The sufficiency of Christ

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Ah… come on… you’re pulling my leg to conform to the Catholic view of baptismal regeneration. So, how long did you profess Christ before you were water baptised as a Protestant? I professed Christ at 18 years old, but was baptised as a professing believer in my late twenties. I also was baptised (not dedicated) as an infant in a Protestant Church.
I was baptised within one month of professing Christ. I went through a class and was then baptised.

If baptismal regeneration is not correct, how do we explain these verses:

John 3:5
Acts 2:38
Acts 22:16
Titus 3:5

and possible the strongest argument

1 Peter 3:19-21
 
The sovereignity of man in salvation? Only those who can humble themselves like a little child will be born from above? Does that seem very Pelagius to you sister? I think the Bishop of Hippo would be quite angry with your post. 😃
Really, Adam? If you have a problem with that concept then you have a problem with Jesus, for didn’t he say something about becoming like a little child? :hmmm:
 
Really, Adam? If you have a problem with that concept then you have a problem with Jesus, for didn’t he say something about becoming like a little child? :hmmm:
The way you interpert that verse will label you of being Pelagius, semi-Pelagius, or Augustinian. 😃
 
I was baptised within one month of professing Christ. I went through a class and was then baptised.

If baptismal regeneration is not correct, how do we explain these verses:

John 3:5
Acts 2:38
Acts 22:16
Titus 3:5

and possible the strongest argument

1 Peter 3:19-21
So, as a Protestant, would you say that you were unconverted, and sinner in the flesh, child of the darkness, and spirituality dead until you were baptised a month later by a Protesant Pastor who totally rejects baptismal regeneration? So, if you were not born from above after hearing and believing the gospel, but had to wait a month later… then how can you desire the things of God while still in the flesh? When did the Spirit of God dwell in you, when you heard and believed in the gospel, or after you were water baptized?
 
The way you interpert that verse will label you of being Pelagius, semi-Pelagius, or Augustinian. 😃
PRMerger, Adam has no shame in using ad hominems; No worry, sister, he’s called me about the same.
 
The way you interpert that verse will label you of being Pelagius, semi-Pelagius, or Augustinian. 😃
I’m just having fun with my sister in Christ, and at the same time challenging her to look deeper in the love of Christ. If I were a Catholic, I would be an Augustinian Catholic.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Good Catholic stuff!
 
So, as a Protestant, would you say that you were unconverted, and sinner in the flesh, child of the darkness, and spirituality dead until you were baptised a month later by a Protesant Pastor who totally rejects baptismal regeneration? So, if you were not born from above after hearing and believing the gospel, but had to wait a month later… then how can you desire the things of God while still in the flesh? When did the Spirit of God dwell in you, when you heard and believed in the gospel, or after you were water baptized?
My original sin was cleansed in baptism. It was God’s grace that allowed me to see Him and walk with Him.
 
FYI: Each thread has a 1000 post limit. Best make your arguments now before the thread gets closed in the next couple days.
 
If you take what the Apostles believed according to Sacred Scripture, your posting would not stand up to the light of Scirpture. What must I do to be saved was asked by the Philippian jailer. The Apostles’ answer to that most important question is recorded in Sacred Scripture - church history book known as the Acts of the Apostles, 😉
only if you take one scripture as you have done. Note that the jailer he and all his family were baptized at once.
Jesus commanded that the Apostles go and Baptize all nations.
 
I’m just having fun with my sister in Christ, and at the same time challenging her to look deeper in the love of Christ. If I were a Catholic, I would be an Augustinian Catholic.

http://www.prca.org/books/portraits/300px-Augustine_of_Hippo.jpg

Good Catholic stuff!
then please do brother 2nd. become an augustinian Catholic. although you may want to remember that in the city of God, he claimed all schisms and division were of the spirit of antichrist… so yes please join us.:D:grouphug:
 
then please do brother 2nd. become an augustinian Catholic. although you may want to remember that in the city of God, he claimed all schisms and division were of the spirit of antichrist… so yes please join us.:D:grouphug:
I am an Augustinian catholic already! 👍
 
only if you take one scripture as you have done. Note that the jailer he and all his family were baptized at once.
Jesus commanded that the Apostles go and Baptize all nations.
Of course they were baptised right after they were united to Christ by faith. I love household bapstisms!
 
Before or after your water baptism?
I was baptized when an infant in the Catholic Church. In my case, my catholic baptism did not give me any new life that I could hold on to, nor did the other sacraments I received through the church. My eyes were not opened by any means through the grace we were to receive through these sacraments. Instead, my love to practice sin grew stronger and stronger and dominated my will throughout my childhood and adult years.

