The sufficiency of Christ

[izoid]

No I do not have a question and you are the one confused!

Whatever

Is there a reason that you are rude to your Catholic Brothers and sisters and supportive of the Protestants? I am new here and don’t know the history but your signature states you are a Catholic but your opinions are certainly more Protestant than they are Catholic.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Originally Posted by tweetymom
No I do not have a question and you are the one confused!

Whatever

Is there a reason that you are rude to your Catholic Brothers and sisters and supportive of the Protestants? I am new here and don’t know the history but your signature states you are a Catholic but your opinions are certainly more Protestant than they are Catholic.

Hey come on brother in Christ,

Catholic Christian great grandmas are off limits on my threads. :hug3: You are welcome to pick on me your Protestant brother in Christ instead. Give me a punch in the arm, I can take it. :blackeye: But please please leave dear Great Grandma Tweetymom alone. She’s 71 years old with such a deep love for our Lord Jesus Christ.

Do we need a timeout in the corner?

https://www.belladogga.com/images/products/dog_house/The_Cape_Dog_House_400p_x_300p(49).jpg

 

[zerinus]

Okay Guan,

You know the historic issues. Let’s stick with what caused the Protestant Reformation and our mutally exclusive views of justification. Are we justified by the perfect righteousness of Christ or not?

That depends on which scripture you are reading. According to Paul, apparently you are justified by faith, not works:

Romans 3:

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

But according to James, you are justified by works:

James 2:

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

James 2:

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

So how shall we reconcile this apparent discrepancy in the scriptures? That requires a careful reading of the Bible. A careful reading of Paul’s letters reveals that he was addressing those comments to those Gentile Christians who had come under the influence of certain Jewish converts to Christianity who believed that Gentile converts had to comply with all the rites and rituals of Judaism to be saved, including circumcision. In other word, they believed that Gentile converts to Christianity had to become Jews to be saved. What Paul was trying to say was that adherence to those ancient Jewish rites without faith in Jesus Christ was powerless to save someone. That is what he means by “works”. He didn’t mean that you don’t have to do anything to be saved! On the contrary, elsewhere he bluntly tells them that those who break the commandments of God are not saved:

1 Corinthians 6:

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[benidict]

That depends on which scripture you are reading. According to Paul, apparently you are justified by faith, not works:

Romans 3:

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

But according to James, you are justified by works:

James 2:

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

James 2:

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

So how shall we reconcile this apparent discrepancy in the scriptures? That requires a careful reading of the Bible. A careful reading of Paul’s letters reveals that he was addressing those comments to those Gentile Christians who had come under the influence of certain Jewish converts to Christianity who believed that Gentile converts had to comply with all the rites and rituals of Judaism to be saved, including circumcision. In other word, they believed that Gentile converts to Christianity had to become Jews to be saved. What Paul was trying to say was that adherence to those ancient Jewish rites without faith in Jesus Christ was powerless to save someone. That is what he means by “works”. He didn’t mean that you don’t have to do anything to be saved! On the contrary, elsewhere he bluntly tells them that those who break the commandments of God are not saved:

1 Corinthians 6:

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

hi z. i think this is a great reason to have others over us so we can reconcile these kind of passages that “seem” to be contrdictory. dont you? peace

 

[benidict]

Hey come on brother in Christ,

Catholic Christian great grandmas are off limits on my threads. :hug3: You are welcome to pick on me your Protestant brother in Christ instead. Give me a punch in the arm, I can take it. :blackeye: But please please leave dear Great Grandma Tweetymom alone. She’s 71 years old with such a deep love for our Lord Jesus Christ.

Do we need a timeout in the corner?

https://www.belladogga.com/images/products/dog_house/The_Cape_Dog_House_400p_x_300p(49).jpg

we will have to strongly agree here brother 2nd. everybody be gracious to our elders. God bless you tweety mom. ok everybody deep breath iiiiiiin deep breath ouuuuut! there dont we feel better? peace.

 

[tweetymom]

I believe that the burning love in my heart for our Savior, Christ Jesus was a gift.

Amen Rocket man!

 

[izoid]

Hey come on brother in Christ,

Catholic Christian great grandmas are off limits on my threads. :hug3: You are welcome to pick on me your Protestant brother in Christ instead. Give me a punch in the arm, I can take it. :blackeye: But please please leave dear Great Grandma Tweetymom alone. She’s 71 years old with such a deep love for our Lord Jesus Christ.

