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Rita77
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if you all don’t mind lets get off the kegel subject I think we all agree and thats a subject for another thread. lets talk periomenopause using nfp.
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Mary_Gail_36
New member
Are you finding that you are having longer mucus cycles and shorter post peak phases with perimenopause? We start making less estrogen so it affects mucus, we make less progesterone so it affects the post peak phase.
So I do see the irony, perimenopause causes us to be less fertile, but harder to p(name removed by moderator)oint when we are fertile. Also, miscarriage is a high risk for the perimenopausal, about 50 %. That risk of miscarriage for me is a serious consideration in deciding to avoid. I had 2, physically and emotionally recovering from the losses was hard. It affected my mothering my other children.(Mommy’s sad, and we don’t know why
)I don’t have any experience with Marquette, but maybe that would be a good option, it uses a monitior to p(name removed by moderator)oint ovulation.
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Rita77
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That describes my postpartum cycles too. I have just navigated through 7 + months and counting of long mucus patches and short post peaks. I can’t believe I’ve stuck it out with bf and didn’t quit just to get cycles back to normal, but I’m grateful for the experience with this kinds of cycles because I wanted to learn more about them for one I know there are common during menopause and I want to know how to use nfp during these cycles. With stm when I would have a long mucus patch as with any method I had to abstain until I got a thermal shift or a period or a few days with a closed cervix ,Anyway I think with the fertility monitor you could test if its more or less type mucus but its still a gamble nothings perfect.
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Rita77
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wait I think the monitor test hormone leavels not mucus type that would be more helpful
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Peggy_in_Burien
Guest
I will. I will also see if I can find some of the books, too.You keep me posted on what you find, I’ll post on what I find.We need to have more resources to share on how to handle this topic as it’s one that no one discusses or has easy advice on. And the lack of compassion I’ve seen from some people on these boards toward women/couples has left me even more upset. But then, I have to remind myself, in many cases, particularily the internet-- you really don’t know much about the person posting it and how authoritative they are. .
This maybe something I have to ask a priest about, too.
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Unsettled
Guest
I have thought about this issue (as well as that of a couple who shouldn’t allow a pregnancy in a certain phase of life) for the past ten years. I also was a strong advocate of NFP in my late 20s and 30s. But life sends you a curve ball and the perfect Catholic family doesn’t always happen nor does a healthy mom able to have more children.
After the birth of my second I wanted two more. Financial considerations put that off. Then my health began to decline as well as the relationship with my husband. He got a better job, but that didn’t make the relationship or health issues better. Result: not a good time to bring a new baby in the mix. Due to both, sex took a nose dive.
Relationship is better (don’t many of them go through this sort of cycle), health isn’t yet, AND I’ll be perimenopausal any time now (age 46). As sad as I am about it, there will be no more children. I can’t do it. Well, since some of my health problems involve female problems and issues in my abdomin, a pregnancy might well do me in, and I still have young teens to launch out into the world.
I’ve been ponding this for years. Isn’t sex supposed to be unitive and procreative? Once the procreative is past, shouldn’t we still be united as one with our husbands? I’ve heard a couple priest lecture on just this, yet the official church says NO. If you must avoid pregnancy, there can be no unitive. I’ve come to the conclusion that this just isn’t right. In addition to monitoring signs and working with your body, I think a back up plan shouldn’t be considered a grave moral issue (two methods at the same time are better than one).
On a side note: we have many Mormon acquaintances. Lots of them homeschool, send their kids to church school every morning before regular school, spend all day on Sunday with their family and do not brake sabbath, and have large families. Yet they have no trouble with birth control. They are strongly prolife, have prolife attitudes and feel called to family life (regardless of financial circumstances) yet use technology responsibly. Go figure!
After the birth of my second I wanted two more. Financial considerations put that off. Then my health began to decline as well as the relationship with my husband. He got a better job, but that didn’t make the relationship or health issues better. Result: not a good time to bring a new baby in the mix. Due to both, sex took a nose dive.
Relationship is better (don’t many of them go through this sort of cycle), health isn’t yet, AND I’ll be perimenopausal any time now (age 46). As sad as I am about it, there will be no more children. I can’t do it. Well, since some of my health problems involve female problems and issues in my abdomin, a pregnancy might well do me in, and I still have young teens to launch out into the world.
I’ve been ponding this for years. Isn’t sex supposed to be unitive and procreative? Once the procreative is past, shouldn’t we still be united as one with our husbands? I’ve heard a couple priest lecture on just this, yet the official church says NO. If you must avoid pregnancy, there can be no unitive. I’ve come to the conclusion that this just isn’t right. In addition to monitoring signs and working with your body, I think a back up plan shouldn’t be considered a grave moral issue (two methods at the same time are better than one).
