The Ten Commandments

[I_Leatherman]

Again, the commandment is “THOU SHALT NOT MAKE ANY GRAVEN IMAGE; THOU SHALT NOT BOW THYSELF BEFORE THEM OR SERVE THEM.”

How is bowing before statues of Saints “NOT” idolatry? Regardless if a person believes it houses a god or not does not make the violation go away; just bowing before a graven image violates the 2nd commandment.

I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;

you shall have no other gods before me.

You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
You shall not bow down to them or worship them

The subject of all of this is; ‘a material idol which you treat and believe to be a real god’.

You would not bow and worship something if you did not believe it to be god.
If bowing as an objective act was forbidden I could see you welding yourself to a backbrace so you could not accidently bend. To break the bowing law it is sufficient only that a third party sees you bending in front of some material object, whether it is a Japanese man, bending to pick up a dollar, tie your shoes, bow your head to pray - watch out there might be something in front of you.

 

[b_justb]

Quid pro quo Christianity? I have to ask why you even said that? Is it your way of getting the last word in? I simply quoted the Scripture, and you are rejecting it. That is your “free will” choice, but remember that there are consequences that comes with your choices.

In the name of Jesus,

Ken

I don’t reject Scripture, please keep that kind of stuff out of it thank you very much.

Quid pro quo Christianity is exactly what is says. “This-for-that Christianity.” The idea of, “I do this so God must do that” is not The Way.

 

[BlestOne]

Greetings,

Didn’t the Catholic church combine two commandments into one, and divide a commandment into two so that they still have ten commandments?

The two commandments that the Catholic church combined are the first two commandments, which are…

Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

and

Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, nor shall thou bow thyself before them or worship them.

…and the one commandment that the Catholic church divided is the last commandment, which is…

Thou shalt not covet.

…the Catholic church divided the last commandment into two parts making their last two commandments read as such…

1. Thous shalt not covet thy neighbors wife.
2. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors goods.

…these two commandments can be summed up into one commandment, which is “THOU SHALL NOT COVET.” This would cover both the wife and the goods.

In the Marine Corps, we had a saying: “Out of sight, out of mind” and this saying worked great for escaping nonsense work details. Well, let’s look at the commandment that is out of sight, out of mind on the Catholic lay-out of the ten commandments…

Exodus 20:4-6 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

…many Catholics (though this will be argued against without doubt) commit idolatry not knowing that what they are doing is wrong. After all, how wrong can it be having a statue of Jesus? Well, according to Scripture, it is VERY wrong! Note what the Scripture says…

“Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above…”

Is Jesus in heaven above? Yes! Are not statues images of Jesus? Yes! According to Scripture is it allowed by God to make statues of Jesus? Absolutely not! It is forbiden as the Scripture says “THOU SHALT NOT…”

My grandpa used to have a saying; “people in glass houses shouldn’t cast stones.” I say that because before any Protestant says amen, they need to be warned that they too may be committing idolatry. Crosses inside any church is as graven as the statues inside Catholic churches. You may say, we don’t worship the cross the same way the Catholics worship statues. But think about that the next time you hear the preacher say, come kneel at the foot of the cross.

In the name of Jesus,

Ken

Ken,
There are several things misunderstood in the post above. First of which is that the Catholic Church DID NOT change the 10 commandments. Hello… which came first the Catholic Church or those who protested them? Second, the Bible did not come numbered, that was added at a later date…much later so please don’t tell us that it is in the numbering… Third, I am a wife and I am so totally offended that you would consider me on the same level as a horse or a car or anything else that one would covet.

Not that those things were the only problems I saw in your post. Idolatry is the worshiping of inanimate objects . That would mean that the worshipper thinks that these things are a God themselves… Nobody I know worships crosses or statues. We do however use them as one would use a picture to remember… to remember that Christ did make the ultimate sacrifice, that Mary did say yes to the Lord… and those are things that we remember when we see a crucifix or a statue. We certainly do not worship them!

 

[dosdog]

If we were to number every “command” in those sections of the Bible we would have about 17 commandments or more

There is no numerical division of the Commandments in the Books of Moses, but the injunctions are distinctly tenfold, and are found almost identical in both sources. The order, too, is the same except for the final prohibitions pronounced against concupiscence, that of Deuteronomy being adopted in preference to Exodus
newadvent.org/cathen/04153a.htm

 

[IamOdd4God]

Ken,
There are several things misunderstood in the post above. First of which is that the Catholic Church DID NOT change the 10 commandments. Hello… which came first the Catholic Church or those who protested them? Second, the Bible did not come numbered, that was added at a later date…much later so please don’t tell us that it is in the numbering… Third, I am a wife and I am so totally offended that you would consider me on the same level as a horse or a car or anything else that one would covet.

Not that those things were the only problems I saw in your post. Idolatry is the worshiping of inanimate objects . That would mean that the worshipper thinks that these things are a God themselves… Nobody I know worships crosses or statues. We do however use them as one would use a picture to remember… to remember that Christ did make the ultimate sacrifice, that Mary did say yes to the Lord… and those are things that we remember when we see a crucifix or a statue. We certainly do not worship them!

The apostle Paul said: “I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.” (Romans 7:7). The word lust simply means to have a longing for or to desire. You can be longed for and desired for just as much as a car or a horse, offended or not, that is the truth.

And as far as not committing idolatry… What God has commanded is that we are not to “MAKE” any graven image. A graven image is any item that is used for the purpose of worship. And we are “NOT” to “BOW” down before them “OR” (not and) “SERVE” them. Bowing to the statues, icons etc. alone is idolatry. My suggestion is to heed the words of the apostle John who wrote by inspiration of God…

1John 5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

Want to enter eternal life? Obey the commandments (Matthew 19:16-17).