Do we need a timeout in the corner?

https://www.belladogga.com/images/products/dog_house/The_Cape_Dog_House_400p_x_300p(49).jpg

I certainly meant no disrespect. If I offended you Tweety, I apologize.

When someone posts on a board such a this they are anonymous. We do not know age, gender, race, personal situations or anything that allows us to take personal considerations into account when posting. We must only reply to someones word.

With that said, I have to say that age does not allow someones beliefs to go unchallenged when discussing apologetics. If someone is prepared to post in this thread or any thread on this site their postings will be scrutinized.

Again, I will be more sensitive with Tweety as I now know who it is that I am speaking with.

 

[guanophore]

Adam also stated, “I love John MacArthur” in an earlier post.

I am hard on Adam because I cannot get a feel for who he really is, I think I know however! One the one hand he preaches ecumenism and then on the other he supports MacArthur and James White. He even links to articles written by them and encourages Catholics to read them. I tend to accept people based on what they do and not what they say!

Well, ok, I sit corrected. It seems that my first memory was the correct one. It is frightening to realize that 2nd thinks so highly of such a man. It says a lot.

2nd is a very passionate Reformed Evangelical who believes that he can play a role in drawing others closer to God. One cannot really support that he is here “evangelizing”, since he believes that God has already saved those He wants to save. He does, however, want to locate who those saved persons are, so that he can help them to grow in their love and affection for God.

I think he is genuinely looking for ways to reach Catholics - to find common ground. He believes there is a “remnant” of “true believers” int he Catholic Church and believes he can locate them by sharing Truth. I am sure he will correct me if I am not right about this.

 

[benidict]

Well, ok, I sit corrected. It seems that my first memory was the correct one. It is frightening to realize that 2nd thinks so highly of such a man. It says a lot.

2nd is a very passionate Reformed Evangelical who believes that he can play a role in drawing others closer to God. One cannot really support that he is here “evangelizing”, since he believes that God has already saved those He wants to save. He does, however, want to locate who those saved persons are, so that he can help them to grow in their love and affection for God.

I think he is genuinely looking for ways to reach Catholics - to find common ground. He believes there is a “remnant” of “true believers” int he Catholic Church and believes he can locate them by sharing Truth. I am sure he will correct me if I am not right about this.

hi guanaphore, have had some really good pm with him. hes completely different when its one on one, as im sure you know. i agree he does want to find common ground. and on some things, he and i can. im sure youve found this to be the case also. he knows we are not going to budge, and we know hes not going too.lol! but he does come up with some thought provoking questions. and great threads, look how long this one has gone on.love in Christ:thumbsup:

 

[guanophore]

Okay, I have always considered you a brother, I will let you out of my perpetual doghouse for awhile. I can always put you back in there. let’'s discuss theology and not make it about us personally.

Hmmm…it seems that the “perpetual” doghouse is not really perpetual after all. Maybe one’s name can be blotted out of the book of life, as well?

 

[PRmerger]

I am an Augustinian catholic already!

Really? :extrahappy:

Then you believe this:

“But I would not believe in the Gospel, had not the authority of the Catholic Church already moved me.”
St. Augustine, Contra epistolam Manichaei, 5,6L 42,176.

Since you said it’s all about authority and justification, now that you’re understanding the authority of the CC, you’re one step closer, Adam! Getting ready to welcome you at the Marriage Feast of the Lamb, dear brother!

 

[guanophore]

The Holy Spirit activates salvation.

Yes, He does. However, it is our faith, mixed with His grace that results in salvation.

Or, do you think it is not possible for men to reject God’s purpose for themselves?

  If someone rejects Christ and the gospel later in life and dies in that state, it is quite clear through Scirpture revelation that person was never born from above, never a child of God, and never justified.  He is only a professor in Christ with a possession of a James 2 faith.  He does not have the marks of a sinner who has been justified.

I am sure that you read scripture that way, but since we read it under the authority of the Apostolic Teaching, we understand that those people are one of the 2/3 of the sprouted seeds that did not come to fruition.

 

[PRmerger]

Whatever

Is there a reason that you are rude to your Catholic Brothers and sisters and supportive of the Protestants? I am new here and don’t know the history but your signature states you are a Catholic but your opinions are certainly more Protestant than they are Catholic.

