The Suicide of Europe

[steve93]

Do you realize your thinking resulted in the Holocaust. Disgusting.

Huh? How.
Voltire was a Jew? The Muslims are secretly Jews?! I’m not following your line of reason.

 

[TheTrinitySaves]

Huh? How.
Voltire was a Jew? The Muslims are secretly Jews?! I’m not following your line of reason.

The jews are responsible for our problems in 1939. Now it’s the Muslims and you’re calling for genocide agaisnt them.

 

[steve93]

The jews are responsible for our problems in 1939. Now it’s the Muslims and you’re calling for genocide agaisnt them.

I am calling for genocide?!
Well if that’s the case than being for a free and united Ireland is advocating for a “council of blood” against protestants.
Your problems in 1939 were related to stabbing tanks with spears. The evil rabbis must have put a curse on the blades and softened them. (sarcasm)
Look at a map of Christendom in 500AD, 1000AD, 1500AD, and now. You will see the Islamic onslaught depicted clearly.
This animation makes it very clear.
youtube.com/watch?v=I_To-cV94Bo

 

[TheTrinitySaves]

I am calling for genocide?!
Well if that’s the case than being for a free and united Ireland is advocating for a “council of blood” against protestants.
Your problems in 1939 were related to stabbing tanks with spears. The evil rabbis must have put a curse on the blades and softened them. (sarcasm)
Look at a map of Christendom in 500AD, 1000AD, 1500AD, and now. You will see the Islamic onslaught depicted clearly.
This animation makes it very clear.
youtube.com/watch?v=I_To-cV94Bo

What you say is not logically sound. Your “Christendom” was initially spread through forced conversion, killing, and mass rape of local europeans who were not yet christians. I am as agaisnt Islam spreading, but to claim that muslims are infestations, because they are not christian like us is not only false but disgusting. The same logic was applied to the Jews in the holocaust.

 

[steve93]

What you say is not logically sound. Your “Christendom” was initially spread through forced conversion, killing, and mass rape of local europeans who were not yet christians. I am as agaisnt Islam spreading, but to claim that muslims are infestations, because they are not christian like us is not only false but disgusting. The same logic was applied to the Jews in the holocaust.

Christian mass murder of who? Are you taking about the medieval battles with the last pagan holdouts in Lithuania and such?

 

[TheTrinitySaves]

Well said

 

[steve93]

I have at least 50% Irish blood.
“Council of blood” is a term protestants use to refer to Spanish atrocities in the Netherlands in the 16 and 17th centuries. I’m sure your familiar with the Dutch revolts, House of Orange, the Inquisition, etc. I meant that asserting that terming standing against an invader to be advocating for genocide of said invaders religion, race, etc is absurd.
These spurious charges are brought when any European Christian dares stand against Islamic conquest. Consider the historical smear campaign against the great Prince Vlad Drac and those who joined him in sacrifice.

 

[TheTrinitySaves]

I have at least 50% Irish blood.
“Council of blood” is a term protestants use to refer to Spanish atrocities in the Netherlands in the 16 and 17th centuries. I’m sure your familiar with the Dutch revolts, House of Orange, the Inquisition, etc. I meant that asserting that terming standing against an invader to be advocating for genocide of said invaders religion, race, etc is absurd.
These spurious charges are brought when any European Christian dares stand against Islamic conquest. Consider the historical smear campaign against the great Prince Vlad Drac and those who joined him in sacrifice.

Are you European or American?

 

[steve93]

Are you European or American?

American, 99% European (exception one Iroquois indian in the nineteen century).

 

[steve93]

The fact remains, however, that the conquest of Europe is an ultimate goal of Islam.
You can see this even in what people regard as being truly Christendom. They have accepted the shrunken lands as the “new normal” and have legitimized the jhad in their minds. Hardly any area, once falling to Islamic conquest, has ever been retaken for Christianity.

 

[phil19034]

What you say is not logically sound. Your “Christendom” was initially spread through forced conversion, killing, and mass rape of local europeans who were not yet christians. I am as agaisnt Islam spreading, but to claim that muslims are infestations, because they are not christian like us is not only false but disgusting. The same logic was applied to the Jews in the holocaust.

Hold on… That is NOT true. The Catholic faith was NOT spread by forced conversions, killing and mass rape.

Ireland for example was converted by St. Patrick himself. There was no army, etc. Christendom spread and grew rapidly because early Christians actually practiced the religion. Also, many pagan rituals were brutal, so it was easy for many to see the appeal of Christianity. And when they finally learned the Gospel, it was easy for them to convert.

In Mexico, 8 million Aztecs were converted in 8 years due to Our Lady of Guadalupe. Yes, there were some missionaries and a local bishop, but it wasn’t enough. The conversions happened because Jesus Christ appeared inside His mother’s womb to Juan Diego and left proof.