Instead, what I did receive through the church, and am thankful for, is God’s Holy Law. As it was His commandments that eventually did their glorious work in me to slay me and condemn me to everlasting damnation.

My faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior came through the hearing of the Word of God which was prompted through my desperation of seeking forgiveness for all that I had done. It was then and through this experience that God opened my eyes to reveal His Son, Jesus Christ.

Through reading the Word of God, praying to Him, and searching for Him, there was an eventual trusting of the free gift that Jesus offered, because I was convinced that He was True. I came to believe that He was indeed the “Son of the Living God” and only He held the keys to everlasting life and the forgiveness of my sin through the shedding of His precious blood on the alter that His Father had prepared for Him.

The more I learned of Him, the more I saw Him endlessly Pure and Holy beyond any words can explain. Knowing this, and who I was, a sinful, undeserving, and unworthy beggar, I put my hand with His hand, and trusted Him for my salvation. You see, I knew I had nothing to offer before Him. I was condemned to eternal damnation before His righteousness and Holy law. So, mercy and grace is all that I can ever receive from Him.

Most importantly as I stated before, I knew who I was and my love for sin and therefore there was no reason to reach out for His hand if He were to leave me without the promise of His helping me. Else I would just return to the same lifestyle I was leading. Why enter into an agreement if you know that you are unable to fulfill your word?

I can say that He has remained faithful to me and through His promised spirit and the seed of an uncorrupted love in my heart for Him, He has lifted me out of the eternal damnation I deserved. Now He goes before me and proclaims me as an adopted son of the Most High and I proclaim Him as King and Savior of Heaven and Earth.

My testimony to you is that Jesus Christ is Alive, and “He IS”, and He sits on the heavenly throne to redeem sinners into His kingdom of everlasting life. This is as I understand the “Good News” of the Gospel.
 
I was baptized when an infant in the Catholic Church. In my case, my catholic baptism did not give me any new life that I could hold on to, nor did the other sacraments I received through the church. My eyes were not opened by any means through the grace we were to receive through these sacraments. Instead, my love to practice sin grew stronger and stronger and dominated my will throughout my childhood and adult years.

Instead, what I did receive through the church, and am thankful for, is God’s Holy Law. As it was His commandments that eventually did their glorious work in me to slay me and condemn me to everlasting damnation.

My faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior came through the hearing of the Word of God which was prompted through my desperation of seeking forgiveness for all that I had done. It was then and through this experience that God opened my eyes to reveal His Son, Jesus Christ.

Through reading the Word of God, praying to Him, and searching for Him, there was an eventual trusting of the free gift that Jesus offered, because I was convinced that He was True. I came to believe that He was indeed the “Son of the Living God” and only He held the keys to everlasting life and the forgiveness of my sin through the shedding of His precious blood on the alter that His Father had prepared for Him.

The more I learned of Him, the more I saw Him endlessly Pure and Holy beyond any words can explain. Knowing this, and who I was, a sinful, undeserving, and unworthy beggar, I put my hand with His hand, and trusted Him for my salvation. You see, I knew I had nothing to offer before Him, I was condemned to eternal damnation before His Holy law. So, mercy and grace is all that I can ever receive from Him.

Most importantly as I stated before, I knew who I was and my love for sin and therefore there was no reason to reach out for His hand if He were to leave me without the promise of His helping me. Else I would just return to the same lifestyle I was leading. Why enter into an agreement if you know that you are unable to fulfill your word?

I can say that He has remained faithful to me and through His promised spirit and the seed of an uncorrupted love in my heart for Him, He has lifted me out of the eternal damnation I deserved. Now He goes before me and proclaims me as an adopted son of the Most High and I proclaim Him as King and Savior of Heaven and Earth.

My testimony to you is that Jesus Christ is Alive, and “He IS”, and He sits on the heavenly throne to redeem sinners into His kingdom of everlasting life. This is as I understand the “Good News” of the Gospel.
very good, i read this on the saddened by a website thread. and i have answerd you. join me their?
 
I was baptized when an infant in the Catholic Church. In my case, my catholic baptism did not give me any new life that I could hold on to, nor did the other sacraments I received through the church. My eyes were not opened by any means through the grace we were to receive through these sacraments. Instead, my love to practice sin grew stronger and stronger and dominated my will throughout my childhood and adult years.

Instead, what I did receive through the church, and am thankful for, is God’s Holy Law. As it was His commandments that eventually did their glorious work in me to slay me and condemn me to everlasting damnation.

My faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior came through the hearing of the Word of God which was prompted through my desperation of seeking forgiveness for all that I had done. It was then and through this experience that God opened my eyes to reveal His Son, Jesus Christ.