Indeed. I have never seen a post, tweety, in which you affirm a Catholic who voices opinions in union with the Magisterium.

You do seem to save your for anyone who says, in essence, “Jesus, I disagree with you on _________”

In your defense, I think you want to welcome non-Catholics here—a worthy and charitable venture.

However, you take quite personally any admonitions given to you about “truth in advertising”. We’re just asking you to do the honorable thing.

 

[Rocket_Man]

Or, do you think it is not possible for men to reject God’s purpose for themselves?

I believe it is possible for us to reject God’s purpose. It happen’s everyday and sometimes last years and years. In the very end it is He that draws you back. Your always an adopted Son with a loving Father who does whatever necessary to keep you. That is His promise.

For whom the LORD loves He reproves, Even as a father corrects the son in whom he delights.

As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore

For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

 

[benidict]

I believe it is possible for us to reject God’s purpose. It happen’s everyday and sometimes last years and years. In the very end it is He that draws you back. Your always an adopted Son with a loving Father who does whatever necessary to keep you. That is His promise.

For whom the LORD loves He reproves, Even as a father corrects the son in whom he delights.

As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore

For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

hi rocket man. josephe stalins last act was to sit up in his death bed and shake his fist at the creator. joseph stalin was a seminarian. joseph stalin was one of the most ruthless dictators the world has ever known. apparently he knew God at one point then went his own way. read execution by hunger. what he did to the ukrainian people. read how he would take his enemies and grind them up into hamburger and serve them as a barbeque to his guest. again read about his last act of defiance. here is a man that in his heart believed, at one point was on the road to heaven. it was his CHOICE at the end to reject the Creator. not the other way around. even the devils believe and tremble. but in the end it does them no good. peace be with you.

 

[guanophore]

We know God’s work of positional justification will always follow of making His justified and redeemed children into the image of His Son… to the praise of His glorious transforming grace.

It is certainly clear that this is His intention for us, but some people reject His purpose for themselves.

Jesus was clear that most of the seeds that sprout do not persist to bring forth fruit.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Why does everyone want to talk about Calvinism when this thread is about the sufficiency of Jesus Christ, or adoption through propitation? It was predetermined beforehand that all you Catholic siblings would be on this thread learning that Christ is sufficient for me and you since we are united to Christ by faith. I bet you never thought the Pope would agree with Martin Luther with faith alone either. :bounce: Check out this new translation:

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, there is neither Catholic nor Protestant, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 3:28

:grouphug:

 

[2nd_Adam]

Really? :extrahappy:

Then you believe this:

“But I would not believe in the Gospel, had not the authority of the Catholic Church already moved me.”
St. Augustine, Contra epistolam Manichaei, 5,6L 42,176.

Since you said it’s all about authority and justification, now that you’re understanding the authority of the CC, you’re one step closer, Adam! Getting ready to welcome you at the Marriage Feast of the Lamb, dear brother!

Help me out, what choices did Augustine have in the year 386? Was it between being Catholic and Orthodox, east verses the west? Do you believe Augustine could fit in with 21st century Catholic theology?

 

[Dancelittleewok]

Help me out, what choices did Augustine have in the year 386? Was it between being Catholic and Orthodox, east verses the west? Do you believe Augustine could fit in with 21st century Catholic theology?

Have you read The Confessions by St. Augustine? St. Augustine details his journey from paganism to Manchieanism (a heretical sect) to Catholicism. Do you truly think that a man whom converted from heresy would leave Catholicism for more heresy?

Regardless, the burden of proof that St. Augustine would be a Protestant is still unanswered and unproven from you.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Have you read The Confessions by St. Augustine? St. Augustine details his journey from paganism to Manchieanism (a heretical sect) to Catholicism. Do you truly think that a man whom converted from heresy would leave Catholicism for more heresy?

Regardless, the burden of proof that St. Augustine would be a Protestant is still unanswered and unproven from you.

The Protestant proof is in this quote. Augustine would not just be any Protestant; he definitely be would be a Protestant Calvinist too. :whacky:

“The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth; I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine. John Knox’s gospel is my gospel. That which thundered through Scotland must thunder through England again.”—C. H. Spurgeon