The Blessed Mother appeared many times throughout European history too to assist with the conversion of souls.

There is no credible evidence of Christians having wars to force convert non-Christians. However, there were missionary efforts before or after invasions. But the main purpose of any war was secular, not evangelical.

And the Crusades were purely defensive, to fight back against the onslaught of attacks against the Christians by the Muslims (who were more advanced in every way compared to Europe until after the discovery of the Americas.

There was a lot of Protestant propaganda created against Catholic Spain in the 17th and 18th centuries which which account for a lot of this. Plus, there were many enlightenment historians like Voltaire, etc who had a habit of recording history through modern lenses, without understanding why the people in the middle ages did what they did.

I highly recommend the following CDs:

lighthousecatholicmedia.org/store/title/understanding-the-crusades?promoCode=104867

lighthousecatholicmedia.org/store/title/fire-sword-crusades-inquisition-reformation?promoCode=104867

shop.catholic.com/catholic-cds/the-real-story-of-the-crusades-set.html

shop.catholic.com/catholic-cds/the-real-story-of-the-inquisition-set.html

shop.catholic.com/catholic-cds/the-real-story-of-the-reformation-set.html

 

[TheTrinitySaves]

American, 99% European (exception one Iroquois indian in the nineteen century).

You are not irish steve. Claiming you’re irish heritage as authority for your statements is wrong. If you had spent substantial amounts of time in ireland you would be aware that the current culture is nothing like you describe.

 

[TheTrinitySaves]

Hold on… That is NOT true. The Catholic faith was NOT spread by forced conversions, killing and mass rape.

Ireland for example was converted by St. Patrick himself. There was no army, etc. Christendom spread and grew rapidly because early Christians actually practiced the religion. Also, many pagan rituals were brutal, so it was easy for many to see the appeal of Christianity. And when they finally learned the Gospel, it was easy for them to convert.

In Mexico, 8 million Aztecs were converted in 8 years due to Our Lady of Guadalupe. Yes, there were some missionaries and a local bishop, but it wasn’t enough. The conversions happened because Jesus Christ appeared inside His mother’s womb to Juan Diego and left proof.

The Blessed Mother appeared many times throughout European history too to assist with the conversion of souls.

There is no credible evidence of Christians having wars to force convert non-Christians. However, there were missionary efforts before or after invasions. But the main purpose of any war was secular, not evangelical.

And the Crusades were purely defensive, to fight back against the onslaught of attacks against the Christians by the Muslims (who were more advanced in every way compared to Europe until after the discovery of the Americas.

There was a lot of Protestant propaganda created against Catholic Spain in the 17th and 18th centuries which which account for a lot of this. Plus, there were many enlightenment historians like Voltaire, etc who had a habit of recording history through modern lenses, without understanding why the people in the middle ages did what they did.

I highly recommend the following CDs:

lighthousecatholicmedia.org/store/title/understanding-the-crusades?promoCode=104867

lighthousecatholicmedia.org/store/title/fire-sword-crusades-inquisition-reformation?promoCode=104867

shop.catholic.com/catholic-cds/the-real-story-of-the-crusades-set.html

shop.catholic.com/catholic-cds/the-real-story-of-the-inquisition-set.html

shop.catholic.com/catholic-cds/the-real-story-of-the-reformation-set.html

380, was the establishment of Christianity as the official religion of the empire. Christianity became an imperialistic religion borne by armies and would remain so for more than a thousand years following Rome’s collapse.

 

[steve93]

380, was the establishment of Christianity as the official religion of the empire. Christianity became an imperialistic religion borne by armies and would remain so for more than a thousand years following Rome’s collapse.

Of course there was propaganda, but northern Europe did what they had to. Their’s was a fight of national liberation from the Mediterranean powers and a final revolution against Roman (“Holy Roman Empire”) rule. The rise of Lutheranism was purely pragmatic.
I don’t deny that there existed an alliance between the Protestants and the Turks, but that’s what they had to do. Same as Finland took aid from Nazi Germany against the invading CCCP. Convenience.

 

[phil19034]

380, was the establishment of Christianity as the official religion of the empire. Christianity became an imperialistic religion borne by armies and would remain so for more than a thousand years following Rome’s collapse.

No. This is propaganda. It is not true.

Even after the Church became the official religion of the Empire, the Church did NOT force conversions. Nor did the Roman Empire.

The Roman Empire always had different religions inside it, and that continued to be the case after the official religion changed from Jupiter, etc to Jesus Christ.

A lot of people converted because they saw the truth in Christianity, not because of wars.

Christianity did NOT expand the same way Islam did. The idea that Christianity spread due to war is 100% false because the Church never forced conversions to the unbaptized and it was always considered sinful to do so.

