"The sufficiency of Grace" a continuation of "The sufficiency of Christ" family debate.

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In the old days, that was the 2nd or 3rd most read book by Protestants next to the Bible. Another old classic read by Protestants was Pilgrim’s Progress. The Foxe’s Book of Martyrs is a wonderful book for all to read!

amazon.com/Foxs-Book-Martyrs-MobileReference-ebook/dp/B001QAP300/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259770910&sr=8-3
I also found that the famous Book of Martyrs, written by John Foxe, a sixteenth-century apostate Catholic, was historically inaccurate. Many of the “martyrs” in the reign of Mary Tudor were unorthodox and would have been burned in the reign of Protestant Queen Elizabeth. Indeed, Foxe supported a regime that tortured and killed Catholics who simply wanted to live in the faith of their ancestors. He also supported a regime that burned Evangelical Christians such as Baptists! It was Protestant Christians who had persecuted the Puritan Pilgrim Fathers of seventeenth-century England, and that group in turn, on settling in America, had persecuted fellow Bible believers!
From source

You aren’t gonna find many friends here by endorsing this book. It does, however, explain your misconceptions about the Church.
 
From source

You aren’t gonna find many friends here by endorsing this book. It does, however, explain your misconceptions about the Church.
The bottom line, the visible church struggles with sin and is made up of sheep and goats in great need of the Lord Jesus Christ. We as Christian siblings should proclaim Jesus Chrsit and His gospel to ourselves everyday, and proclaim Jesus Christ and His glorious gospel to each other. Here’s a novel idea for 21st Christianity: “Let’s proclaim Christ to Christians!” so we can all rejoice in the Lord Jesus Christ together!

:signofcross::knight1::hug1::harp:
 
And once again thank you elvis, I feel full in Jesus everytime you and others insult me. You do not hurt my feelings only make me glory in our King, Rememger Pro. 13:3 He who guards his lips guards his soul.
**Oh – they’re not insults, just observations from a faithful Catholic who cannot abide false teaching:

Proverbs 25:18** - Like a club or a sword or a sharp arrow is the man who gives false testimony against his neighbour.**

**Proverbs 14:5 **- A truthful witness does not deceive, but a false witness pours out lies.

Proverbs 19:5** - A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who pours out lies will not go free.**
 
I will ignore you since you continue to abuse a 71 year old Catholic Great grandma who loves the Lord Jesus Christ out of protest of your unchrist-like behavior to a sister in Christ.

Don’t let others devour Tweetymom!
No, you’ll ignore me because I pose questions to you that you can’t answer.
You STILL have yet to prove this false idea of an “invisible Church”.


As for your accusation of my being “unchrist-like”, Scripture calls on me too judge rightly – and it appears that I have.
 
Wow. I didn’t know that, elvis! 👍

That does indeed put a little bit of a wrinkle into some anti-Mary Calvinists’ theology, doesn’t it!
Okay, now do you understand that Mary is part of the discussion of the fall, the depravity of mankind, Adam as our representative, etc. Did Adam represent Mary in the fall in regards to federal headship? If not, did Mary need Jesus Christ as Savior? If not, is Mary united to Christ? For me, the invisible church (body of Christ) consists of all sinners who have been redeemed by Christ throughout redemptive history (OT and NT saints alike). I believe in the remnant church, all who have been chosen by God who are saved by grace. If Mary was sinless, how can she be part of the remnant saved by grace?
Could someone please answer my questions above?
 
No, you’ll ignore me because I pose questions to you that you can’t answer.
You STILL have yet to prove this false idea of an “invisible Church”.

As for your accusation of my being “unchrist-like”, Scripture calls on me too judge rightly – and it appears that I have.
I will ignore you since you continue to abuse a 71 year old Catholic Great grandma who loves the Lord Jesus Christ out of protest of your unchrist-like behavior to a sister in Christ.

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Don’t let others devour Tweetymom!
 
I think the way you continue to tread Tweetymom in an un-Christ like manner, you should be invisible to us.
Boy Adam, you sure have changed over the past few weeks. You came here under the idea of promoting ecumenism and have degraded to unwarranted personal attacks. Why are you so angry? Is it not possible to answer peoples questions without the hostility?
 
Wow. I didn’t know that, elvis! 👍

That does indeed put a little bit of a wrinkle into some anti-Mary Calvinists’ theology, doesn’t it!
Yup - it’s all a matter of history - for the ones who aren’t afraid to study it . . .
 