Through reading the Word of God, praying to Him, and searching for Him, there was an eventual trusting of the free gift that Jesus offered, because I was convinced that He was True. I came to believe that He was indeed the “Son of the Living God” and only He held the keys to everlasting life and the forgiveness of my sin through the shedding of His precious blood on the alter that His Father had prepared for Him.

The more I learned of Him, the more I saw Him endlessly Pure and Holy beyond any words can explain. Knowing this, and who I was, a sinful, undeserving, and unworthy beggar, I put my hand with His hand, and trusted Him for my salvation. You see, I knew I had nothing to offer before Him. I was condemned to eternal damnation before His righteousness and Holy law. So, mercy and grace is all that I can ever receive from Him.

Most importantly as I stated before, I knew who I was and my love for sin and therefore there was no reason to reach out for His hand if He were to leave me without the promise of His helping me. Else I would just return to the same lifestyle I was leading. Why enter into an agreement if you know that you are unable to fulfill your word?

I can say that He has remained faithful to me and through His promised spirit and the seed of an uncorrupted love in my heart for Him, He has lifted me out of the eternal damnation I deserved. Now He goes before me and proclaims me as an adopted son of the Most High and I proclaim Him as King and Savior of Heaven and Earth.

My testimony to you is that Jesus Christ is Alive, and “He IS”, and He sits on the heavenly throne to redeem sinners into His kingdom of everlasting life. This is as I understand the “Good News” of the Gospel.
WOW… Rocket Man definitely Rocks… to the praise and glory to God alone!!!

Soli Deo gloria (“glory to God alone”)

http://www.x-plane.org/home/Foxbat/rocket man.JPG

I love Tweetymom and Rocket Man!
 
Since Benidict is one of my favorite brothers on Catholic Answers, I want to hear what he has to say and examine it within the thread topic of the sufficiency of Christ for him personally.

From the Sadden by a site thread.
i could ask the same question of you. how did I leave my former life. it wasnt through protestantism let me tell you. YOU SHALL KNOW THE TRUTH. AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE. the truth my friend is contained in the Church, and you will find like i did. that protesantism will not be adequate for the long haul. you may very well find yourself entangled in the very things you once hated once again. apparently from what ive read you are a lapsed Catholic. and you also know feelings and emotions are only going to get you so far. what happens when you have a crises in your protestant faith. what happens when the honeymoon is over? what happens when your protestant pastor does not have the answeres you need? i used to be just like you my friend. but you will find out the cold hard reality eventually. and you will have a choice to make. may take months, may take years. the pastors in the protestant churches have no authority. a Priest does. and that is the authority of Christ. furthermore the Church is where all the graces necessary to walk a Godly life are found. you have found a temporary fix to the problem of sin my friend. and im sure i have alot more stains on my soul than you will ever have. i will be praying for you. and peace be with you.:gopray:
 
There is a historic divide between Catholic theology and historic Protestant theology which is the heart of the gospel. Our historic divide which stands today is the biblical doctrine of justification.
True, I agree with that.
I don’t believe that the Catholic positon of justification is damnable, but I believe the Catholic view hinders the Catholic Chrisitan’s joy and affection for God in what He has done for us in Christ. Therefore, we are discussing the sufficiency of Christ as our only needed basis for eternal adoption through propitation (full atonement).
The expression “sufficiency of Christ” is ambiguous and misleading. The answer to that can be yes or no, according to which direction you want to take it. If by that you mean that Jesus did all that was required to save us, provided that we fulfill our part, the answer is yes. If by that you mean that Jesus by his Atonement saved us “in spite of ourselves,” the answer to that is no! From that point of view His Atonement was not sufficient to save us. Our own voluntary acceptance of that offering is also required for Him to save us.

For those who are interested (not you obviously, but others) the Book of Mormon has a verse that has a bearing on that, which is worth quoting:

Alma 12:

15 But this cannot be; we must come forth and stand before him in his glory, and in his power, and in his might, majesty, and dominion, and acknowledge to our everlasting shame that all his judgments are just; that he is just in all his works, and that he is merciful unto the children of men, and that he has ***all power ***to save every man that believeth on his name and bringeth forth fruit meet for repentance.

The Atonement is “sufficient” to save all those who believe and repent. But it is not “sufficient” for those who are not.
I think the remnant chosen by grace in our respective communities will grow in our love and affection for God. A measuring rod of being an elect is our growing love for God which is linked to a proper understanding of the person and work of Christ for us.
I don’t think that you are in a position to determine who is “saved” and who is not “saved;” and who is “elect” and who is not “elect”. You have no right to do that at all.
 
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