The Tablecloth at The Last Supper?

[_SunShine]

I don’t know if this has ever been discussed before, but I was watching Mother Angelica yesterday and she had authorities on the Shroud of Turin as guests who suggested that perhaps the burial cloth of Jesus was really the tablecloth used at The Last Supper.

Did anyone catch this program? What are your thoughts?

 

[thistle]

~SunShine~:

I don’t know if this has ever been discussed before, but I was watching Mother Angelica yesterday and she had authorities on the Shroud of Turin as guests who suggested that perhaps the burial cloth of Jesus was really the tablecloth used at The Last Supper.

Did anyone catch this program? What are your thoughts?

Did people use tablecloths 2000 years ago?

 

[_SunShine]

thistle:

Did people use tablecloths 2000 years ago?

According to these experts they did. One of them was a Jewish convert to the Church, (I wish I could remember their names), but I thought it might make an interesting thread to discuss especially for those who did see the program or have studied this.

 

[thistle]

~SunShine~:

According to these experts they did. One of them was a Jewish convert to the Church, (I wish I could remember their names), but I thought it might make an interesting thread to discuss especially for those who did see the program or have studied this.

Re your original post it doesn’t make sense to me for it to have been a tablecloth. Why would there be an image of the crucified Christ on a tablecloth? It makes much more sense for it to have been a burial cloth.

 

[Kotton]

thistle:

Re your original post it doesn’t make sense to me for it to have been a tablecloth. Why would there be an image of the crucified Christ on a tablecloth? It makes much more sense for it to have been a burial cloth.

The theory is the tablecloth was used as the burial cloth, so He was wrapped in it and therefore contains His image. Not sure why they would not have cloth for the burial, but we do know that it was a hurried burial because of the time of day before the Sabboth.

Kotton

 

[_SunShine]

thistle:

Re your original post it doesn’t make sense to me for it to have been a tablecloth. Why would there be an image of the crucified Christ on a tablecloth? It makes much more sense for it to have been a burial cloth.

I guess I didn’t make it clear, the authorities on the Shroud theorize that it was first used at The Last Supper and then in the haste of burying Jesus before sundown, they used it as the burial cloth/the Shroud. they even showed stains on it that might possibly be wine stains (though they haven’t yet been able to examine it yet for that). This program was essentially talking about their studies of the Shroud and this theory was an aside. I was just wondering what others who saw the program thought of it. I found it a fascinating concept.

 

[VociMike]

Kotton:

The theory is the tablecloth was used as the burial cloth, so He was wrapped in it and therefore contains His image. Not sure why they would not have cloth for the burial, but we do know that it was a hurried burial because of the time of day before the Sabboth.

Kotton

That is an intriguing notion. That tablecloth would have really been an altar cloth, given that Jesus offered His Sacrifice upon it. I think it would have been very fitting for it to also be His burial shroud.

 

[_SunShine]

VociMike:

That is an intriguing notion. That tablecloth would have really been an altar cloth, given that Jesus offered His Sacrifice upon it. I think it would have been very fitting for it to also be His burial shroud.

Exactly! This is one of the reasons that I found it so interesting.

 

[contemplative]

This thread reminds me of an Italian song popularized by Lou Monte…Lazy Mary

*Lazy Mary you better get up" *
*She answered back, “I am not able” *
*“Lazy Mary you better get up *
*We need the sheets for the table” *
*“Lazy Mary you smoke in bed *
*There’s only one man you should marry *
*My advice to you would be *
*Is to pay attention to me” *
*"You better marry a fireman he’ll come and go, *
Go and come sempr’s la pompa a mano tiene

I don’t believe a table cloth from the Last Supper was used as Jesus’ burial cloth. :nope:

 

[_SunShine]

contemplative:

This thread reminds me of an Italian song popularized by Lou Monte…Lazy Mary

*Lazy Mary you better get up" *
*She answered back, “I am not able” *
*“Lazy Mary you better get up *
*We need the sheets for the table” *
*“Lazy Mary you smoke in bed *
*There’s only one man you should marry *
*My advice to you would be *
*Is to pay attention to me” *
*"You better marry a fireman he’ll come and go, *
Go and come sempr’s la pompa a mano tiene

I don’t believe a table cloth from the Last Supper was used as Jesus’ burial cloth. :nope:

Well, if you look in the light of it as being the Altar Cloth at the First Mass it does.
I have to say I find that song you posted quite offensive as well since the whole thread is in reference to Our Lord.

 

[VociMike]

~SunShine~:

Exactly! This is one of the reasons that I found it so interesting.

Right. The same cloth upon which His Body was broken and His Blood poured, then would hold His broken Body and poured-out Blood.

 

[contemplative]

~SunShine~:

Well, if you look in the light of it as being the Altar Cloth at the First Mass it does.
I have to say I find that song you posted quite offensive as well since the whole thread is in reference to Our Lord.

Actually I was first to find it offensive that someone suggested that a tablecloth was used as Jesus’ burial cloth.

 

[_SunShine]

contemplative:

Actually I was first to find it offensive that someone suggested that a tablecloth was used as Jesus’ burial cloth.

Not when it was suggested that it was indeed an Altar Cloth, my dear.

 

[contemplative]

And when it was evening, there came a certain rich man of Arimathea, named Joseph, who also himself was a disciple of Jesus.

And Joseph taking the body wrapped it up in a clean linen cloth:

And laid it in his own new monument, which he had hewed out in a rock. And he rolled a great stone to the door of the monument and went his way. ( Matthew 27:57, 59-60)

Considering that Joseph of Arimathea was a rich man and that Jesus had is own new monument…I doubt very much that Joseph said " go get me the table cloth that was used at passover supper a few nights ago". I imagine that Joseph wrapped Jesus in a clean linen cloth. Not a cloth with food and wines stains.