Could someone please answer my questions above?
I encourage you to use the search feature above for Immaculate Conception and/or Mary or you could create a thread. While Mary is an important issue for all Christians, this isn’t the thread topic and Adam has used this to distract from his explanation of the Centurion, mainly how his exegesis reveals the anti-Catholicism in it:

2nd Adam:
Good morning and let’s discuss the entire account of Cornelius. We need to go from Acts 10:1 through 11:18. You will find so much anti-Catholic Theology in those passages, that you will be sorry that you wanted to discuss Cornelius.
 
Boy Adam, you sure have changed over the past few weeks. You came here under the idea of promoting ecumenism and have degraded to unwarranted personal attacks. Why are you so angry? Is it not possible to answer peoples questions without the hostility?
Well, I think Christians should come to support Tweetymom when she is attacked. We need to put the wisdom of 1 Cor 13 first and foremost in our debates. Apologetics will end up inflaming the flesh that remains in all of us if we lose focus that apologetics should be done as an act of worship.
 
No, you’ll ignore me because I pose questions to you that you can’t answer.
You STILL have yet to prove this false idea of an “invisible Church”.

As for your accusation of my being “unchrist-like”, Scripture calls on me too judge rightly – and it appears that I have.
It is curious how Adam feels we are un Christ like when we evaluate ones beliefs but he is doing the same thing to ALL of us. Food for thought!
 
Could someone please answer my questions above?
Your statement is VERY telling because you begin with, “For me . . .” or “I believe . . .
It is abundantly clear that you make up your own rules as you do.


As for Mary’s sinlessness - one ancient analogy used by the Early Church about Mary’s Immaculate Conception is this:
God saves us out of the mud of sin, whereas Mary was saved before she was able to fall into the puddle in the first place.
 
Well, I think Christians should come to support Tweetymom when she is attacked. We need to put the wisdom of 1 Cor 13 first and foremost in our debates. Apologetics will end up inflaming the flesh that remains in all of us if we lose focus that apologetics should be done as an act of worship.
When Tweeymom stops misrepresenting the Church she will no longer be admonished. However, Scripture requires me to admonish those who do wrong. It is an act of love.
**(Luke 17:3, Timothy 5:20, James 5:20) **
 
YUP - so did the early Reformers - along with her perpetual virginity and veneration of her.

My question to Protestants is WHY don’t you guys believe in the same things your founders believed in??
I definitely believe in the virgin birth, scripture clearly says it.

immaculate conception? I disagree based on scripture

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

You’re saying Jesus justified her before she had anything she needed to be justified a.k.a SIN

which according to Scripture doesn’t hold up.​

perpetual virginity? I haven’t found scriptures that would lead me to dogmatically accept or reject this view but I’m inclined to believe she remained a virgin.​

P.S. Calvin didn’t believe in the immaculate conception from what I’ve read about… if you have sources that show otherwise please do share.
 
It is curious how Adam feels we are un Christ like when we evaluate ones beliefs but he is doing the same thing to ALL of us. Food for thought!
I think he attributes the un-Christ likeness in how you approach the individual in which you evaluate…imo
 
Adam, I’m waiting for your exegesis of the Centurion.
Guan is the one who wanted to disscuss Cornelius. I’m not sure what he wants to discuss about it, but I gave him a reference to the entire account in which we can discuss. We can also include the other Centurion account with Jesus who had great faith. I really don’t know what Guan wants to discuss about the two Centurions, because when you go through Acts 10 through 11, it really refutes quite a bit of Catholic theology. So, let’s wait for Guan to lead us through the two Centurions, okay?
 
Guan is the one who wanted to disscuss Cornelius. I’m not sure what he wants to discuss about it, but I gave him a reference to the entire account in which we can discuss. We can also include the other Centurion account with Jesus who had great faith. I really don’t know what Guan wants to discuss about the two Centurions, because when you go through Acts 10 through 11, it really refutes quite a bit of Catholic theology. So, let’s wait for Guan to lead us through the two Centurions, okay?
Izoid and I both asked you as well. Plus, this is an online forum, meaning he can check in and see what you wrote. 🙂
 
**Oh – they’re *not ***insults, just observations from a faithful Catholic who cannot abide false teaching:

Proverbs 25:18** - Like a club or a sword or a sharp arrow is the man who gives false testimony against his neighbour.**

**Proverbs 14:5 **- A truthful witness does not deceive, but a false witness pours out lies.

Proverbs 19:5** - A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who pours out lies will not go free.**
Everytime you insult me you are insulting Jesus, So God Bless. And everytime you point a finger at me you have 3 on your hand pointed back at ya
 
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