The only time there was secular violence was in defence against the Muslims and against baptized heretics. But the Crusades NEVER had the goal of conversion. It was not the goal of the Crusades to convert the Muslims by force. It was to protect Christians who were living in Muslim lands, protect Christians traveling to the Holy Land, to protect Constantinople, to fight back the Moors constant attack and invasion of Spain & Portugal, to defend Muslims attacking Italy, Greece, France, Austria, Hungary, etc.

And the secular violence against heretics was very complicated and usually out of necessity.

If you have specific examples of what you believe to be forced conversions, please list them. Because I’m certain whatever examples you have are either completely false or misunderstandings.

God Bless

 

[steve93]

No. This is propaganda. It is not true.

Even after the Church became the official religion of the Empire, the Church did NOT force conversions. Nor did the Roman Empire.

The Roman Empire always had different religions inside it, and that continued to be the case after the official religion changed from Jupiter, etc to Jesus Christ.

A lot of people converted because they saw the truth in Christianity, not because of wars.

Christianity did NOT expand the same way Islam did. The idea that Christianity spread due to war is 100% false because the Church never forced conversions to the unbaptized and it was always considered sinful to do so.

The only time there was secular violence was in defence against the Muslims and against baptized heretics. But the Crusades NEVER had the goal of conversion. It was not the goal of the Crusades to convert the Muslims by force. It was to protect Christians who were living in Muslim lands, protect Christians traveling to the Holy Land, to protect Constantinople, to fight back the Moors constant attack and invasion of Spain & Portugal, to defend Muslims attacking Italy, Greece, France, Austria, Hungary, etc.

And the secular violence against heretics was very complicated and usually out of necessity.

If you have specific examples of what you believe to be forced conversions, please list them. Because I’m certain whatever examples you have are either completely false or misunderstandings.

God Bless

There was definitely forced conversion going on in Latin America.

 

[PluniaZ]

380, was the establishment of Christianity as the official religion of the empire. Christianity became an imperialistic religion borne by armies and would remain so for more than a thousand years following Rome’s collapse.

Not trying to gang up on you since I appreciate the kind tone you are bringing to this xenophobic thread, but it is worth considering that the Roman Empire was just about finished in 380. The Visigoths sacked Rome just 30 years later, and the western Empire was gone completely within 100 years. BUT, the Holy Roman Pontiff was such as blessed man that he quickly went to work converting the Arian tribes of Europe one by one, all peacefully and without force … he couldn’t use force since they had huge armies and he did not.

As for the rest of the thread, Christians should be rejoicing that Muslims are becoming our neighbors and we can now convert them face to face … just like all the above mentioned barbarian tribes were converted.

Plus, Christianity is thriving in Asia, Africa and South America. God knows what He is doing.

 

[steve93]

Not trying to gang up on you since I appreciate the kind tone you are bringing to this xenophobic thread, but it is worth considering that the Roman Empire was just about finished in 380. The Visigoths sacked Rome just 30 years later, and the western Empire was gone completely within 100 years. BUT, the Holy Roman Pontiff was such as blessed man that he quickly went to work converting the Arian tribes of Europe one by one, all peacefully and without force … he couldn’t use force since they had huge armies and he did not.

As for the rest of the thread, Christians should be rejoicing that Muslims are becoming our neighbors and we can now convert them face to face … just like all the above mentioned barbarian tribes were converted.

Plus, Christianity is thriving in Asia, Africa and South America. God knows what He is doing.

Rejoice at the Muslim conquest of Fortress Europa!? Do you depend on Afghanistan for the opium which you are clearly high on?

 

[phil19034]

There was definitely forced conversion going on in Latin America.

Nope. Not really. Maybe a few people here and there by soldiers, but in general no.

There were not enough Spanish in Latin America to force conversions.

The MAJORITY of the conversions in Latin America happened due to Our Lady of Guadeloupe. Word of Our Lady of Guadeloupe didn’t just convert Mexico, but converted natives all over South America too.

 

[phil19034]

There was definitely forced conversion going on in Latin America.

Nope. Not really. Maybe a few people here and there by soldiers, but in general no.

There were not enough Spanish in Latin America to force conversions.

The MAJORITY of the conversions in Latin America happened due to Our Lady of Guadeloupe. Word of Our Lady of Guadeloupe didn’t just convert Mexico, but converted natives all over South America too.

Plus, Queen Isabella and King Ferdinand were very devout Catholics. Queen Isabella has been granted the title of “Servant of God,” obedience to the Church was very important to her.

And honestly, the Spanish in Latin America were more obsessed with fighting among themselves than focused on forced conversions. The Spanish in Mexico alone attempted to assassinate the local Bishop and the governor 2 years before Our Lady of Guadeloupe appeared. The local Bishop sent a letter to King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella staying that unless God interceded, that the new land was going to be morally lost. In answer to that prayer, Jesus sent his Blessed Mother.

God Bless