 

[_SunShine]

contemplative:

And when it was evening, there came a certain rich man of Arimathea, named Joseph, who also himself was a disciple of Jesus.

And Joseph taking the body wrapped it up in a clean linen cloth:

And laid it in his own new monument, which he had hewed out in a rock. And he rolled a great stone to the door of the monument and went his way. ( Matthew 27:57, 59-60)

Considering that Joseph of Arimathea was a rich man and that Jesus had is own new monument…I doubt very much that Joseph said " go get me the table cloth that was used at passover supper a few nights ago. Joseph wrapped Jesus in a clean linen cloth. Not a cloth with food and wines stains.

It is only a theory. I was asking for (name removed by moderator)ut and I thank you for it.

 

[contemplative]

But…if you want to talk about the traditional Passover tablecloth…here is an interesting article…

Drip before You Sip*****

 

[_SunShine]

contemplative:

And when it was evening, there came a certain rich man of Arimathea, named Joseph, who also himself was a disciple of Jesus.

And Joseph taking the body wrapped it up in a clean linen cloth:

And laid it in his own new monument, which he had hewed out in a rock. And he rolled a great stone to the door of the monument and went his way. ( Matthew 27:57, 59-60)

Considering that Joseph of Arimathea was a rich man and that Jesus had is own new monument…I doubt very much that Joseph said " go get me the table cloth that was used at passover supper a few nights ago". I imagine that Joseph wrapped Jesus in a clean linen cloth. Not a cloth with food and wines stains.

Matthew is the only one who refers to it as clean:
Mark 15: 43-46

“ 43

Joseph of Arimathea, a distinguished member of the council, who was himself awaiting the kingdom of God, came and courageously went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus.

44

Pilate was amazed that he was already dead. He summoned the centurion and asked him if Jesus had already died.

45

And when he learned of it from the centurion, he gave the body to Joseph.

46

Having bought a** linen cloth**, he took him down, wrapped him in the linen cloth and laid him in a tomb that had been hewn out of the rock. Then he rolled a stone against the entrance to the tomb.” (Doesn’t say clean).

Luke 23: 50-53

“50

Now there was a virtuous and righteous man named Joseph who, though he was a member of the council,

51

had not consented to their plan of action. He came from the Jewish town of Arimathea and was awaiting the kingdom of God.

52

He went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus.

53

After he had taken the body down, he wrapped it in a linen cloth and laid him in a rock-hewn tomb in which no one had yet been buried.” (Doesn’t say clean).

John 19: 38-40

38

“After this, Joseph of Arimathea, secretly a disciple of Jesus for fear of the Jews, asked Pilate if he could remove the body of Jesus. And Pilate permitted it. So he came and took his body.

39

Nicodemus, the one who had first come to him at night, also came bringing a mixture of myrrh and aloes weighing about one hundred pounds.

40

They took the body of Jesus and bound it with burial cloths along with the spices, according to the Jewish burial custom.” (Doesn’t say clean).

(All references taken from The New American Bible.)

 

[thistle]

~SunShine~:

Matthew is the only one who refers to it as clean:
Mark 15: 43-46

“ 43

Joseph of Arimathea, a distinguished member of the council, who was himself awaiting the kingdom of God, came and courageously went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus.

44

Pilate was amazed that he was already dead. He summoned the centurion and asked him if Jesus had already died.

45

And when he learned of it from the centurion, he gave the body to Joseph.

46

Having bought a** linen cloth**, he took him down, wrapped him in the linen cloth and laid him in a tomb that had been hewn out of the rock. Then he rolled a stone against the entrance to the tomb.” (Doesn’t say clean).

Luke 23: 50-53

“50

Now there was a virtuous and righteous man named Joseph who, though he was a member of the council,

51

had not consented to their plan of action. He came from the Jewish town of Arimathea and was awaiting the kingdom of God.

52

He went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus.

53

After he had taken the body down, he wrapped it in a linen cloth and laid him in a rock-hewn tomb in which no one had yet been buried.” (Doesn’t say clean).

John 19: 38-40

38

“After this, Joseph of Arimathea, secretly a disciple of Jesus for fear of the Jews, asked Pilate if he could remove the body of Jesus. And Pilate permitted it. So he came and took his body.

39

Nicodemus, the one who had first come to him at night, also came bringing a mixture of myrrh and aloes weighing about one hundred pounds.

40

They took the body of Jesus and bound it with burial cloths along with the spices, according to the Jewish burial custom.” (Doesn’t say clean).

(All references taken from The New American Bible.)

But you agree that Joseph of Aramathea brought the burial cloth. He wasn’t at the last supper so why would he have had the tablecloth??

 

[contemplative]

~SunShine~:

Matthew is the only one who refers to it as clean:
39
Nicodemus, the one who had first come to him at night, also came bringing a mixture of myrrh and aloes weighing about one hundred pounds.

My Bible quotation was taken from the Douay-Rheims Bible.

Did you know that 100 pounds of aloe and myrrh was a substantially great amount and a costly amount?

With that in mind…
I still do not believe that Joseph of A. asked for a table linen that was used a couple days prior to Jesus’ death.

 

[T.A.Stobie_SFO]

I have heard this discussed a few times.

This theory comes from the following discoveries about the shroud.

(1) It is more finely plied than burial clothes were at the time, like a fine table cloth.

(2) wine and food stains were found on the shroud.

and maybe considering

(1) The Lamb of God who died on the cross was served during the last Supper in the form of bread and wine.