On a side note: we have many Mormon acquaintances. Lots of them homeschool, send their kids to church school every morning before regular school, spend all day on Sunday with their family and do not brake sabbath, and have large families. Yet they have no trouble with birth control. They are strongly prolife, have prolife attitudes and feel called to family life (regardless of financial circumstances) yet use technology responsibly. Go figure!
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ColNY
Guest
Unsettled–you and I have almost identical bios on this issue.:hug3: I’m at a crossroads in which I’m doing more research (outside of CAF) from what is advised as the church’s position vs. what is considered an intrinsic evil. Even good friends of mine who have studied the church’s teaching on the subject extensively–particularily HV-- have different viewpoints on the subject. I’m thinking at this point, while I’ll continue with NFP, I feel as though this subject isn’t one I’m just taking what people who post on CAF claim to be Gospel truth as such. I think there are better authorities on the subject.
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Rita77
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**“any use whatsoever of matrimony exercised in such a way that the act is deliberately frustrated in its natural power to generate life is an offense against the law of God and of nature, and those who indulge in such are branded with the guilt of grave sin.” Pope Pius XI. **now if you understand NFP you know that most of the time you don’t convince and most days in your cycle arn’t fertile, NFP is about abstining during the fertile time and there for still open to life. God made our bodies work this way each cycle has a fertile and infertile time and NFP works with God’s plan. “Its ovious that a couple who engage in contraceptive behavior want to have sex during the fertile time of the woman’s cycle and yet avoid the divinely ordianed natural conseqences of such actions, so they take apart what God has put together.” John Kippley Birth Control and Christian Discipleship its only 40 pages and only $3 read it. OP do the right kind of research that will save your soul thats more important than avoiding pregnancy during pre menopause.
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Marie5890
Guest
Sooo understand your frustrations.
Looking practically at NFP and for a perimenopausal woman is going to cause a great deal of stress and frustrations.
That is very honest day to day reality.
I have found no answers to this point.
Looking practically at NFP and for a perimenopausal woman is going to cause a great deal of stress and frustrations.
That is very honest day to day reality.
I have found no answers to this point.
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Rita77
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its not easy to get to heaven and its not always easy to trust God. when I get to menopause I’m going to learn as much as posible about what my body is going trough and take natural aproach to it all. I would rather have menopause babies then commit mortal sin. have any of you actually tried to research nfp and menopause (I listed books in a pp) or are just researching how to justify contraception!!!
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SwizzleStick
Guest
I second that thanks. My age, and the associated changes that have come with it, now make celebrating our sacrament a bit more difficult for hubby and me, so I appreciate this thread.
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SwizzleStick
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I think I have to agree. It has become frustrating to try to figure out what is going on, but we take one day at a time.
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SwizzleStick
Guest
I plan to look for the books and appreciate your help in continuing to adhere to the teachings of Holy Mother Church. The idea of having a change-of-life baby is a scary one, though if that is what God has in mind, I would, of course, accept His plan. But, I’d like to try to avoid that, if at all possible while still being able to be intimate with my husband sometimes without having to wait a year or two or five. But, we’d accept that too if we have too. Sigh.
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Unsettled
Guest
Here’s the second half of the reason I starred having trouble with this reaching years ago ( after years of completely agreeing with it): if it is a sin to thwart the natural result of an act, and a person avoids the natural consequences of that act by any means, that person is guilty of sin. So we if believe that contraception is against the natural order of the act, we should always be open to the outcome. We should not time intercourse to avoid a more likely conception. If it’s going to be black and white it’s black and white. But I know that there is a whole line of logic which seeks to explain why it’s okay to use NFP to avoid pregnancy. Still, while I agree that a couple might have in the back of their head that conception is more likely with NFP (they shouldn’t ifthey’ve been well trained), they are still trying to avoid pregnancy.
