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2nd_Adam
Guest
Go back several posts and you will read the Scriptures for yourself on adoption and propitation.
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I
izoid
Guest
I actually like the doghouse.You just want out of my perpetual doghouse, don’t you?
Please realize that I have nothing against you personally. I just don’t give anyone a free pass.
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2nd_Adam
Guest
Thanks brother. ECT 1 and ECT II caused much tension in each other’s community. You had Evangelicals who rebuked and chastised Protestants who signed it. On the other hand, you had Catholics who rebuked and chastised Catholics who signed it.
Hey bro, do you think I should let Izoid and Zee out of my perpetual doghouse for the day?
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2nd_Adam
Guest
Okay, I have always considered you a brother, I will let you out of my perpetual doghouse for awhile. I can always put you back in there.I actually like the doghouse.
Please realize that I have nothing against you personally. I just don’t give anyone a free pass.
let’'s discuss theology and not make it about us personally.
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izoid
Guest
So Adam, do you renounce John MacArthur’s and James White’s anti Catholic teachings?
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zerinus
Guest
My Mormonism is his excuse. He puts on “ignore” anyone whom he cannot answer. He did the same thing to izoid, who is not a Mormon. He would have done the same to guanophore, except that he would look unbelievably stupid if he did! So he tries to shake him off in other ways, such as by being mean, and rude, and insulting. He won’t get rid of me that way though!hi z. i wonder just for grins and giggles, if you would have posted another religious preference, and not quoted out of doctrines and covenants, if 2nd, would have even guessed you were a mormon…:shrug:doubtful. peace be with you.
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PRmerger
Guest
Yet there is nothing there about it being a “yardstick” or “measure” of God’s love for us. You made that claim, did you not?
Still waiting, Adam…
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2nd_Adam
Guest
I find the link above interesting and maybe relevant to some Catholics who post on this thread. Protestants too have abused sola scriptura like those Catholics who abuse Magisterium alone.
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zerinus
Guest
Give us a link. This thread is moving fast, I can’t keep up with all the posts. I am going to have to log off in a minute, and when I come back there will be a hundred more posts to go through.
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PRmerger
Guest
I just hope your spouse does not put you in the doghouse for this: (best “doghouse” video EVER!)I actually like the doghouse.
Please realize that I have nothing against you personally. I just don’t give anyone a free pass.
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2nd_Adam
Guest
It’s just a figure of speech sister. So, how does God demonstrate His love for us? Do you also agree that God’s amazing love for us is revealed in the doctrine of propitiation and adoption? Who could know that God would justify the ungodly and the wicked (forgive them) on the basis in something that He has done to satisfy His divine justice, AND then adopt those previous ungodly wicked enemies into his home and makes them co-heirs with His Son Jesus Christ?
If you are a parent then imagine this. You are a judge and have found all the mass murder killers throughout history to be guilty of their hideous unspeakable crimes against humanity. You know justice has to be served for those crimes because you are a righteous moral judge. However, you are also a merciful judge. In fact you are more than a merciful judge, you are a gracious judge abounding in compassion and overflowing in love. You have a single son and decides to substitute your son in place of the mass murderers to bore the wrath and penalty for their crimes against humanity. Judgement day for justice has come, therefore, you punish your only son with the death penalty so the mass murderers can go free. Now you as the judge has served justice and applied mercy.
(The love of God through Propitiation)
God’s love does not stop there. The mass murder killers are released back into society and are legally free. In their current condition, you the judge decides to adopt all of the mass murders into your home and give them a legal adoption where they are now able to call you Father. They have complete rights to your entire estate which is the riches in the entire world. As your adopted children in their current evil condition, you plan on changing them from mass murders to the image of your one and only Son that you executed for their freedom. (The love of God through unconditional adoption).
When you understand adoption through propitation according to Scirpture, all we can do is fall to our knees and worship and praise God in what He has done for us wretched sinners like me and you!