In the name of Jesus,

Ken

 

[IamOdd4God]

Ken,
There are several things misunderstood in the post above. First of which is that the Catholic Church DID NOT change the 10 commandments. Hello… which came first the Catholic Church or those who protested them? Second, the Bible did not come numbered, that was added at a later date…much later so please don’t tell us that it is in the numbering…

In regards to the statement that the Catholic church did not change the Ten Commandments, and asking which came first, the Catholic church or those who protested them? Allow me to ask you a question: Which came first, the Scriptures or the Catholic church?

The Scriptures came before the Catholic church, therefore how do you know that the Catholic church did not change the Ten Commandments? Because they said so right? Well now who can argue against that?

Second, the Bible came numbered; it was the Scriptures that didn’t come numbered. Now, the Catholic church being the only true church they claim to be takes great pride in taking credit for putting together the canons. Therefore, that means the Catholic church numbered the Bible when they translated it from the original manuscripts. Therefore, did they mistakenly number the passages of Scripture?

In the name of Jesus,

Ken

 

[Milliardo]

The Scriptures came before the Catholic church, therefore how do you know that the Catholic church did not change the Ten Commandments? Because they said so right? Well now who can argue against that?

It’s not only because the Church said so, but it can be seen in Catholic Bibles itself; there are no changes at all.

Second, the Bible came numbered; it was the Scriptures that didn’t come numbered.

Sorry, the Bible never came numbered. Numbering the verses and chapters only came later. Even after the canon was compiled in Hippo and Carthage, it was never numbered.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Ken,

In regards to the statement that the Catholic church did not change the Ten Commandments, and asking which came first, the Catholic church or those who protested them? Allow me to ask you a question: Which came first, the Scriptures or the Catholic church?

That’s simple - the Church.

The Church was founded by Jesus Christ. The Scriptures were written some time after Christ’s Ascension into heaven.

The Scriptures came before the Catholic church, therefore how do you know that the Catholic church did not change the Ten Commandments? Because they said so right? Well now who can argue against that?

No, they didn’t came before the Church. But regardless of that, we know that She didn’t change the commandments because we have ancient versions of the scriptures and so we can easily compare them.

Second, the Bible came numbered; it was the Scriptures that didn’t come numbered.

Not at all. The Bible was numbered later on for easier referencing. However the numbers in the Bible number the verses and not the individual commandments. If they would number the commandments then there aren’t 10 of them but 15 (Exodus 20:2-17 or Deuteronomy 5:6-21).

Now, the Catholic church being the only true church they claim to be takes great pride in taking credit for putting together the canons. Therefore, that means the Catholic church numbered the Bible when they translated it from the original manuscripts. Therefore, did they mistakenly number the passages of Scripture?

As I explained above, the numbers don’t number the individal commandments.

God bless!
~G

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Ken, can I please ask you to read this article? newadvent.org/cathen/07664a.htm

God bless,
~G

 

[Grateful4mercy]

This whole ‘image’ concept seems a little flimsy to me. I live in a subdivision, there is a house around the corner that looks just like mine. I built my house first, so the house around the corner is an IMAGE AND LIKENESS of mine. I should probably burn it down, eh?

The whole idol thing revolves around the hearts of men, and since the last time I checked you were NOT part of the God Head I doubt you can read them very well. But you’re in luck because there is a very simple way to test to this concept. Destroy the idol and read the persons reaction. Do they think you just killed their gods? Or are they just mad because you ruined a nice piece of artwork?

Let’s put your own heart to the test. I have an extra bible laying around my house. Today I will take it outside, smear it with feces and set it on fire. Does that bother you? It shouldn’t even raise your eyebrow, it’s a BOOK. There are millions of copies. It kind of cracks me up a little that the early Church gets accused of burning bibles, as if they were dancing around the fire chanting and celebrating their victory over God or something

Now before I get hate mail, I’m not really going to do it. And I know I am causing a scandal by even suggesting it. I have high reverence for the Word of God, but the Word is not ink on a page. That’s the point I am trying to make.

Where your heart is, there is your god. That sums up the first and last commandments pretty well, don’t you think?

 

[rayne89]

Again, the commandment is “THOU SHALT NOT MAKE ANY GRAVEN IMAGE; THOU SHALT NOT BOW THYSELF BEFORE THEM OR SERVE THEM.”

How is bowing before statues of Saints “NOT” idolatry? Regardless if a person believes it houses a god or not does not make the violation go away; just bowing before a graven image violates the 2nd commandment.

Ah yes another non-Catholic who tells Catholics what we believe, do and think. Here is the Catholic teaching on idolatry from the Cathecism of the Catholic Church.

Idolatry
[2112](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2112.htm’) The first commandment condemns polytheism. It requires man neither to believe in, nor to venerate, other divinities than the one true God. Scripture constantly recalls this rejection of “idols, [of] silver and gold, the work of men’s hands. They have mouths, but do not speak; eyes, but do not see.” These empty idols make their worshippers empty: "Those who make them are like them; so are all who trust in them."42 God, however, is the "living God"43 who gives life and intervenes in history.
[2113](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2113.htm’) Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship. It remains a constant temptation to faith. Idolatry consists in divinizing what is not God. Man commits idolatry whenever he honors and reveres a creature in place of God, whether this be gods or demons (for example, satanism), power, pleasure, race, ancestors, the state, money, etc. Jesus says, "You cannot serve God and mammon."44 Many martyrs died for not adoring "the Beast"45 refusing even to simulate such worship. Idolatry rejects the unique Lordship of God; it is therefore incompatible with communion with God.46 2114 Human life finds its unity in the adoration of the one God. The commandment to worship the Lord alone integrates man and saves him from an endless disintegration. Idolatry is a perversion of man’s innate religious sense. An idolater is someone who "transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything other than God."47