I brought up this issue with a well-respected priest on a retreat once (and some other medically ethics teachings). He told me that I’m a thinker, which is a good thing, and thathe church is full of thinkers. They sit in meetings behind closed doors discussing and debating before arriving at a conclusion (far from unanimous) to tell the faithful. Change is not impossible on any issue as more facts and scholarship come to light. The important thing is Jesus and not lose faith (which, I have to admit, is hard the more I learn). He said nothing about mortal souls being lost over ones informed conscience guiding them down a particular path. Funny, the other three priests I brought these kind of issues to said the same… and they were from different towns. Hmmmmmm
I brought up this issue with a well-respected priest on a retreat once (and some other medically ethics teachings). He told me that I’m a thinker, which is a good thing, and thathe church is full of thinkers. They sit in meetings behind closed doors discussing and debating before arriving at a conclusion (far from unanimous) to tell the faithful. Change is not impossible on any issue as more facts and scholarship come to light. The important thing is Jesus and not lose faith (which, I have to admit, is hard the more I learn). He said nothing about mortal souls being lost over ones informed conscience guiding them down a particular path. Funny, the other three priests I brought these kind of issues to said the same… and they were from different towns. Hmmmmmm
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Rita77
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were the priest all in the same diocese some diocese are more faithful to the Church teachings than others. “everyone should be able to see that there is a world of difference between 1) doing something and then trying to evade the consequences of the action and 2) simply not doing anything.” John Kippley nfpandmore.org his writings converted the famous protestant evangelical Scott Hahn read birth control and christian disciprship
I think we can agree to disagree on the issue and when Nfp gets tuff during menopause I’ll learn more about it with NFP. I don’t give up when things get tuff I persevere.
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Unsettled
Guest
I’D like to know the ages of all contributing to this discussion. As I said before, I was in complete agreement when I was younger and thought I knew how I’d feel going through
about this issue during change of life, but with age came experiences, rhe experiences of my friends, and different insight.
about this issue during change of life, but with age came experiences, rhe experiences of my friends, and different insight.
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Rita77
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nfpandmore.org John and Sheila Kippley founded the couple to couple league in the 70’s so she has been through nfp and menopause. go to the link and e-mail her about it I bet she can help anywomen understand nfp during menopause she and her husband did dedicate 30+ and counting years to nfp. they both have writen many books and have many great writings on there sit and a blog. having a baby in my 40’s during premenopause wont devastate or embarrass me. my mom had me (#8) at 40. my mother in law had my husband (#9) at 43. my neighbor had her 10th at 48. I live in a very conservative faithful Catholic diocese. but you can avoid pregnancy with nfp alone during menopause just like you can when you are postpartum it may take more abstaince than your use to but it can be done. I’m use to abstaining for 30 days + or more my postpartum cycles are crazy. but if your not use to having to abstain more then a normal cycle (like postpartum) than it could be hard to get use to. same with crazy premenopause cycles I might be more use to it by than because of all the postpartum cycles I’ve had. I know many women who have avoided pregnancy using nfp alone during premenopause and menopause. our ages don’t matter I’m trying to help you find the tools to help you understand nfp and menopause. I may use the same info to help myself
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Rita77
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believe it or not there are more serious reason to avoid pregnancy than menopause your not the only ones with serious reason or crazy cycles. per menopause or menopuse isn’t a exuse to through out the Church teachings and contracept. yeah I know you already said you have serious reason beside menopause. there isn’t a age limit for nfp the teachings apply to everyone.
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Unsettled
Guest
Rita, what is your age?
Interestingly enough due to a few reasons we’ve abstained for many years now. I think that a reconnection in that way would be
positive to our relationship. I have regular cycles, but that will stop at anytime do to my age. Because of my health, if the small odds of NFP failure did not work on my favor I’d have to bash my head again a rock or theyd have to sedate me in hospital for months so i cant feel anything and do a section at 36 weeks, then we’d need a fulltime nanny (which we can’t afford… Don’t even know now to help kids with college after staying out or work to homeschool). A baby at 40 or 42 is entirely a different thing than a baby at 49. Believe me, your body feels very different at 46than it did just 4 years earlier. In fact, for disability purposes 47 is considered advanced age.
No, I highly doubt God is asking us to risk the rest of our life and our families happiness in order to be open to another child at in near retirement age. If he’s putting it in our hearts for another child, there are lots without families we can adopt. Wed likely be better parents too after having already been there. No need to risk our health and the emotional security of our teens who still need us in order to birth another
Interestingly enough due to a few reasons we’ve abstained for many years now. I think that a reconnection in that way would be
positive to our relationship. I have regular cycles, but that will stop at anytime do to my age. Because of my health, if the small odds of NFP failure did not work on my favor I’d have to bash my head again a rock or theyd have to sedate me in hospital for months so i cant feel anything and do a section at 36 weeks, then we’d need a fulltime nanny (which we can’t afford… Don’t even know now to help kids with college after staying out or work to homeschool). A baby at 40 or 42 is entirely a different thing than a baby at 49. Believe me, your body feels very different at 46than it did just 4 years earlier. In fact, for disability purposes 47 is considered advanced age.
No, I highly doubt God is asking us to risk the rest of our life and our families happiness in order to be open to another child at in near retirement age. If he’s putting it in our hearts for another child, there are lots without families we can adopt. Wed likely be better parents too after having already been there. No need to risk our health and the emotional security of our teens who still need us in order to birth another
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SwizzleStick
Guest
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