:harp::harp::harp:
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izoid
Guest
Regarding your views on the sufficiency of Christ, do you feel that Christ’s death paid everything and that nothing else is needed for justification?
If so, what is true faith that activates salvation?
What happens when one walks with God for a period of time and then rejects God, is Christ’s death sufficient to keep that person saved?
How do you interpret James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
If so, what is true faith that activates salvation?
What happens when one walks with God for a period of time and then rejects God, is Christ’s death sufficient to keep that person saved?
How do you interpret James 2:24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
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PRmerger
Guest
Yes, I do. I don’t believe any Catholic here has said anything to the contrary. We are God’s adopted children.
Catholics, however, are also intimately joined to Him in the One Flesh Union.
I know that if I were unable to partake in this One Flesh Union, in my earthly marriage, or in my union with the Divine, my relationship would be lacking dearly. Imagine the difference between a close, unconsummated friendship, and the true marital love enjoyed between husband and wife. That’s the difference between those who enjoy a spousal relationship with God, and those who don’t.
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izoid
Guest
So God releases all of the vilent mass murderers back into society to offend again. SInce they have only been declared ritgheouss and not actually made righteouss wouldn’t that place society in great danger. Would these be the actions of a just God?
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Dancelittleewok
Guest
I’d encourage all Catholics not to answer any of Adam’s questions until he has answered ours.
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2nd_Adam
Guest
Justification demands justice and perfect sinless righteousness, does it not? Can we as sinner/saints provide what God demands to be justified? Scripture reveals that God justifies the ungodly and the wicked. On what basis does God justify the ungodly and the wicked?
The Holy Spirit activates salvation.
If someone rejects Christ and the gospel later in life and dies in that state, it is quite clear through Scirpture revelation that person was never born from above, never a child of God, and never justified. He is only a professor in Christ with a possession of a James 2 faith. He does not have the marks of a sinner who has been justified.
James 2:24 should be taken in context with the entire surrounding verses. It is a description of professors in Christ who do not possess true saving faith. It is a mental ascent without a conversion. Jesus speaks of the wheat and tares, sheep and goats… all in the visible church who profess Jesus Christ. We know through Scirpture that not all who have called Jesus Lord will enter the kingdom of God. Only His Sheep will enter the kingdom of God; those born from above by the Spirit of God.
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izoid
Guest
Are you saying that works play a part in faith?
We are saved by grace. Grace gives us the ability to have faith. Grace gives us the ability to have good works, love and charity as Pope Benedict put it. It is critical to have BOTH, not one or the other but both.
I know that is not the Protestant position but it seems to me that deep down it really is. You indicate that a man who falls away was never really saved. How do we know he has fallen away? Is it the absense of his works?
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PRmerger
Guest
I find this to be the most peculiar of arguments: “well, you were never really saved in the first place.”
What’s the point of this doctrine of salvation if one can be fooled into thinking you’re an adopted child of God, when, really, you’re only a “professor”?
Is there a way to tell which one you are at this very moment?
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izoid
Guest
I think you have asked a very omportant question, the answer of which is works. The Protestants will not call this works, they may call it fruits of your walk but it is none the less works.
It always troubled my soul when I thought works were not a part of salvation but the only way to judge my salvation was by my works.
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2nd_Adam
Guest
I think I have answered all the questions related to the thread topic. However, since this thread moves very fast, please re-post relevant thread topic questions again so I can answer them to the best of my ability. I ask for your patience since my participation on Catholic Answers needs better time management. I will sign off for the day and check later this evening if I can. I consider all orthodox Christians to be my siblings in Christ, and only God knows who are His true sheep. The remnant is found in all Christian branches (Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Anglican, etc). Adoption through Propitiation should leave all of us in a mindset of praising and worshipping God together as Catholic and Protestant siblings. Have a great day in the Lord siblings in Christ!
:knight1::slapfight::blackeye: :hug1::harp:- Status