He saw the fall of Germany, as a German himself. As a priest himself. In as much as Saint Pope John Paul II saw in Krakow. Parallel experiences.

Today is a world of moral relativism. And it is has gained its’ foothold in the meaningless of truth: there is your truth (subjective). And, there is my truth (subjective.) Which means there is no truth at all.

That is the Strange Case of the Atheist Believer. Because, in truth as most often Atheists describe the difficulty in believing in a Judeo-Christian God Who allows evil and suffering. Means, they would believe. But however, here are the hindrances. Even more so, many like Saint Thomas the Apostle, and even the blind man, want to really believe. They need the proof! Undoubting! Indispensable!

Are there Atheists who would forever hold to not wanting to believe in God at all? Sure. There are Germans who no less were Christians, would love the forever ignorance in believing the Holocaust was okay. Consequences come. If you forever will be obstinate to the Truth (Reality.) Then, like stumbling in the dark, you will bump into Reality. And suffer. Then, from there, you will learn why suffering exists. Because, evil exists. And yes, that is because sin entered into the world. Man chose in freewill to rob everyone of that grace.

Suffering is not necessarily a good. But it’s meant to be reality that man has fallen from grace. And by knowing that, does man hopefully seek what to be restored to as the Prodigal Son found his way back home. To the Truth. Hence, what the Atheist honestly seeks.
 
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Well, I think you need to get to know more atheists and agnostics and consider the whole concept of ‘belief’.

I’m a Jew who’s been around for quite a while and is often left wondering whether ‘belief’ means the same thing to different individuals, never mind different religions, never mind different belief structures altogether.

You seem to be playing the ‘strawman’ game of defining your opponent rather than listening to your opponent.

Great for convincing yourself, not so great for convincing others.
 
I don’t know any atheist that wants to believe.
Saint_Prince_Caspian said:
Agnosticism is the Nihilistic indifference of meaninglessness and nothingness.
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I don’t think it is. I define myself as agnostic, and it’s a position I’ve spent time considering. It currently reflects my thinking on religion, which is why I use it as a label. I don’t know if there is a God or not - that’s very different to saying agnostics are indifferent.
 
Kaninchen said:
You seem to be playing the ‘strawman’ game of defining your opponent rather than listening to your opponent.
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My opponent?

Moral relativism is my opponent. But the strange thing is since moral relativism means many things, arbitrary and subjective. That is a hard object or opponent to deal with.

Thus, all I can do is classify it by a culture.

In the Book of Revelation, Saint John on the Isle of Patmos. There was described the Harlot, the Beast, and the Dragon. These were apparitions of humanity in sin. And, the outcome of sin to it’s fullest extent, hence the mark of the Beast. Or as King Solomon had many wives! Which means moral relativist favor for the gift of Wisdom.

This could no less also be illustrated by a Tudor King of Germanic descent, King Henry VIII, who used divorce for in as much as any concubinage or harem. But to be frank, the process and doings of divorce still took process even in Law. Even though he bribed the Courts and Parliament to divorce anytime a woman wouldn’t bore him the child he wanted.

When man becomes a tyrant, even with the gifts God gives him. Even the King of England who was given the title: Defender of the Faith by the Pope. Even then, man becomes the beast. The mark of sin upon him in the fullest extent and fervor. Unrepentant.

Thus, this apparition of man being completely divorced from God and His Covenant is then lent to his own diabolical destruction just as the Serpent tended to take down a Third of the Stars and the Angels down with him in Revelation.

Hence, why I described this outcome today, as Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI had, Moral Relativism.

And, that maybe why belief in and of itself has different meanings to individuals. Thus, no truth at all.
 
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